Priest and Gospel reading

[EcceAgnusDei]

You do know why they perpetuate the school liturgies? to prove to the powers that be that they are Catholic Schools, or Catholic School Boards and so deserve separate funding.

If you are willing to let 80% of Catholic schools close or go public then you could have a “faithful remnant” who are “fully” Catholic.

It is better to have faithful people who are truly Catholic than non-faithful who claim to be Catholic. It is so detrimental to have children go to a school that claims to teach Catholicism and then instead teaches them heresy. It confuses them out of their Faith and out of salvation.

Please note: I am not making a claim about any particular group or person.

• PAX

 

[triumphguy]

But you could see why, given similar circumstances a faithful and devout priest might walk among the students with the Word, and proclaim the Word as close to the students as possible?

 

[EcceAgnusDei]

But you could see why, given similar circumstances a faithful and devout priest might walk among the students with the Word, and proclaim the Word as close to the students as possible?

No. If the Church has declared it wrong according to Her rubrics, then breaking those rubrics can only harm the faith of those students.

If the priest wanted to declare the Gospel to the students in the midst of the students, then he should have celebrated an EF Solemn High Mass, which would have allowed him to do so (with all the proper ceremonies and solemnities, of course).

• PAX

 

[triumphguy]

Are you so sure that it is against the rubrics to do this?

Given that the Norms for Childrens’ Liturgies are different?

BTW is reading your missal during the proclamation of the Gospel a liturgical abuse?

I’m not saying you do it, it’s just that people are very willing to splash ink around concerning the rubrics when they themselves are often unwittingly breaking the “rules” themselves.

 

[EcceAgnusDei]

Are you so sure that it is against the rubrics to do this?

Given that the Norms for Childrens’ Liturgies are different?

BTW is reading your missal during the proclamation of the Gospel a liturgical abuse?

I’m not saying you do it, it’s just that people are very willing to splash ink around concerning the rubrics when they themselves are often unwittingly breaking the “rules” themselves.

Rubrics, generally speaking, apply to the celebrant. Me reading my missal during the proclamation of the Gospel is not an abuse nor is against the rubrics.

Please see the posts above that refer to the relevant GIRM, which states that the readings must occur at the ambo.

• PAX

 

[triumphguy]

It is actually against the “rules”: the Gospel is to be proclaimed to the assembly, not read privately by individuals. The Word is spoken and heard, not read.

1. Ideally, members of the assembly listen to the proclamation of the Scriptures and do not read along in missalettes. In the act of communal listening, the worshippers experience not only unity among themselves but also the presence of Christ speaking to them through the Word (Introduction to the Lectionary for Mass #45).

archdiocese.la/prayer/worship/guidelines/lector.html

Listening is not an isolated moment. It is a way of life. It means openness to the Lord’s voice not only in the Scriptures but in the events of our daily lives and in the experience of our brothers and sisters. It is not just my listening but our listening together for the Lord’s word to the community (Fulfilled in Your Hearing: The Homily in the Sunday Assembly #20 National Conference of Catholic Bishops).

 

[triumphguy]

Back on topic:

Directory for Masses With Children
November 1, 1973
Congregation for Divine Worship

1. It is the responsibility of the priest who celebrates with children to make the celebration festive, familial, and meditative.

where the children can act with a **feeling of ease **according to the requirements of a living Liturgy that is suited to their age.

1. In view of the nature of the liturgy as an activity of the entire person and in view of the psychology of children, participation by means of gestures and posture should be strongly encouraged in Masses with children, with due regard for age and local customs. Much depends not only on the actions of the priest, [29] but also on the manner in which the children conduct themselves as a community.

Sometimes the homily intended for children should become a dialogue with them, unless it is preferred that they should listen in silence.

The contents of the directory are intended to **help children readily and joyfully to encounter Christ **together in the Eucharistic celebration and to stand with Him in the presence of the Father.

How are you going to do that stuck behind an ambo?

If you’ve ever seen a really good story teller they really get engaged with the kids, they don’t stand behind a lectern and intone the story to them.

 

[TheDoctor]

Back on topic:
How are you going to do that stuck behind an ambo?

If you’ve ever seen a really good story teller they really get engaged with the kids, they don’t stand behind a lectern and intone the story to them.

I think the point being glossed over, and forgive me if I am mistaken, is that this was not done during a special children’s Mass, but done as part of a normal “adult” Mass. In this case, I do not believe the guidelines in the Directory apply - I think you follow the GIRM.

It has been my understanding that the Guidelines in the Directory apply only to liturgies specifically addressed to children. This is why, when you take them out before the readings to, say, a classroom, the rubrics are looser and you don’t need an ambo) however this is not the case the OP was talking about, was it?

 

[triumphguy]

Nope: it was done during a children’s liturgy:

**Sometimes at the school childrens Mass **our priest will take the Gospel down off the anbo, then walk down the stairs to which now he is no longer in the sancturary and read it while walking around at. Is this aloud. Thanks

 

[Cathryn]

It is actually against the “rules”: the Gospel is to be proclaimed to the assembly, not read privately by individuals. The Word is spoken and heard, not read.

archdiocese.la/prayer/worship/guidelines/lector.html

It is not against any “rules” to read along silently with the missalette or missal during the readings at Mass. It is not reading privately. One is listening to the word of God along with everyone else and following along in the missal.

Cardinal Mahoney:
6. Ideally, members of the assembly listen to the proclamation of the Scriptures and do not read along in missalettes. In the act of communal listening, the worshippers experience not only unity among themselves but also the presence of Christ speaking to them through the Word (Introduction to the Lectionary for Mass #45).
Properly there are “no booklets for the assembly to follow the reading, although by the front doors there are Sunday Missals for the hearing impaired and for those whose language is different from the one used at this Mass” (Gather Faithfully Together: Guide for Sunday Mass #52 Cardinal Roger Mahony).

What #45 actually reads:

General Introduction to the Lectionary (Second Edition)
Author:

Sacred Congregation for the Sacraments and Divine Worship

January 21, 1981

45. In the liturgy of the word, the congregation of Christ’s faithful even today receives from God the word of his covenant through the faith that comes by hearing, and must respond to that word in faith, so that they may become more and more truly the people of the New Covenant.
The people of God have a spiritual right to receive abundantly from the treasury of God’s word. Its riches are presented to them through use of the Order of Readings, the homily, and pastoral efforts.

The missalettes are there for a purpose. Some prefer to use our own missal. There are no rules broken, and no sin involved. We are still part of the congregation, even if we read along as the readings are proclaimed. It is not a sign of unity to have people thinking that someone next to them is sinning or breaking rules, by using a missalette, especially if they are a visitor from somewhere else.

The real rubrics and GIRMS and Canon Law of the Church are there for a purpose and are meant to help us move all of us closer to God.

 

[englishredrose]

Sorry DSJJ - sometimes with all the snow here I have to make a little joke from time to time.

The priest apparently is trying to connect with the children during a school liturgy. Is this in a gym or at the Church?

I’m sure there’s people who will say this is wrong, but if the priest is connecting the Children to the Word of God then surely that’s good.

I tried googling this question but couldn’t find anything definitive: I’m sure someone will disagree with what I wrote and quote chapter and verse

Jesus uses what he did to reach to everyone. i am not criticising or anything but it is a shame when people are so steeped in rules to realise the gospel is not being reached to everyone. all religions are at fault here in that we build our believe up around the rules given us rather than learn to hear and feel and continue to share the good news. we need to take comfort in the rules rather than find God and help others find him too.

 

[triumphguy]

It is not against any “rules” to read along silently with the missalette or missal during the readings at Mass. It is not reading privately. One is listening to the word of God along with everyone else and following along in the missal.

What #45 actually reads:

The missalettes are there for a purpose. Some prefer to use our own missal. There are no rules broken, and no sin involved. We are still part of the congregation, even if we read along as the readings are proclaimed. It is not a sign of unity to have people thinking that someone next to them is sinning or breaking rules, by using a missalette, especially if they are a visitor from somewhere else.

The real rubrics and GIRMS and Canon Law of the Church are there for a purpose and are meant to help us move all of us closer to God.

Wouldn’t you agree that the best time to read a missalette is before mass to prepare for hearing the Word?

It’s funny though how prickly we get when our own particular habit is called out? Which was the reason I brought it up. You continue to read the missalette, of course it’s no sin, and for those hard of hearing, or when they can’t understand the priest’s accent it’s a pastoral aid.

In the same way the priest in this case made a pastoral decision to step out from behind an ambo and to mingle with the kids.

AND the fact that there is so much heat dissipated over this issue shows what a strong symbol it is for the priest to step down to be among the kids.

 

[EcceAgnusDei]

AND the fact that there is so much heat dissipated over this issue shows what a strong symbol it is for the priest to step down to be among the kids.

Strong does not mean good. An action can have strength because it is the wrong thing to do. For example, if a priest took a consecrated Host during Mass and just threw it on the floor, that would be a strong action, but a terrible one.

Don’t fall into the logical fallacy that something is good to do because it causes strong reactions.

Follow the rubrics. Do the red, read the black. The Church has rules for Her liturgy for a reason – they teach us Catholic theology and faith. There is a reason the readings are done at the ambo. There is a reason that only someone ordained can proclaim the Gospel. There are reasons for all of this that teach us, and the children, the Faith.

One of the problems of post-Vatican II confusion was the idea that pastoral care trumps doctrine/dogma. Thankfully this trend is reversing (God bless Pope Benedict). Doctrine should inform pastoral care, but truth always has priority.

• PAX

 

[TheDoctor]

Nope: it was done during a children’s liturgy:

My bad. At our parish, the school children attend the regular 9 AM Mass at the Church, which is what I presumed this was. If on the other hand it was not a regular Mass with school kids in attendence but a special Mass done just for them with a children’s liturgy I can see where the Directory guidelines would apply.

 

[Cathryn]

Wouldn’t you agree that the best time to read a missalette is before mass to prepare for hearing the Word?

It’s funny though how prickly we get when our own particular habit is called out? Which was the reason I brought it up. You continue to read the missalette, of course it’s no sin, and for those hard of hearing, or when they can’t understand the priest’s accent it’s a pastoral aid.

In the same way the priest in this case made a pastoral decision to step out from behind an ambo and to mingle with the kids.

AND the fact that there is so much heat dissipated over this issue shows what a strong symbol it is for the priest to step down to be among the kids.

My reading my missal is not a habit that has been called out. The “rule” that said it was a no no, doesn’t exist. You pick an absurd suggestion from Cardinal Mahoney, and call it a Church rule that people ignore.

The actual Church teaching that Cardinal Mahoney cites as his source is here.
There is nothing that says one can not follow along with the missalette.

General Introduction to the Lectionary (Second Edition)
Author:
Sacred Congregation for the Sacraments and Divine Worship
January 21, 1981

1. In the liturgy of the word, the congregation of Christ’s faithful even today receives from God the word of his covenant through the faith that comes by hearing, and must respond to that word in faith, so that they may become more and more truly the people of the New Covenant.
   The people of God have a spiritual right to receive abundantly from the treasury of God’s word. Its riches are presented to them through use of the Order of Readings, the homily, and pastoral efforts.

You posted as a “rule” something that was not a rule. The real rules of the Church protect the sanctity of the Mass, and are there for our spiritual well being, and to lead us to Christ. The Church is the guardian of determining what the rules are. We are not free to decide they are or are not important.
Personally, I prepare for the reading before Mass (privately during the week), and also follow along during the readings as part of the congregation. Most of my fellow parishoners also follow along with missalettes. We buy missalettes for everyone, not just the handicapped.

 

[zab]

But the norms for Masses with Children allow changes to be made to the liturgy for pastoral reasons: eg the use of gestures, different music, simplified texts, fewer or shorter readings, simplified language, a Eucharist prayer for children.

Also, children can be dismissed from the body of the Church during the Liturgy of the Word, and so the word is read and preached to them in a more experiential way by non-ordained lay people. This would presuppose that Children are to be treated differently since they are different. I would imagine that no Bishop is going to chastise a priest for taking the gospel book to the children during a children’s liturgy.

I haven’t read the documents but this is how it is done in our parish. When the school children are present for Mass, the gospel is read from the ambo by the Deacon, and then the pastor gives his homily while standing in the aisle near where the children sit. He usually begins by asking the children questions about the readings. His homily is directed more towards the children, but beneficial to all. The only time he gives homilies away from the ambo is when there are many children present.

 

[Cathryn]

I haven’t read the documents but this is how it is done in our parish. When the school children are present for Mass, the gospel is read from the ambo by the Deacon, and then the pastor gives his homily while standing in the aisle near where the children sit. He usually begins by asking the children questions about the readings. His homily is directed more towards the children, but beneficial to all. The only time he gives homilies away from the ambo is when there are many children present.

Sounds good

 

[triumphguy]

Regarding use of a hand missal during the readings: zenit.org/article-33729?l=english

the general preference is to discourage the use of reading as an aid to participation.

"By means of the word of God proclaimed at Mass, the Holy Spirit ‘makes what we hear outwardly have its effect inwardly’ (GILFM [The General Introduction to the Lectionary for Mass] 8)

"It is clearly preferable that the word of God be clearly heard by all who participate in the liturgy, for ‘In the hearing of God’s word the Church is built up and grows’ (GILFM 7).

Therefore, the ideal is to participate by an attentive external and inner listening to the proclamation of God’s Word and to the presidential prayers at Mass, rather than simply reading along with them

Basically there should only be one Gospel Book and one proclamation from it.

 

[triumphguy]

At our church’s confirmation liturgy recently the Bishop both read the gospel and proclaimed his homily from the aisle between the pews. And a very good and strong homily it was too.

I know hands will go up in horror at this, but it was a fine sermon from a fine bishop to a great bunch of kids.

 

[Cathryn]

Regarding use of a hand missal during the readings: zenit.org/article-33729?l=english

Basically there should only be one Gospel Book and one proclamation from it.

From the same article, you left out the part that said, **" I would say that if a Catholic finds spiritual profit in using the hand missal during Mass, then he or she is free to do so.
The very fact that the U.S. bishops’ liturgy committee felt the need for these guidelines is proof that they had no desire to merely abolish the use of missals and other participation aids." **

There is only one “Book of the Gospel” and one Proclamation from it at every Mass, even if the parishoners use missalettes provided for by their pastors or themselves. There is no rule against having a missalette and using it. Especially as stated in the article you cite how one may find spiritual profit in using it. That is what it is about, right? It is about hearing the Word and doing it. We can use all our senses our ears, our eyes, and our hearts, and when there is incense our sense of smell as well. Hopefully you are acknowledging there is no sin involved and it is not a habit I have been called out on_it is a choice, that the Church allows.