Priest arrested and charged for soliciting sex from an undercover police officer

[miguel]

LCMS_No_More:

Miguel, are you trying to sell the idea that most, if not all, homosexual men have a secret desire to boink little boys?

I am an outraged Catholic. I am outraged at the sexual abuse of kids within the Church. To ignore the male-on-male part of this abuse, is to ignore 81% of the problem, as the abuse statistics clearly show.

LCMS_No_More:

I state firmly that pedophilia is a completely different issue as it is an exclusive desire to boink children. There can be homosexual pedophilia, bisexual pedophilia or heterosexual pedophilia.

You are contradicting yourself here. First you say pedophilia is a completely different issue (from homosexuality). Then you say there can be homosexual pedophilia. The article I provided gives ample evidence for the connection between the two. And this data should not be ignored in forming policies that protect children from sexual predators in the Church. That is my number one concern. And it should be yours as well.

LCMS_No_More:

…reaching out to help a homosexually attracted person and try to help them with their issue and to show the love and compassion of Jesus to them.

I agree this is also necessary. But this should not cause us to adopt policies where kids are still at risk for more sexual abuse. We need to look honestly at the data and do the right thing.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

miguel:

LCMS_No_More:

Miguel, are you trying to sell the idea that most, if not all, homosexual men have a secret desire to boink little boys?

I am an outraged Catholic. I am outraged at the sexual abuse of kids within the Church. To ignore the male-on-male part of this abuse, is to ignore 81% of the problem, as the abuse statistics clearly show.

You didn’t answer my question. I didn’t ask you how you felt about it. Be angry but do not sin. Now, here’s my question again:

Are you trying to sell the idea that most, if not all, homosexual men have a secret desire to boink little boys. It’s a simple yes or no question. Quote:

miguel:

LCMS_No_More:

I state firmly that pedophilia is a completely different issue as it is an exclusive desire to boink children. There can be homosexual pedophilia, bisexual pedophilia or heterosexual pedophilia.

You are contradicting yourself here.

Actually, I’m not…read on.

miguel:

First you say pedophilia is a completely different issue (from homosexuality).

Absolutely!

miguel:

Then you say there can be homosexual pedophilia.

Absolutely. Because ‘homosexual’ is an adjective that modifies the word ‘pedophilia,’ it is not a contradiction. There are pedophiles that prey exclusively on boys. That is homosexual (adj) pedophilia .

The word “homosexual” is always an adjective. There is no such thing as “a homosexual.” There are “homosexual persons.”

miguel:

The article I provided gives ample evidence for the connection between the two. And this data should not be ignored

Statistics can be used to prove anything you want to prove. Kinsey’s 10% figure is an example of this from the gay side of the aisle.

miguel:

in forming policies that protect children from sexual predators in the Church. That is my number one concern. And it should be yours as well.

It absolutely is my concern. No child should ever be subject to such abuse ever.

miguel:

LCMS_No_More:

…reaching out to help a homosexually attracted person and try to help them with their issue and to show the love and compassion of Jesus to them.

I agree this is also necessary. But this should not cause us to adopt policies where kids are still at risk for more sexual abuse. We need to look honestly at the data and do the right thing.

Fine. Why, then is there only one apostolate approved by Rome to minister to the needs of people with homosexual attractions (Courage)? If there was more done on the part of the people in the Church to help people overcome this issue, there would be less abuse in the first place.

Instead, people with homosexual attractions are screamed at, accused, condemned, stoned and hated by the vast majority of orthodox Catholics. People with this issue are called child molesters and told that there is absolutely no place in the Church for them. They are expected to shut up about their struggles not share their concerns and fears with their brothers and sisters in the Church.

 

[miguel]

LCMS_No_More:

Are you trying to sell the idea that most, if not all, homosexual men have a secret desire to boink little boys. It’s a simple yes or no question.

No. The article I provided is not selling this idea either. It provides ample evidence of a connection between homosexuality and pedophilia, and that connection is stronger than the connection between heterosexuality and pedophilia. And this evidence, along with the clergy abuse statistics themselves, should not be ignored by our Bishops in forming policies to protect kids.

LCMS_No_More:

It absolutely is my concern. No child should ever be subject to such abuse ever.

Then sound policy is needed to protect them. And it seems to me such policy should be welcomed by homosexual persons as a way for the group to avoid being prominently reflected in future horrible statistics.

LCMS_No_More:

Fine. Why, then is there only one apostolate approved by Rome to minister to the needs of people with homosexual attractions (Courage)? If there was more done on the part of the people in the Church to help people overcome this issue, there would be less abuse in the first place.

Instead, people with homosexual attractions are screamed at, accused, condemned, stoned and hated by the vast majority of orthodox Catholics. People with this issue are called child molesters and told that there is absolutely no place in the Church for them. They are expected to shut up about their struggles not share their concerns and fears with their brothers and sisters in the Church.

I don’t condone treating homosexual persons with disrespect. And I don’t have to tell you that gay activists don’t regard the issue as something to overcome. So when people do try to reach out as you say, with the message of Catholic morality, they’re accused of hate. That’s not right either.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

miguel:

LCMS_No_More:

Are you trying to sell the idea that most, if not all, homosexual men have a secret desire to boink little boys. It’s a simple yes or no question.

No.

Thank you.

miguel:

The article I provided is not selling this idea either. It provides ample evidence of a connection between homosexuality and pedophilia, and that connection is stronger than the connection between heterosexuality and pedophilia.

The connection is, homosexuality is a perversion of human sexuality and pedophilia is a perversion of human sexuality. Heterosexuality is the natural form of human sexuality, so it has very little in common with pedophilia. I look at it as a spectrum:

Normal--------------------------------------------------------------------------->Perverse
Heterosexuality----------Homosexuality----------Pedophilia------Bestiality

Within those categories, you can break it down evern further to include all sorts of sexual sins. Basically, to the farthest side toward “normal” you would put “monogamy in marriage” under heterosexuality and move on from there. ONLY monogamy in marriage would be wholly normal. Everything else is a perversion of God’s intention (even fornication – for those who believe that it’s just an illicit moral act). Homosexuality in its many different ways of expression (and trust me, there are a LOT of ways of expressing it withought even coming within a mile from a child) is not as perverted or grave as pedophilia, or even worse, bestiality.

miguel:

And this evidence, along with the clergy abuse statistics themselves, should not be ignored by our Bishops in forming policies to protect kids.

And I agree completely with the recommendation. Everyone who plans on entering the seminary or is currently ordained must sign a credo document regarding this issue.

miguel:

I don’t condone treating homosexual persons with disrespect.

Good. Then you’re more in line with the teachings of the church than most people.

miguel:

And I don’t have to tell you that gay activists don’t regard the issue as something to overcome.

I really don’t care what the gay activists have to say. They have an agenda of “anything goes” and “if it feels good” mess! The gay activist movement, IMO, is a tool of satan that is causing the loss of thousands of young people to gay sexuality and it’s sickening to see. In many ways, the attitude of many Christians is only helping the enemy, not hurting it.

miguel:

So when people do try to reach out as you say, with the message of Catholic morality, they’re accused of hate. That’s not right either.

That’s why I insist that people are VERY careful about how they speak about this issue. The three paragraphs in the CCC are exquisite in their wording. It’s that kind of care that every Christian must exercise.

Also, I believe that the actual attitude of a person when talking one on one with a homosexual person is extremely important. Being haughty, dismissive or stand-offish with a homosexual person is the worst possible attitude to take with a homosexual person. People like Fred Phelps and John Hagee, heretics both, don’t help matters much, either.

 

[miguel]

LCMS_No_More:

Basically, to the farthest side toward “normal” you would put “monogamy in marriage” under heterosexuality and move on from there. ONLY monogamy in marriage would be wholly normal. Everything else is a perversion of God’s intention (even fornication – for those who believe that it’s just an illicit moral act).

Simply put, perversion is misuse…in this case God intended sexuality for procreation and marital unity. Any use of it outside of this two-fold purpose is perversion. Strictly speaking, I would say non-contraceptive, heterosexual, life-long monogamy within marriage is the norm (i.e., God’s will as taught by the Catholic Church). The greater the departure from the norm, the more perverse.

LCMS_No_More:

Also, I believe that the actual attitude of a person when talking one on one with a homosexual person is extremely important. Being haughty, dismissive or stand-offish with a homosexual person is the worst possible attitude to take with a homosexual person.

This is something homosexual persons share in common with the rest of humanity.

 

[Jeffrey]

Yes it is true. When grown men have sex with boy… thats a pedophile.

LCMS_No_More:

The question is based on the notion that all homosexual persons are pedophiles. This is completely untrue.

 

[Lizzie]

Why are we arguing about whether this is pedophilia or whatever? Looks like almost all of the offenders are unchaste homosexuals.

 

[Lonevoice]

Tinkerbell:

I agree!!

Yup!

 

[thestickman]

Timidity:

A priest does not break his vow of celebacy by having sex; that is this sin of fornication or adultery. In order to break a vow of celebacy, he would have to get married.

Methinks thou art in error with that one.

 

[kaymart]

LCMS_No_More:

The question is based on the notion that all homosexual persons are pedophiles. This is completely untrue.

Although both are grave sins…A homosexual is not going to go after a young boy just as a heterosexual man would go after a young girl. A pedophile is a sick human being that preys on little children and teens. Homosexuals as sick as it is, is usually consental between two adults, where are a pedophiles are not.

 

[Robert_Bay]

Thread moved

Reason: Holy Orders is a sacrament

 

[muledog]

LCMS_No_More:

The question is based on the notion that all homosexual persons are pedophiles. This is completely untrue.

No, but the opposite is indeed true. The vast majority of pedophile priests are homosexuals.

I wouldn’t trust my kids around anyone who is sexually perverse - gay,straight, or bisexual!

 

[GodBlessJoanie]

This is not surprising and will continue as our Priests are under attack by Satan.

Why?

NO PRIEST = NO EUCHARIST!

And then Satan wins…
Blessings,
Joanie

 

[system]

Timidity:

A priest does not break his vow of celebacy by having sex; that is this sin of fornication or adultery. In order to break a vow of celebacy, he would have to get married.

cel·i·ba·cy ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sl-b-s)
n.
Abstinence from sexual intercourse, especially by reason of religious vows. The condition of being unmarried.

 

[rayne89]

No I would not leave my child alone with any priest that I didn’t know well, just like I wouldn’t her alone with any other adult I didn’t know well.

Whether a priest was arrested for soliciting sex or drugs or other crime. The fact that priest was arrested for crimminal activity is enough to not allow my child alone with him anyway.

Now that being said, I think he be allowed to remain a priest serving in some capacity to the church. Not a parish priest, but in someway he should be allowed to live his vocation. Why? Because we are called to forgive. Not just the sins that are easy but even the sins that are hard. A married man caught in adultery does not automatically have his marriage annulled. Yes the idea of a priest groaping another man for sex repulses us but I’m sure our sins repulse God all the time. Forgive us our sins as we forgive those who trespass against us.

3. Then the scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery and made her stand in the middle.
4. They said to him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the very act of committing adultery.
5. Now in the law, Moses commanded us to stone such women. So what do you say?”
6. They said this to test him, so that they could have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and began to write on the ground with his finger.
7. But when they continued asking him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.”
8. Again he bent down and wrote on the ground.
9. And in response, they went away one by one, beginning with the elders. So he was left alone with the woman before him.
10. Then Jesus straightened up and said to her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”
11. She replied, “No one, sir.” Then Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you. Go, and from now on do not sin any more.”
John 8:3-11

 

[JOHNYJ]

Here in New Jersey the entrapment of people by the police for alleged sexual solicitation is widespread.Its often a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Also the police are known to lie to make the busts.

 

[Mom_of_5]

I am still stunned at the initial reports of sexual abuse by priests, much less all that seems to still be going on. I cannot imagine going to Mass and receiving the Eucharist from a priest arrested for or accused of ANYTHING sexually related. I would never leave a child with anyone I did not know extremely well, whether he be a priest or not.

Love and peace

Mom

 

[kaymart]

JOHNYJ:

Here in New Jersey the entrapment of people by the police for alleged sexual solicitation is widespread.Its often a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Also the police are known to lie to make the busts.

Not just sexual stuff I know this is “off topic”…but Jersey Cops use entrapment for anything, every go down a major street with speed limit 45 to 35 to 30 and back to 45 just to have cops sitting there waiting. So I would not be surprised. I also see real nuts, speeders and drunks on the road and cops ignore it. More revenue (and easier) to catch Mr.John Public on his way to work. Same for someone solicting a prositute, eaiser to collar, then going after the true sexual predators. Ok rant over thanks

 

[harinkj]

Do police lie? Read a few biographies of J. Edgar Hoover. :tsktsk:

• Kathie :bowdown:

 

[Timidity]

vicia3:

cel·i·ba·cy ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sl-b-s)
n.

Abstinence from sexual intercourse, especially by reason of religious vows. The condition of being unmarried.

miguel:

celibacy
1 : the state of not being married
2 a : abstention from sexual intercourse b : abstention by vow from marriage

I notice that the definition quoters didn’t quote from the glossary in the Catechism. The Church’s use of language is sometimes archaic and doesn’t change as quickly as common usage does. So, for your edification allow me to return the favor:

CELIBACY: The state or condition of those who have chosen to remain unmarried for the sake of the kingdom of heaven in order to give themselves entirely to God and to the service of his people. In the Latin Church, celibacy is obligatory for bishops and priests. In some Eastern Churches, celibacy is a prerequisite for the ordination only of bishops; priests may not marry after they have been ordained.