Priest and the collar

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I know how that feels. I personally go to another parish to confess, or take advantage of the Archdiocese’s regular confession services where there are guest priests in the parish for confession and go line up to a visiting priest.

Besides, what if that priest with a collar you chanced in a mall is Anglican or Orthodox?

Or a brother or a deacon. Also I have seen Lutheran ministers who wear a collar.

Then there is the fact of faculties. What if the priest does not have them? Again, from the Code of Canon Law.

Can. 966 §1 For the valid absolution of sins, it is required that, in addition to the power of order, the minister has the faculty to exercise that power in respect of the faithful to whom he gives absolution.

§2 A priest can be given this faculty either by the law itself, or by a concession issued by the competent authority in accordance with can. 969.

Can. 969 §1 Only the local Ordinary is competent to give to any priests whomsoever the faculty to hear the confessions of any whomsoever of the faithful. Priests who are members of religious institutes may not, however, use this faculty without the permission, at least presumed, of their Superior.

§2 The Superior of a religious institute or of a society of apostolic life, mentioned in can. 968 §2, is competent to give to any priests whomsoever the faculty to hear the confessions of his own subjects and of those others who live day and night in the house.

 

[catholictiger]

I just made one example, I’m sure there are thousands of other examples out there. And given that the number of RC priests absolutely dominates the number of EC priests here in North America, most people wouldn’t be able to tell the difference if the priest they’re seeing on a date is an RC priest or not. Thus my example.

There is no such decree by the Church that they should wear their collar at all times. This has been discussed many, many times. They should wear them on official functions, whenever they represent the Church. But their time off is their time off, the Church doesn’t ask them to wear their collar then.

i understand your example

but a couple of quick things

In a secularized and tendentiously materialistic society, where even the external signs of sacred and supernatural realities tend to be disappearing, the necessity is particularly felt that the priest – man of God, dispenser of His mysteries – should be recognizable in the sight of the community, even through the clothing he wears, as an unmistakable sign of his dedication and of his identity as a recipient of a public ministry. The priest should be recognizable above all through his behavior, but also through his dressing in a way that renders immediately perceptible to all the faithful, even to all men, his identity and his belonging to God and to the Church.

For this reason, the cleric should wear **"suitable clerical clothing, according to the norms issued by the Episcopal Conference and according to legitimate local customs.**" (Canon 284) This means that such clothing, when it is not the cassock, [NB: the cassock is the norm, the default, for the whole Latin Church.] should be distinct from the manner in which laymen dress, and in conformity with the dignity and sacredness of the ministry.

Apart from **entirely exceptional circumstances**, the non-use of clerical clothing on the part of the cleric can manifest **a weak sense of his own identity as a pastor **completely dedicated to the service of the Church (# 66).

pope john paul seems to see an importance of wearing the roman collar

also there is a decree now I understand it comes from the USCCB but this would probably mean all American priest should follow, idk konw church rules as well

On November 18, 1998, the Latin Rite de iure members of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops approved complementary legislation for canon 284 of the Code of Canon Law for the Latin Rite dioceses of the United States.

The action was granted recognitio by the Congregation for Bishops in accord with article 82 of the Apostolic Constitution Pastor Bonus and issued by decree of the Congregation for Bishops signed by His Eminence Lucas Cardinal Moreira Neves, Prefect, and His Excellency Most Reverend Franciscus Monterisi, Secretary, and dated September 29, 1999.  [So, this is not merely a recommendation.]

Complementary Norm: The National Conference of Catholic Bishops, in accord with the prescriptions of canon 284, hereby decrees [So, this is not merely a recommendation.] that without prejudice to the provisions of canon 288 “Permanent deacons are not bound by the provisions of canon 284”], clerics are to dress in conformity with their sacred calling.

In liturgical rites, clerics shall wear the vesture prescribed in the proper liturgical books.[NB:] Outside liturgical functions, a black suit and Roman collar are the usual attire for priests. The use of the cassock is at the discretion of the cleric.  "Usual" attire.  There are reasonable exceptions.  Also, this sentence confirms that the priest may use the cassock at all times, though at least the black suit/clothing is minimally required.  The cassock is the proper dress of a Catholic priest in call circumstances everywhere.]

In the case of religious clerics, the determinations of their proper institutes or societies are to be observed with regard to wearing the religious habit.

As President of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops, I hereby decree that the effective date of this decree for all the Latin Rite dioceses in the United States will be December 1, 1999.

Given at the offices of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops in Washington, DC, on November 1, 1999.

Most Reverend Joseph A. Fiorenza
Bishop of Galveston-Houston
President, NCCB

Reverend Monsignor Dennis M. Schnurr
General Secretary

the code of cannon law came up a couple of times in these qoutes so here is cannon law 284

Clerics are to wear suitable ecclesiastical garb according to the norms issued by the conference of bishops and according to legitimate local customs.

so an American priest should with a only a few exceptions

maybe the one you mentioned which makes since

when they have their own private time and are not in public

and im sure some other times as well

but when they are in public and their wearing the collar isn’t a threat to them which I would imagine would be very rare now of days especially in the USA.

btw the red parts in the quotes are no my emphasis but father Z’s the link is back on page one I think

 

[ConstantineTG]

Or a brother or a deacon. Also I have seen Lutheran ministers who wear a collar.

Then there is the fact of faculties. What if the priest does not have them? Again, from the Code of Canon Law.

Can. 966 §1 For the valid absolution of sins, it is required that, in addition to the power of order, the minister has the faculty to exercise that power in respect of the faithful to whom he gives absolution.

§2 A priest can be given this faculty either by the law itself, or by a concession issued by the competent authority in accordance with can. 969.

Can. 969 §1 Only the local Ordinary is competent to give to any priests whomsoever the faculty to hear the confessions of any whomsoever of the faithful. Priests who are members of religious institutes may not, however, use this faculty without the permission, at least presumed, of their Superior.

§2 The Superior of a religious institute or of a society of apostolic life, mentioned in can. 968 §2, is competent to give to any priests whomsoever the faculty to hear the confessions of his own subjects and of those others who live day and night in the house.

Right, what if the priest went to a mall thats in the jurisdiction of another diocese. Now if he’s a Bishop, no problem.

 

[PA650]

In the Philippines its pretty much a norm for priest to be wearing only a white undershirt and pants and sandals under their vestments. I can imagine its the same for many tropical countries where its over 30-degrees celcius (about 95-F) for much of the year.

I have read about that. On the other hand, the priests of Sri Lanka wear a white cassock with a black sash:
newliturgicalmovement.org/2010/11/more-from-card-ranjiths-reception.html

 

[ConstantineTG]

i understand your example

but a couple of quick things

pope john paul seems to see an importance of wearing the roman collar

also there is a decree now I understand it comes from the USCCB but this would probably mean all American priest should follow, idk konw church rules as well

the code of cannon law came up a couple of times in these qoutes so here is cannon law 284

so an American priest should with a only a few exceptions

maybe the one you mentioned which makes since

when they have their own private time and are not in public

and im sure some other times as well

but when they are in public and their wearing the collar isn’t a threat to them which I would imagine would be very rare now of days especially in the USA.

btw the red parts in the quotes are no my emphasis but father Z’s the link is back on page one I think

From what I’ve gathered in the numerous times this has been discussed in this forum, its not mandatory during their personal time. I agree that a priest fulfilling his duties should at all times wear the proper attire. But when he’s off we should respect his personal time, he’s human after all. Maybe one more reason a priest wouldn’t want to wear the collar during off times is they want to have some time alone, even in thought. So if they’re in a park to relax, they may want to avoid people coming up and asking questions. Of course if an urgent need arises, I do not doubt that they will present themselves.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I have read about that. On the other hand, the priests of Sri Lanka wear a white cassock with a black sash:
newliturgicalmovement.org/2010/11/more-from-card-ranjiths-reception.html

They would do that as well if its not a Mass and there is a procession, like the images you posted. But they key here is to stay cool. A great majority of parishes in the Philippines do not have airconditioning.

By the way, as an added note. 2 weeks ago I took my favorite RC priest to dinner. He was wearing the clerical shirt but his collar is detached but in his pocket.

 

[catholictiger]

From what I’ve gathered in the numerous times this has been discussed in this forum, its not mandatory during their personal time. I agree that a priest fulfilling his duties should at all times wear the proper attire. But when he’s off we should respect his personal time, he’s human after all. Maybe one more reason a priest wouldn’t want to wear the collar during off times is they want to have some time alone, even in thought. So if they’re in a park to relax, they may want to avoid people coming up and asking questions. Of course if an urgent need arises, I do not doubt that they will present themselves.

i don’t mind this as long as the priest doesn’t make not wearing the collar a norm in his life its no big deal.

BTW these issues are very important to me I fell called to be a priest so when this stuff comes up and I see priest not doing what they should it bothers me alittle bit.

i would probably wear my collar as much as possible, only not wear it when I’m on my own and I know people won’t see me that don’t know that I am a priest

maybe I would avoid wearing it so I could just have some time on my own and such.

this stuff is still far away lol, and is God even calling me to do this. (I’m pretty sure he is )

enough about me

I just think the priest should with a only a few exceptions the one you described, they should always be in their clerical dress.

It always bothers me when I see a priest who I know well and I don’t see them with their collar on. I understand they have their reasons not to but I think its best they wear it as much as possible maybe with the exception of when they need time off and such.

 

[ConstantineTG]

i don’t mind this as long as the priest doesn’t make not wearing the collar a norm in his life its no big deal.

BTW these issues are very important to me I fell called to be a priest so when this stuff comes up and I see priest not doing what they should it bothers me alittle bit.

i would probably wear my collar as much as possible, only not wear it when I’m on my own and I know people won’t see me that don’t know that I am a priest

maybe I would avoid wearing it so I could just have some time on my own and such.

this stuff is still far away lol, and is God even calling me to do this. (I’m pretty sure he is )

enough about me

I just think the priest should with a only a few exceptions the one you described, they should always be in their clerical dress.

It always bothers me when I see a priest who I know well and I don’t see them with their collar on. I understand they have their reasons not to but I think its best they wear it as much as possible maybe with the exception of when they need time off and such.

I guess wearing your collar on your off time is a choice. Some priests would do it, some won’t. If you do become a priest and feel you want to stroll in the park with your collar on, by all means do so. I’m just trying to clarify the wrong notion by some people that priests should be wearing the collar all the time when in public, regardless if they’re taking a break.

 

[catholictiger]

I guess wearing your collar on your off time is a choice. Some priests would do it, some won’t. If you do become a priest and feel you want to stroll in the park with your collar on, by all means do so. I’m just trying to clarify the wrong notion by some people that priests should be wearing the collar all the time when in public, regardless if they’re taking a break.

i get what your saying and I don’t disagree

 

[PA650]

I guess wearing your collar on your off time is a choice. Some priests would do it, some won’t. If you do become a priest and feel you want to stroll in the park with your collar on, by all means do so. I’m just trying to clarify the wrong notion by some people that priests should be wearing the collar all the time when in public, regardless if they’re taking a break.

It’s quite interesting that a great issue in the Church during the High Renaissance was the situation of many priests typically wearing the ornate fashions of the day than proper clerical clothing. On the other hand, in certain instances priests today shy away from wearing clerical clothing and instead adopt the secular clothing of the laity for various reasons. Nevertheless, I agree with your statement.

They would do that as well if its not a Mass and there is a procession, like the images you posted. But they key here is to stay cool. A great majority of parishes in the Philippines do not have airconditioning.

By the way, as an added note. 2 weeks ago I took my favorite RC priest to dinner. He was wearing the clerical shirt but his collar is detached but in his pocket.

Thank you for the information. Your comment does remind me of a post I read sometime ago regarding a young priest complaining to an older priest in Poland about wearing a black cassock on a sunny day. The older priest replied by stating its a good idea to walk under the shade of trees during the day in order to provide some comfort than adopting another type of clothing.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

BTW these issues are very important to me I fell called to be a priest so when this stuff comes up and I see priest not doing what they should it bothers me alittle bit.

You mean it bothers you when a priest does not do what you think he should be doing.

I am a brother in a religious order and threads like this bother me as you are telling us that we must conform to your vision rather than follow the actual Canons (and in my case Rules and Constitutions).

This is something that will come up in your formation.

Do you have a spiritual director? If not and you are discerning a call to the priesthood you should get one. This is something that you should discuss with them.

 

[catholictiger]

You mean it bothers you when a priest does not do what you think he should be doing.

I am a brother in a religious order and threads like this bother me as you are telling us that we must conform to your vision rather than follow the actual Canons (and in my case Rules and Constitutions).

This is something that will come up in your formation.

Do you have a spiritual director? If not and you are discerning a call to the priesthood you should get one. This is something that you should discuss with them.

i do have one, it doesn’t come up much for me maybe your right but if the church tells her priest to wear the collar then they should with exceptions of course.

Just like if a priest had some serious abuses in the mass

btw I don’t think it my version I could be wrong but it seems like cannon law backs it up.

I would never want a priest to do thing from my view of things, but I do want them to follow cannon law and it seems like it says for priest to wear their collar, and when priest don’t follow this it bothers me.

again it doesn’t happen much.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

i do have one, it doesn’t come up much for me maybe your right but if the church tells her priest to wear the collar then they should with exceptions of course.

Just like if a priest had some serious abuses in the mass

btw I don’t think it my version I could be wrong but it seems like cannon law backs it up.

I would never want a priest to do thing from my view of things, but I do want them to follow cannon law and it seems like it says for priest to wear their collar, and when priest don’t follow this it bothers me.

again it doesn’t happen much.

No where is it stated that a priest must wear clerical dress all the time.

They may do so if they wish but one who does not do so is doing nothing wrong.

 

[CatholicGuy22]

Many people have already said that they must were them when during the liturgy. Beyond that, Its pretty much up to the priest when he wants to wear it. I see priest walking around in their collar in Church but outside of that i mostly see them wearing their civilians clothes.

I am in the process of becoming a priest and i for one can say that i would wear my clerical clothing all the time but that doesnt make me more faithful than any other priest who doesnt.

God bless!!!

 

[catholictiger]

No where is it stated that a priest must wear clerical dress all the time.

They may do so if they wish but one who does not do so is doing nothing wrong.

i’ve posted it before I don’t want to argue

i’ve never said they have to wear it all the time

but ill mention it again but cannon 284 tells priest this suitable clerical clothing, according to the norms issued by the Episcopal Conference and according to legitimate local customs

and the USCCB my conference of bishops told us this

On November 18, 1998, the Latin Rite de iure members of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops approved complementary legislation for canon 284 of the Code of Canon Law for the Latin Rite dioceses of the United States.

The action was granted recognitio by the Congregation for Bishops in accord with article 82 of the Apostolic Constitution Pastor Bonus and issued by decree of the Congregation for Bishops signed by His Eminence Lucas Cardinal Moreira Neves, Prefect, and His Excellency Most Reverend Franciscus Monterisi, Secretary, and dated September 29, 1999.

Complementary Norm: The National Conference of Catholic Bishops, in accord with the prescriptions of canon 284, hereby decrees  that without prejudice to the provisions of canon 288clerics are to dress in conformity with their sacred calling.

In liturgical rites, clerics shall wear the vesture prescribed in the proper liturgical books. Outside liturgical functions, a black suit and Roman collar are the usual attire for priests. The use of the cassock is at the discretion of the cleric.

In the case of religious clerics, the determinations of their proper institutes or societies are to be observed with regard to wearing the religious habit.

As President of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops, I hereby decree that the effective date of this decree for all the Latin Rite dioceses in the United States will be December 1, 1999.

Given at the offices of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops in Washington, DC, on November 1, 1999.

Most Reverend Joseph A. Fiorenza
Bishop of Galveston-Houston
President, NCCB

Reverend Monsignor Dennis M. Schnurr
General Secretary

I and other have posted this many times in this thread

so if priest aren’t required to wear their clerical dress in public and can never wear it I must be misreading what the USCCB is saying and cannon law is saying it.

again I never said priest should wear their clerical dress 24 7 or all times when in public (well I may have said this but I agreed with a guy in this thread that they don’t have to wear it 100%)

I also think we may be not understanding what we are saying to each other

again I don’t want to debate so I will leave it at this

you guys and gals have a good night

God Bless

 

[Oneofthewomen]

Many people have already said that they must were them when during the liturgy. Beyond that, Its pretty much up to the priest when he wants to wear it. I see priest walking around in their collar in Church but outside of that i mostly see them wearing their civilians clothes.

I am in the process of becoming a priest and i for one can say that i would wear my clerical clothing all the time but that doesnt make me more faithful than any other priest who doesnt.

God bless!!!

May God bless you on your path to the priesthood,
and thank you!!

I am curious as to why you would wear your clericals all the time.
Please understand, I am not making any judgement, just curious-
feel free to tell me to MYOB!

I work for my dioceses, and I know many priests, both personally & professionally.
We have priests on both ends of the spectrum- some in clerics (including a couple who wear cassocks)
to some whom I have never seen in clerics, even when celebrating Mass (usually black pants & a polo or button-down shirt and sometimes even jeans & t-shirts).

There are a group of 10 priests, all ordained within the last 10 years and all in their 30’s & 40’s that I know particullay well.
8 of them wear their clerics for sacramental & ministerial functions only, and the rest of the time are in “civvies”(usually black or khaki trousers, polo’s etc, what I would consider “work/casual” for an American male.)
The other 2 wear there clericals all the time, except on their regularly scheduled day off. All of them are solid, orthodox, spiritual men and we are very lucky to have them!!
I guess my point is- the clothes do not make the man. I have run into priests who look the part, but have no business being priests based on their actions & behaviors,
and I have run into priests who you would never imagine from their outward appearance that they were holy, pious, educated men.

Remember, you can’t judge a book by it’s cover!!

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

i’ve posted it before I don’t want to argue

i’ve never said they have to wear it all the time

but ill mention it again but cannon 284 tells priest this suitable clerical clothing, according to the norms issued by the Episcopal Conference and according to legitimate local customs

and the USCCB my conference of bishops told us this

I disagree with your interpretation.

Also the USCCB is non-binding. The only way that their rulings are binding upon all bishops in the conference is either if the vote is unanimous or it receives a 2/3’s vote and then Rome rules that it is binding.

You have shown neither to be the fact. So individual bishops may have their own rules.

As for myself, my order is an exempt order, so we follow our constitutions. Unlike some orders we are free to be out of our habit or clerical dress when we are not ministering. I follow this rule, I am in habit or clerics when I am working in my ministry. I also wear my habit at other times not required but…

Not having to wear them all the time is something that I have recently learned to greatly appreciate as there are sometimes when I am out that I need to be just me and not be bothered.

 

[CatholicGuy22]

May God bless you on your path to the priesthood,
and thank you!!

I am curious as to why you would wear your clericals all the time.
Please understand, I am not making any judgement, just curious-
feel free to tell me to MYOB!

I work for my dioceses, and I know many priests, both personally & professionally.
We have priests on both ends of the spectrum- some in clerics (including a couple who wear cassocks)
to some whom I have never seen in clerics, even when celebrating Mass (usually black pants & a polo or button-down shirt and sometimes even jeans & t-shirts).

There are a group of 10 priests, all ordained within the last 10 years and all in their 30’s & 40’s that I know particullay well.
8 of them wear their clerics for sacramental & ministerial functions only, and the rest of the time are in “civvies”(usually black or khaki trousers, polo’s etc, what I would consider “work/casual” for an American male.)
The other 2 wear there clericals all the time, except on their regularly scheduled day off. All of them are solid, orthodox, spiritual men and we are very lucky to have them!!
I guess my point is- the clothes do not make the man. I have run into priests who look the part, but have no business being priests based on their actions & behaviors,
and I have run into priests who you would never imagine from their outward appearance that they were holy, pious, educated men.

Remember, you can’t judge a book by it’s cover!!

I love the collar and it looks so cool! When i see a priest wear them in the streets, I always feel inspired that they would wear it in a time when many hate the Church. I know a priest who always wears it despite being made fun of sometimes by non-believers.

Besides, At least i wont have to worry about what i will be wearing for work

 

[ConstantineTG]

Many people have already said that they must were them when during the liturgy. Beyond that, Its pretty much up to the priest when he wants to wear it. I see priest walking around in their collar in Church but outside of that i mostly see them wearing their civilians clothes.

I am in the process of becoming a priest and i for one can say that i would wear my clerical clothing all the time but that doesnt make me more faithful than any other priest who doesnt.

God bless!!!

Actually, since the priest is wearing vestments, many especially those in warmer countries won’t be wearing the collar during Liturgy. Its not required. The vestments are mandatory, the collar isn’t.

 

[dans0622]

Also the USCCB is non-binding. The only way that their rulings are binding upon all bishops in the conference is either if the vote is unanimous or it receives a 2/3’s vote and then Rome rules that it is binding.

You have shown neither to be the fact. So individual bishops may have their own rules.

Hello Brother,

One can interpret the particular law in various ways but there is no doubt that the US Conference of Bishops promulgated a true, binding law: I don’t see how your comment squares with the decree of promulgation, which was quoted in another post. This particular law did receive at least a 2/3 majority and was given approval by the appropriate Roman Congregation. As a member of a religious institute, you have proper law. Secular clerics have their own, which is what was promulgated by the NCCB. I know of no bishop who has his own rules.

Thanks for your time.
Dan