Pressing a Muslim Reformation

[CopyBoy]

How many times since 9/11 – when nearly 3,000 Americans were killed by radical Muslims – have we asked each other where the moderate Muslims are? Where are the imams denouncing the violence committed in the name of Islam? We asked the same after the attacks on the Little Rock recruiting office, after Fort Hood, after the Islamic State group beheadings of Americans overseas. After the Boston Marathon bombing and Mumbai and Madrid and London and Paris. After San Bernardino.

You’d never know it from the media, but Muslim leaders have denounced terrorism committed in the name of Islam over and over again. Apparently covering terrorist attacks drives more ratings than reporting on press conferences afterward – so the media doesn’t bother. It’s not surprising that many Americans have come to believe that perhaps there just are no moderate Muslims.

usnews.com/news/the-report/articles/2015-12-18/yes-moderate-muslims-do-denounce-terrorism-though-the-media-ignores-it

 

[Latias]

usnews.com/news/the-report/articles/2015-12-18/yes-moderate-muslims-do-denounce-terrorism-though-the-media-ignores-it

You should remember that there is no Islamic Vatican that could speak for the entire Ummah.You should also know that the Ummah comprises of people around the world, in environments that do not have the liberal political culture and institutions of the West.

Asking for a “reformation”, as in a change of Islamic theology, favorable to the West, is analogous of expecting the Vatican to denounce US foreign policy in 1980s, when so many Catholics were anti-communist. Many Muslims would likely feel aggrieved about the effect of Western foreign policy in Middle East, and such a “reformation” would alienate them if if would downplay those grievances, even if most of those who harbor those grievances would realize pragmatically that terrorist attacks would not accomplish strategically significant objectives or garner sympathy for their cause.

I will not say that Islam is a religion of peace, but it does seem that there many sensible Muslims who could see some benefits of living in a liberal democracy that emphasizes the value of tolerance and civil liberties.

 

[MiserableSinner]

Muslims need to be converted to the Catholic Church in order to do the will of God. Let’s work on converting them for the salvation of their souls. It’s what Jesus wants.

 

[McCartney]

Robert Spencer in one of his videos said that reform was impossible because to reform would be to go against the Koran. Some have tried but were put to death.

Do you know that Iran is becoming Christian. Jesus is appearing to Muslims and converting them to Christianity.

 

[KathleenGee]

I look at the history of that region of the world and it seems more and more to me that Islam fit the mentality and passion of these people.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

I don’t think it’s possible to “reform” what was from the start a religion anti-thetical to our Christian notions of what a religion should be. What we want is to remake islam in the image of Christianity and in that Muslims cease to be muslims in the full sense of the word.

There is no hope of remaking islam from the west, it needs to be done in the middle east. Muslims will need to die for it like protestants and Catholics died for it in Europe, it cannot happen overnight but over decades.

 

[Starwarsfan2]

I would argue that one already is happening, called Moderate Islam , it just needs time to gain traction, but ultimately the gospel is better than an Islamic reform .

 

[arthra]

There is a good summary of Muslims activities denouncing terrorism and for them it is a distortion and misrepresentation of their religion…

See:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_attitudes_towards_terrorism

Following the incident of December 2nd in San Bernardino Ca. I attended two memorial services at Mosques in the area that thoroughly rejected the terroristic acts.

 

[TheAtheist]

There is no hope of remaking islam from the west, it needs to be done in the middle east. Muslims will need to die for it like protestants and Catholics died for it in Europe, it cannot happen overnight but over decades.

If that’s the case then its not going to happen…simply because the Muslims who would be interested either in Reform or Liberalization or what have you tend to flee their countries for places where the rule of Law is a little more certain.

A perfect example that comes to mind - if your Homosexual and you wish to maintain your faith identity as a Muslim… then your either heading to America, Europe, or even Israel…because your not going to be openly tolerated anywhere else in the Muslim world.

Now that’s a dramatic example, but it drives home the point.

There aren’t going to be any “reform” movements in the Muslim world, because those who would support it prefer to actually leave that behind and go to a place like America, or heck even Russia and China where they can practice as they please without having to deal with the authorities.

 

[DebChris]

I watched a video on Al Jazeera which stated that a Muslim Reformation is exactly what Islam does not need.
The Al Jazeera Upfront video further reminded viewers about the violence that accompanied the Christian Reformation. Islam is already in the midst of such a Reformation was the opinion of the Muslim scholar featured. What is really needed is a counter Reformation, a “Council of Trent.”

 

[KathleenGee]

Al Jazeera needs reformation. It is not good in my mind because of its agenda…world domination of Islam.

I remember seeing that they had an article wondering why so many Catholic women religious served in health services. That work is not part of Islam. Serving the sick has been our heritage. It was like they are wanting to do some sort of expose on the sisters.

If you go to www.NewAgeIslam.com, you will find now many articles by many stating the need for their own reformation of Islam. Furthermore, there is an article about P Francis now providing directives for Muslims in reformation, the use of reason and common humanity.

 

[DebChris]

Al Jazeera needs reformation. It is not good in my mind because of its agenda…world domination of Islam.

I remember seeing that they had an article wondering why so many Catholic women religious served in health services. That work is not part of Islam. Serving the sick has been our heritage. It was like they are wanting to do some sort of expose on the sisters.

If you go to www.NewAgeIslam.com, you will find now many articles by many stating the need for their own reformation of Islam. Furthermore, there is an article about P Francis now providing directives for Muslims in reformation, the use of reason and common humanity.

Caring for the sick is not limited to Christianity. I have been treated by excellent skilled Muslim doctors. One followed up on a Friday (his only day off) to insure when I texted at midnight him about a concern. Yes, I had their mobile number although I would never think to call a doctor.
As Christians, we need to put on humility and see others as individuals. Daesh does not represent Islam. If reason is to prevail, then as the Islamic expert said, it through not a reformation where each imam continues to decide for himself what is or is not the proper interpretation of the Koran, but through communion and mutual understanding, “a Council of Trent” that brings together the various factions to study what they consider their sacred text.
I know my personal view of Al Jazeera before actually living in the Middle East and seeing reports not available on American stations that have become inundated with the latest gossip. I am not interested in the top Hollywood celebrity. I do like knowing about the land wars taking place in Vietnam between the vets who fought for the Viet Cong and the traditional land owners, the types of stories I found while living overseas.
Much adjunct care in Muslim hospital care, by the sisters etc. is provided by Indian and Philippine nurses. Many are Christian although some may be Hindu or Sikh. When a person is sick, they do not look at the denomination of the person providing care.

 

[KathleenGee]

Sorry for my lack of clarity.

I am referring back to how Islam expanded – Palestine, Syria, Egypt teeming Christian populations that fell by the sword of Islam.

I reflect on the ancient Christians directed by their bishops to lay down their lives and nurse the pagans dying of plagues on the streets, and burying their dead.

 

[DebChris]

Sorry for my lack of clarity.

I am referring back to how Islam expanded – Palestine, Syria, Egypt teeming Christian populations that fell by the sword of Islam.

I reflect on the ancient Christians directed by their bishops to lay down their lives and nurse the pagans dying of plagues on the streets, and burying their dead.

You are looking at a criminal organization that the countries that are run by Islamic governments call Daesh. They refuse to give it any legitimacy. Have you seen how Coptic Christians have protected Muslims while they worshiped, or how Muslims have likewise stood guard while Coptic Christians have worshiped?
The king of Bahrain donated the land that the Catholic Church is using to build its second church in that land. These are not stories that make the headlines.
Even today, there are stories of Muslims converting to Christianity because it is the Christians who are providing hospitality even as they are forced to paint the nun sign in regions that Daesh has occupied.
We win the hearts and minds of people through our love and righteous acts of charity, and not by overlooking what other people share in common with us. Pope Benedict XVI talked about how dialogue is communication across difference. Fulton Sheen had an excellent episode in his old TV series (I watched a rerun on EWTN) on evangelizing people from other religions by accepting first what they share in common with us. Don’t start with the Bible, but with their own religious text. One of the pillar of Islam, for instance, is alms giving.
The God who dwells within in us is greater than the circumstances presented on modern media.
Yes, the biggest most active parish to which I ever belonged was in the middle of a Muslim country.

 

[antihippy79]

The reformation did not moderate Catholicism. Quite the opposite: the reformation brought radicalism and war. To wish such a thing on Islam is to advocate the opposite of what you’d want to happen.

 

[DebChris]

The reformation did not moderate Catholicism. Quite the opposite: the reformation brought radicalism and war. To wish such a thing on Islam is to advocate the opposite of what you’d want to happen.

This is the point that the expert on Islam that I listened to made. He suggested that Islam is already in the middle of a reformation and that is what we are witnessing. That like Christianity at the time of the Reformation, it needs a counter Reformation, a Council of Trent. Thank you.
May calm heads prevail.

 

[KathleenGee]

The problem is the House of War, the Sword, and the difficulty to bring unity to all of Islam, just like we have within Christianity.

Likewise one must also find out if the majority of Muslims will allow one of theirs to leave Islam.

There is an inherent violence within Islam that peaks, surges, and then ebbs for awhile. After 9/11 I read a historic timeline of Islam and it was about every few years there was some attack, fracas, war.

This world would be different if Islam did not sanction violence, death.

Right now the head of Turkey is seeking a renewed caliphate.

The blood of recent martyrs are crying out to the Muslim world and because of them, Islam has its movements within itself to seek change.

 

[KathleenGee]

I also have to add this morning I found out there were 82 democrats headed by Ellison of Minnesota to pass House Resolution 569, that was modeled on the Pakistan blasphemy laws, to be incorporated into our society. It failed awhile back.

We must start paying attention to what is happening in our country.

The other problem is that those who want to reform Islam are still a small minority.

 

[Augustine]

When was reformation ever beneficial, both to the faith and to the people? And why press to change something that is falls short of the Truth, both of God and of man? Rather, the best outcome possible for Muslims, or for whatever other creed member, is to become Christians. However, that’s up to us Christians to live a life that all peoples desire and imitate.

Christus natus est1

 

[KathleenGee]

Problem is I see Islam as an extension of the peoples of the region from which it originated. Muhammed drew on his experience with Judaism and Catholicism, drawing from both, but he deviated into warfare, etc. He contradicts all authentic prophets.