Preventing desecration

[Trevelyan]

I’m wondering about these two questions:

1. If a lay person could see that the desecration of the Eucharist was, somehow, imminent - could they consume the Eucharist to prevent the desecration (whether it be a large “exposition Host” or Hosts in a ciborium)?

and

1. If a lay person was left alone with the exposed Eucharist, with no one coming to relieve them - could they repose the Eucharist (if they were not an EMHC)?

Probably a strange question

 

[gelsbern]

You have 2 questions numbered as 1, but I am going to ask one question in regards to the 2nd question

Ignoring the fact that the eucharist is the body, blood, soul and divinity for just a second. If you were vising Jesus, in person, and he’s in the same room with you sitting in a chair nearby, and there’s no one else there to be with him, would you tell him to leave so that you could go on with whatever you wanted to do?

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Trevelyan:

I’m wondering about these two questions:

1. If a lay person could see that the desecration of the Eucharist was, somehow, imminent - could they consume the Eucharist to prevent the desecration (whether it be a large “exposition Host” or Hosts in a ciborium)?

and

1. If a lay person was left alone with the exposed Eucharist, with no one coming to relieve them - could they repose the Eucharist (if they were not an EMHC)?

Probably a strange question

In my opinion yes they should consume the Eucharist if harm or desecration is imminent and the Eucharist cannot be secured in a taberncale or returned to the church.

A layperson left with the Eucharist exposed for adoration should remain until the next person arrives. I have remained for several hours because the next person or persons didn 't show up for whatever reason. They could repose the Eucharist if needed but upon locking the taberncale what would they do with the key? No you don’t leave it in the door of the taberncale, like I’ve seen so many times. Perpetual Adoration should be perpetual except for Good Friday and Holy Saturday.

 

[bluehen]

A layperson left with the Eucharist exposed for adoration should remain until the next person arrives. I have remained for several hours because the next person or persons didn 't show up for whatever reason. They could repose the Eucharist if needed but upon locking the taberncale what would they do with the key? No you don’t leave it in the door of the taberncale, like I’ve seen so many times. Perpetual Adoration should be perpetual except for Good Friday and Holy Saturday.

I don’t think this is realistic in many cases. What if you had to pick up a toddler from school? What if you had to go to work? What if you had to go take an important medication that was at your home?

The fact is- there are people who don’t show up for whatever reason, and it’s not always feasible to stay. What is the best solution then?

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

bluehen:

I don’t think this is realistic in many cases. What if you had to pick up a toddler from school? What if you had to go to work? What if you had to go take an important medication that was at your home?

The fact is- there are people who don’t show up for whatever reason, and it’s not always feasible to stay. What is the best solution then?

Many won’t like my answwer. If there are not enough people for perpetual adoration then adoration should be only part time when at least three people can sign up for any given hour. When you sign up as a primary person for an hour make sure that you won’t have to leave right after to pick up a child or take medication, or go to work right after your hour. Give yourself several hours of buffer time.

 

[Trevelyan]

Br. Rich SFO:

In my opinion yes they should consume the Eucharist if harm or desecration is imminent and the Eucharist cannot be secured in a taberncale or returned to the church.

A layperson left with the Eucharist exposed for adoration should remain until the next person arrives. I have remained for several hours because the next person or persons didn 't show up for whatever reason. They could repose the Eucharist if needed but upon locking the taberncale what would they do with the key? No you don’t leave it in the door of the taberncale, like I’ve seen so many times. Perpetual Adoration should be perpetual except for Good Friday and Holy Saturday.

Thanks, Br. Rich.

 

[GeorgiaCatholic]

I know this isn’t expected of the average person, but there are several saints who have died rather than leaving the Eucharist alone or seeing it desecrated.

 

[Confiteor]

Br. Rich SFO:

Give yourself several hours of buffer time.

I wonder how many people have several hours of buffer time. Maybe retired people? I don’t know of many though. This would discourage me from signing up for a slot unless quite a few were scheduled after me.

 

[otm]

Br. Rich SFO:

Many won’t like my answwer. If there are not enough people for perpetual adoration then adoration should be only part time when at least three people can sign up for any given hour. When you sign up as a primary person for an hour make sure that you won’t have to leave right after to pick up a child or take medication, or go to work right after your hour. Give yourself several hours of buffer time.

The problem is not with enough signed up; it is with the simple fact that sometimes the next person doesn’t show up. And sometimes staying simply is not an option. The simple answer is, repose the Eucharist.

As to the key, that, too is simple: have a small lock box in a disctrete location; three letters is all that is needed. They are the small type usually used by builders and can be obtained from a good hardware store.

 

[otm]

gelsbern:

You have 2 questions numbered as 1, but I am going to ask one question in regards to the 2nd question

Ignoring the fact that the eucharist is the body, blood, soul and divinity for just a second. If you were vising Jesus, in person, and he’s in the same room with you sitting in a chair nearby, and there’s no one else there to be with him, would you tell him to leave so that you could go on with whatever you wanted to do?

If I was visiting Jesus, and I needed to leave, knowing the love and mercy He has exhibited to all, and certainly to me, I sincerely doubt He would insist that I stay; I suspect He would thank me for coming to visit, give me a blessing for my safe trip, wish me well, and ask me to return as soon as I could.

And it should be noted that doing what I wanted to do, like going home and going to bed to get a night’s sleep, is probably something He would not object to. Even He needed to sleep; seems He was doing so in the boat when the storm came up.

Oh, and my hour is from 9 to 10 on Friday nights, so I need to get going.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

otm:

The problem is not with enough signed up; it is with the simple fact that sometimes the next person doesn’t show up. And sometimes staying simply is not an option. The simple answer is, repose the Eucharist.

As to the key, that, too is simple: have a small lock box in a disctrete location; three letters is all that is needed. They are the small type usually used by builders and can be obtained from a good hardware store.

In my opinion staying must always be an option.

 

[otm]

Br. Rich SFO:

In my opinion staying must always be an option.

Our approach is that if you can stay when the next person misses (or is late), by all means you are encouraged to do so. And constant holes in the schedule are something that needs to be addressed; either by volunteers to take the hour until someone is recruited to “permanently” fill it, or if that can’t be done, to reconsider whether or not we have a charism for 24 hour adoration.

So far, the issue has been that the occasional reposing is acceptable. Some people simply are not able to take more than one hour at any given moment. It doesn’t seem to be a constant problem, but rather, an occasional one. I truly beleive that Christ has much less of a problem with it than we do.

I also suspect that if we had started wtih the approach that we were asking people to cover one hour a week, or more if they could, and had at the same time insisted that they stay if for any reason the next person had not shown up, we would not have gotten this off the ground. Weather, family, jobs and other legitimate committments, as well as physical health, simply don’t allow some people that luxury of staying beyond their hour. I don’t see that anyone should be made uncomfotrtable or made to feel guilty if they cannot cover for someone else, or made to feel that they are somethow not worthy to do an hour of adoration if that is all they can commit to.

 

[gelsbern]

Very interesting thread,

I guess I am having a difficult time figuring out which part of perpetual is misunderstood.

If perpetual adoration isn’t working out, do a 24 hours or 48 hours devotion once a month or every couple of months and make sure that those who sign up can stay longer if needed and make sure that those who’ve signed up can show up.

 

[otm]

gelsbern:

Very interesting thread,

I guess I am having a difficult time figuring out which part of perpetual is misunderstood.

If perpetual adoration isn’t working out, do a 24 hours or 48 hours devotion once a month or every couple of months and make sure that those who sign up can stay longer if needed and make sure that those who’ve signed up can show up.

If that is in reference to my reply, I don’t think we have any issue with what the word “perpetual” means.

Among other things, it does not mean 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.

To begin wtih, it does not include the time during the Triduum from, if I recall correctly, after Holy thursday evening Mass through Holy Saturday night liturgy.

Further, it does not mean during Mass on Sunday and weekdays. The chapel where we have adoration is just off the main church, and it would not be liturguically correct to have the Eucharist exposed while Mass is going on.

we are a parish that has managed perpetual adoration for something like 10 years now, so it is not as if we are struggling to get this off the ground. The question is whether the Eucharist can be reposed during the normal time of adoration if someone does not sho up for the next hour; the answer we have is yes, but it certainly should not be a frequent problem.

In our parish it is not a frequent problem.

 

[gelsbern]

No, it was just a general statment about the thread.

Anyway

From Holy Communion and the Worship of the Eucharist Outside of Mass, n. 91:
“In the absence of a priest or deacon or if they are lawfully impeded, the following persons may publicly expose and later repose the holy eucharist for the adoration of the faithful:
a) an acolyte or special minister of communion;
b) a member of a religious community or of a lay association of men or women which is devoted to eucharistic adoration, upon appointment by the local Ordinary.”

If someone isn’t in this category, I can’t see how the answer could be yes when the language is so clear.

This means that if Mr. Jones has to leave, and the next person hasn’t arrived, then there needs to be a way of contacting at least someone in that list or be part of the lay association that has been appointed by the local Ordinary (i.e. the bishop)

 

[bluehen]

If someone isn’t in this category, I can’t see how the answer could be yes when the language is so clear.

Well, for starters, not every special circumstance is covered by every rule. That rule doesn’t fully apply here, because we’re not talking about someone exposing and then reposing. The rule you quote is clear about who may expose and later repose. It does not necessarily rule out who may repose in special circumstances.

This means that if Mr. Jones has to leave, and the next person hasn’t arrived, then there needs to be a way of contacting at least someone in that list or be part of the lay association that has been appointed by the local Ordinary (i.e. the bishop)

It seems to me that the only way that someone can be contacted is by phone. SO, the logical next step in your thinking means that there must be a phone within the sightline of the holy eucharist, or people must make sure to bring cell phones.

I’m not sure that these options are more reverential than faithfully reposing the host.