Pressure to have tubal ligation

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Hello- I have a friend who is 8 months pregnant with her 6th child. The four previous were c-sections. She has a LOT of pain at the incision site. Her doctor is pressuring her to have a tubal after the birth, saying that her body couldn’t handle another pregnancy (this is what he told her the last pregnancy too, although she wasn’t in so much pain then). Our priest told her that’s immoral, and to use NFP instead. She is 33 years old. As a past NFP teacher who’s very pro life, and have nine children of my own, I normally would agree with the priest, but I don’t know if my friend told the priest that her husband cannot be trusted to use NFP. My father-in-law is a Catholic ObGyn who’se very well respected. I asked him what he thought, and he said that he didn’t know what to say, however he said that an argument in favor of sterilization could be made because her uterus could be considered a diseased organ. Can someone help? My friend is counting on me to help her make this decision.
 
Tiber2001 said:
Hello- I have a friend who is 8 months pregnant with her 6th child. The four previous were c-sections. She has a LOT of pain at the incision site. Her doctor is pressuring her to have a tubal after the birth, saying that her body couldn’t handle another pregnancy (this is what he told her the last pregnancy too, although she wasn’t in so much pain then). Our priest told her that’s immoral, and to use NFP instead. She is 33 years old. As a past NFP teacher who’s very pro life, and have nine children of my own, I normally would agree with the priest, but I don’t know if my friend told the priest that her husband cannot be trusted to use NFP. My father-in-law is a Catholic ObGyn who’se very well respected. I asked him what he thought, and he said that he didn’t know what to say, however he said that an argument in favor of sterilization could be made because her uterus could be considered a diseased organ. Can someone help? My friend is counting on me to help her make this decision.
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Can you elaborate on why her husband can’t be trusted to use NFP? If what you mean is “he can’t abstain from sex periodically…” I’d say that is a problem in itself and the road to fixing things starts there.
 
Tiber2001 said:
Hello- I have a friend who is 8 months pregnant with her 6th child. The four previous were c-sections. She has a LOT of pain at the incision site. Her doctor is pressuring her to have a tubal after the birth, saying that her body couldn’t handle another pregnancy (this is what he told her the last pregnancy too, although she wasn’t in so much pain then). Our priest told her that’s immoral, and to use NFP instead. She is 33 years old. As a past NFP teacher who’s very pro life, and have nine children of my own, I normally would agree with the priest, but I don’t know if my friend told the priest that her husband cannot be trusted to use NFP. My father-in-law is a Catholic ObGyn who’se very well respected. I asked him what he thought, and he said that he didn’t know what to say, however he said that an argument in favor of sterilization could be made because her uterus could be considered a diseased organ. Can someone help? My friend is counting on me to help her make this decision.
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It may be that a hysterectomy (removal of the uterus) might be medically necessary, which would mean an end to your friend’s fertility, but this is NOT the same thing as a tubal ligation (which closes off the fallopian tubes and is done for sterilization purposes only, and so not morally licit.)

Your friend’s situation is a tough one and I will definitely be praying for her. I would think the way to move forward is getting the husband to realize the situation is very serious and his wife’s health and life could be in jeopardy. If that’s not enough to motivate him, I’d have a very hard time continuing to have marital relations with him, NFP or no - how can I be so intimate, open, trusting and vulnerable with someone who doesn’t care for my pain or if I live or die?
 
Thank you kptrs,
Her husband is a very good man, but has PTSD problems sometimes because he was involved in a horribly traumatic battle. So far, not able to resolve, and he can be controlling, demanding that she be pregnant again so that she won’t leave him. Why must life be so complex? I suppose that she should refuse the tubal and pray for the best. NFP does work for them in terms of knowing the fertile and infertile times. They live 20 mins from a hospital where they could do an emergency hysterectomy if it comes to that.
 
Pensmama87,
Thanks for bringing up the distinction! My friend is very flustered, and it’s possible that the doctor is calling for a hysterectomy. I’ll make sure to ask her. I agree with you on everything you wrote.
 
The National Catholic Bioethics Center does consults.

ncbcenter.org/about-us/contact-us/

Is your friend’s husband getting appropriate therapy and does he have appropriate spiritual support? What he is doing is abusive and he needs to stop. This situation aside, your friend is eventually going to stop being able to get pregnant–so his “method” of keeping her stuck with him is not going to work forever.

Also, he may have PTSD, but what he is doing is pretty much guaranteed to produce trauma and/or bereavement.
 
The fact that the husband can’t be trusted is even more reason not to get a TL; his behavior is abusive and getting a TL will enable him rather than resolve the underlying issues.
 
ShrodingersCat said:
The fact that the husband can’t be trusted is even more reason not to get a TL; his behavior is abusive and getting a TL will enable him rather than resolve the underlying issues.
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I agree with this. I understand that his PTSD reduces his culpability but his behavior is objectively unacceptable and should not be enabled.
 
Tiber2001 said:
Thank you kptrs,
Her husband is a very good man, but has PTSD problems sometimes because he was involved in a horribly traumatic battle. So far, not able to resolve, and he can be controlling, demanding that she be pregnant again so that she won’t leave him. Why must life be so complex? I suppose that she should refuse the tubal and pray for the best. NFP does work for them in terms of knowing the fertile and infertile times. They live 20 mins from a hospital where they could do an emergency hysterectomy if it comes to that.
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Although the PTSD is not the husband’s fault, it doesn’t change the fact that this woman is in an abusive situation. Personally I would recommend she leave him until he has his PTSD cured
 
Tiber2001 said:
Thank you kptrs,
Her husband is a very good man, but has PTSD problems sometimes because he was involved in a horribly traumatic battle. So far, not able to resolve, and he can be controlling, demanding that she be pregnant again so that she won’t leave him. Why must life be so complex? I suppose that she should refuse the tubal and pray for the best. NFP does work for them in terms of knowing the fertile and infertile times. They live 20 mins from a hospital where they could do an emergency hysterectomy if it comes to that.
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This is the problem that needs to be fixed.
Her medical professionals should be made aware of this and contact the proper authorities.
 
Tiber2001 said:
Thank you kptrs,
Her husband is a very good man, but has PTSD problems sometimes because he was involved in a horribly traumatic battle. So far, not able to resolve, and he can be controlling, demanding that she be pregnant again so that she won’t leave him. Why must life be so complex? I suppose that she should refuse the tubal and pray for the best. NFP does work for them in terms of knowing the fertile and infertile times. They live 20 mins from a hospital where they could do an emergency hysterectomy if it comes to that.
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This is the problem that needs to be fixed.
Her medical professionals should be made aware of this and contact the proper authorities.
If she is in a situation that is harmful to her and she cannot say no to relations that put her life at risk then, this is no longer an nfp issue but a legal one. We cannot give advice on medical or legal issues here.
Undergoing surgery to circumvent abuse is not something that anyone should recommend.
As an nfp instructor you should know that. As a friend, you should be her advocate.

This situation is abusive.
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
This is the problem that needs to be fixed.
Her medical professionals should be made aware of this and contact the proper authorities.
If she is in a situation that is harmful to her and she cannot say no to relations that put her life at risk then, this is no longer an nfp issue but a legal one. We cannot give advice on medical or legal issues here.
Undergoing surgery to circumvent abuse is not something that anyone should recommend.
As an nfp instructor you should know that. As a friend, you should be her advocate.

This situation is abusive.
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YES
 
Thank you for all of your replies. It really helps to have an outside perspective. As an NFP teacher, we’re told to refer these situations to counselors/psychologists. Unfortunately they can only afford a secular counselor, and all they’ve done is to recommend sterilization. It’s very frustrating. It’s not the only time I’ve seen this in counselors, because several friends of mine who are Catholic and have seen Christian or secular counselors have been told to get divorced or get sterilized. Our priest is a trained spiritual director and is very kind and humble. He knows I’m friends with this couple and has expressed frustration to me in working with them, but he does take time out of his extremely busy schedule to meet with them as able.

I’m going to talk to the woman again to see if I can get more details about her situation. I’ll try to see if I can find a good Catholic counselor to help them perhaps for a lower fee since they’re poor. I’ll see if we can all meet with our priest together.

God bless, and thanks for your prayers!
 
I just wanted to add too, that as part of our NFP teacher training (it was many years ago), we read a book by John Kippley (founder of the Couple to Couple League) in which he covered a situation he called “marital rape.” He said that using birth control could be justified in this situation, and so perhaps this influence caused me to falter slightly regarding not being more firm in my stance regarding this situation.
 
Tiber2001 said:
I just wanted to add too, that as part of our NFP teacher training (it was many years ago), we read a book by John Kippley (founder of the Couple to Couple League) in which he covered a situation he called “marital rape.” He said that using birth control could be justified in this situation, and so perhaps this influence caused me to falter slightly regarding not being more firm in my stance regarding this situation.
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All I can say is it’s NOT okay to rape your spouse under any circumstances.

Sigh

I don’t want to say too much more with the limited information I have here, but it seems like both a therapist and priest are standing by while a husband forces sex on his wife whose health and well-being are at risk. And that’s just beyond me.
 
kptrs said:
All I can say is it’s NOT okay to rape your spouse under any circumstances.

Sigh

I don’t want to say too much more with the limited information I have here, but it seems like both a therapist and priest are standing by while a husband forces sex on his wife whose health and well-being are at risk. And that’s just beyond me.
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Yeah. That’s pretty terrible.

I would call a hotline for advice or look into free/reduced/sliding scale counseling. Catholic Charities may have it, or should at the very least offer referrals. Good therapists, even secular ones, should not be pushing a violation of deeply held religious beliefs. That completely ignores the actual problem here.

Your friend should also double check mental health coverage through her regular insurance, look into whether or not the family has access to EAP counseling, and consider disclosing to her doctor that she is facing abuse by her husband. OBs and midwifery practices often have connections to services that your friend may not know abput that can help.

If your friend is traumatized, she may feel unable to help herself. But that doesn’t mean there’s nothing to be done. It’s good she has you to help her.
 
I’m sorry that your friend is in this position. It is a real shame that there is very little to no real flexibility in the Catholic stance on birth control. Because of this, women and families deal with a lot of guilt. Is this from God?
 
31crystal said:
I’m sorry that your friend is in this position. It is a real shame that there is very little to no real flexibility in the Catholic stance on birth control. Because of this, women and families deal with a lot of guilt. Is this from God?
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Guilt is often from God. It’s how we know to repent.

What advantage does " flexibility" of birth control (whatever that means) give anyone?

Do you think birth control (artificial) is holy?
 
31crystal said:
I’m sorry that your friend is in this position. It is a real shame that there is very little to no real flexibility in the Catholic stance on birth control. Because of this, women and families deal with a lot of guilt. Is this from God?
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So, she goes on birth control so her husband can continue to use her? This is “flexibility”?

If so, I’ll pass.
 
pensmama87 said:
So, she goes on birth control so her husband can continue to use her? This is “flexibility”?

If so, I’ll pass.
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In its way yes given that the husband is as he is. It is to deal with the reallty and protect the innocent from more abuse… It is mercy . In an ideal world there would be no need but in this and other cases, there is
 
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