Priest clapping along with music at Mass??

  • Thread starter Thread starter reff
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
As Post #52 states, remembering that God is in our neighbor “takes nothing away from our worship of God.” If anything, it enhances our worship as we forgive and become reconciled to one another. Wherever two or more are gathered in His name, God is in our midst. It is that focus on God alone that lifts our hearts as a community. Nobody on this thread has suggested anything less.
What we have suggested is being totally and completely open to the Love with has been offered to us, thankful for the gift that we have already received. At times, that thankfulness may be expressed with jubilant praise. At other times, especially during the Consecration, it is expressed with complete attentiveness to what God has done and is doing for us.
But, jubliant praise doesn’t mean breaking out into applause. Nor does it mean throwing out the solemnity and sacredness of the Mass. A heart-felt singing of the Te Deum, Holy God We Praise Thy Name, All Creatures of Our God and King and Christus Vincit is certainly a valid expression of joy without sacrificing solemnity.

But, going back to the actions described by the OP, there is something wrong with what the priest did. As Archbishop Rajith noted when he observed that the priest, and here he quotes Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen:
“does not belong to himself; he belongs to Christ; he is not his own. He is Christ’s” …To be conscious of this before, during adn after the celebration of the Eucharist and the other Liturgical Acts is extremely important…there should be a strong sense of liturgical correctness and dignity in the way the celebrations are carried forward, the piety and intense sense of communion with teh Lord and the entire Church which the priest displays in his concentration on what he does at the Altar, the moments of silent prayer and the intense spiritual atmosphere and the atmosphere of being grateful for the eternal gifts received, in recollected thanksgiving after the celebration, are all part of the powerful language of the presence and action of God in these celebrations.
Not once in his address did Archbishop Rajith mention the need for applause or some spontaneous outburst such as dancing. He, in fact, stressed sobriety, solemnity and dignity, something he lamented was sorely missing today.

Talking about Love is certainly a worthy subject, but, it also, in my opinion, sidesteps the issue brought about by the OP regarding the appropriateness of what was witnessed.

As far as stifling the Spirit is concerned, the same Holy Spirit also inspires the Church to protect and safeguard the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. The Holy Spirit also manifests itself in sobriety and reason.
 
As Post #52 states, remembering that God is in our neighbor “takes nothing away from our worship of God.” If anything, it enhances our worship as we forgive and become reconciled to one another. …
What we have suggested is being totally and completely open to the Love with has been offered to us, thankful for the gift that we have already received. At times, that thankfulness may be expressed with jubilant praise. At other times, especially during the Consecration, it is expressed with complete attentiveness to what God has done and is doing for us.
Do not stifle the Spirit.
Agreed.

Actually praise is the most important yet most neglected form of prayer. Certainly we bow down in worship, but we also sing joyfully to the Lord. There’s nothing solemn about the Easter Vigil Gloria.

There is much clapping in Charismatic style worship—It is so exhuberant to be involved in high praise. God knows what he is doing, when he commands us to praise him. It is very uplifting to us.

The Church does allow for inculturation and local custom. She is not too rigid in the areas of posture and music. If something is distracting to someone, certainly they would do well to attend a different Mass, and even voice a respectful objection, but then leave it to God, and those who are called to correct irregularities.

If clapping during the recessional is wrong, much other cultural and movement worship would also be wrong. This is not what the Church wishes for her people.

Lux
 
But, jubliant praise doesn’t mean breaking out into applause. Nor does it mean throwing out the solemnity and sacredness of the Mass. A heart-felt singing of the Te Deum, Holy God We Praise Thy Name, All Creatures of Our God and King and Christus Vincit is certainly a valid expression of joy without sacrificing solemnity.
But the OP is not talking about applause. He is talking about rhythmic clapping along with a particularly exuberant piece of music. This has nothing of the horizontal/vertical, it’s simply an accompaniment to the music.
 
There is an appointed time for everything, and a time for every affair under the heavens…A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance.
Ecclesiastes 3: 1, 3 (NAB)
A Letter from St. Padre Pio of Pietrelcina about how one should conduct oneself at Mass:
“Enter the church in silence and with great respect, considering yourself unworthy to appear before the Lord’s Majesty. Among other pious considerations, remember that our soul is the temple of God and, as such, we must keep it pure and spotless before God and his angels.”
"When assisting at Holy Mass and the sacred functions, be very composed when standing up, kneeling down, and sitting, and carry out every religious act with the greatest devotion. Be modest in your glances; don’t turn your head here and there to see who enters and leaves. Don’t laugh, out of reverence for this holy place and also out of respect for those who are near you. Try not to speak to anybody, except when charity or strict necessity requests this.
In short, behave in such a way that all present are edified by it and, through you, are urged to glorify and love the heavenly Father.
On leaving the church, you should be recollected and calm. Firstly take your leave of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament; ask his forgiveness for the shortcomings committed in his Divine presence and do not leave him without asking for and having received his paternal blessing."
“The priests, ministers of my Son, the priests, by their wicked lives, by their irreverence and their impiety in the celebration of the holy mysteries, by their love of money, their love of honors and pleasures, the priests have become cesspools of impurity…There are no more generous souls, there is no one left worthy of offering a stainless sacrifice to the Eternal for the sake of the world.”
Our Lady of LaSalette, 1846
Imprimatur by Mgr. Bishop of Lecce
An opinion piece by the University Concourse:
References stressing the primarily sacrificial nature of the Mass are also abundant in Canon Law, and both the Second Vatican and Tridentine Council documents. We see, then, that Holy Mass is not primarily communal, but indeed is the summation and unity of communion and sacrifice.
 
Rev 4 [8] “And the four living creatures, each of them with six wings, are full of eyes all round and within, and day and night they never cease to sing, “Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come!”
ps150
Praise him with the blast of the trumpet,
praise him with lyre and harp,
Praise him with timbrel and dance,
praise him with strings and pipe.
Praise him with sounding cymbals,
praise him with clanging cymbals.
Let everything that has breath
praise the LORD! Alleluia.
As was said–there’s a time for everything
let’s not neglect high praise.

Lux
 
The psalms were not referring to the cultic, sacrificial worship of ancient Israel. While they were chanted at some point, people didn’t necessarily do what the psalms suggested as far as playing cymbals and whatnaught during the sacrifice.

Now, the Church is the New Israel. Her form of cultic worship is the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. The Mass is her greatest treasure that is why she celebrates this august rite with all solemnity, dignity and majesty.

Clapping and dancing may work for Protestant ecclesial communities because they only have the Word. The Church has both the Word and Sacrifice.

Not one of the proponents have mentioned the notion that the Mass is, first and foremost, the Holy Sacrifice. What we do at Mass is radically different than what happens when Protestant ecclesial communities gather together to worship. Because Protestant communities only have the Word, their idea of praise involves pop music, clapping and other things that supplement the reading of the Word and the sermon.

The Church takes on an entirely different approach. We are gathered not only to hear the Word, but to participate in offering the pleasing and acceptable sacrifice of that Word made Flesh, who is the Lamb of God and then partaking in the eating and drinking of the Body and Blood of the Living God. Clapping has no place in this (unless so noted in certain Rites).

the fact that this situation troubled the OP who is beginning his journey of faith into the Church shows me that he (or she) is cognizant that something is not right here. I think that bears noting. He is seeing something amiss that many people have not caught. It also shows me that for being someone who is just beginning the trek into the Church, this person has a pretty good Sensus Fidei and is seeing with the eyes of his soul and not depending so much on feelings, which can change like the weathe in Texas during the spring.
 
Agreed.

Actually praise is the most important yet most neglected form of prayer. Certainly we bow down in worship, but we also sing joyfully to the Lord. There’s nothing solemn about the Easter Vigil Gloria.

There is much clapping in Charismatic style worship—It is so exhuberant to be involved in high praise. God knows what he is doing, when he commands us to praise him. It is very uplifting to us.

The Church does allow for inculturation and local custom. She is not too rigid in the areas of posture and music. If something is distracting to someone, certainly they would do well to attend a different Mass, and even voice a respectful objection, but then leave it to God, and those who are called to correct irregularities.

If clapping during the recessional is wrong, much other cultural and movement worship would also be wrong. This is not what the Church wishes for her people.

Lux
 
“The Holy Spirit taught the Church the life of prayer and led her to deeper insights into basic ways of praying: adoration, petition, intercession, thanksgiving and praise”(United Stated Catholic Catechism for Adults, p.467). Each of these forms of prayer is present within the Eucharistic Celebration that we call the Mass.
Eucharist means thanksgiving, and it is this thankfulness to which we are called. Yes, the Mass is incomplete without its connection to the Sacrifice of Calvary. The reality is that we are People of the Resurrection and we are called to celebrate this fact.
In Adoration, we acknowledge we are creatures in the presence of our Creator.
In Petition, we remember Christ’s call “to ask in order to receive, to seek in order to find, and to knock in order that the door may be opened.”
Intercession is the prayer that we make on behalf of the needs of others.
Thanksgiving “flows from the Church’s greatest prayer, the celebration of the Eucharist. Every moment or event can become a thanksgiving offering. We are called to thank God for all the gifts we have received, including our joys and sorrows, all of which, through love, work towards our benefit.”
Praise " ‘is the form of prayer which recognizes most immediately that God is God…(CCC, no. 2639).’ Scripture is fulled with the outpourings of praise for God. When we exult in him with simplicity and an open heart, we obtain a glimpse of the joy of the angels and saints who glory in the ways of God."

The Psalms are the prayers of the Assembly. “They were sung at the Temple, in local synagogues, in family settings, on pilgrimages, and in the solitude of personal prayers. They formed the basis of the prayer of Jesus and, as such, can be used to draw us into his prayer as well.The Psalms are part of every celebration of Mass.”

The information for this post comes directly from The United States Catholic Catechism for Adults, approved by the full body of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) with subsequent recognito of the Holy See.

The Mass is much more than cultic ritual. Christ is present in the Eucharist as we encounter the Living God. Our hearts are moved to both praise and adoration as a result.
 
“The Holy Spirit taught the Church the life of prayer and led her to deeper insights into basic ways of praying: adoration, petition, intercession, thanksgiving and praise”(United Stated Catholic Catechism for Adults, p.467). Each of these forms of prayer is present within the Eucharistic Celebration that we call the Mass.
Eucharist means thanksgiving, and it is this thankfulness to which we are called. Yes, the Mass is incomplete without its connection to the Sacrifice of Calvary. The reality is that we are People of the Resurrection and we are called to celebrate this fact.
In Adoration, we acknowledge we are creatures in the presence of our Creator.
In Petition, we remember Christ’s call “to ask in order to receive, to seek in order to find, and to knock in order that the door may be opened.”
Intercession is the prayer that we make on behalf of the needs of others.
Thanksgiving “flows from the Church’s greatest prayer, the celebration of the Eucharist. Every moment or event can become a thanksgiving offering. We are called to thank God for all the gifts we have received, including our joys and sorrows, all of which, through love, work towards our benefit.”
Praise " ‘is the form of prayer which recognizes most immediately that God is God…(CCC, no. 2639).’ Scripture is fulled with the outpourings of praise for God. When we exult in him with simplicity and an open heart, we obtain a glimpse of the joy of the angels and saints who glory in the ways of God."

The Psalms are the prayers of the Assembly. “They were sung at the Temple, in local synagogues, in family settings, on pilgrimages, and in the solitude of personal prayers. They formed the basis of the prayer of Jesus and, as such, can be used to draw us into his prayer as well.The Psalms are part of every celebration of Mass.”

The information for this post comes directly from The United States Catholic Catechism for Adults, approved by the full body of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) with subsequent recognito of the Holy See.

The Mass is much more than cultic ritual. Christ is present in the Eucharist as we encounter the Living God. Our hearts are moved to both praise and adoration as a result.
However, inasmuch as the Psalms were chanted in the Temple, there is no record that the faithful of Ancient Israel did what was noted in the psalms that you quoted. No one is disputing th validity of the psalms. However, there is no record of the liturgy of the Early Church that would suggest that cymbals and dancing were used.

Although this thread centers on clapping, there have been some observations regarding the issue of joy and exuberance. This evening, I accompanied my father to Mass at our Cathedral. When the organ played the first couple of notes of O Come, O Come, Emmanuel, my heart swelled and I nearly had a knot in my throat. Even though the new Spanish version that appears in Flor y Canto pretty much ruins the hymn, I still belted out the refrain. Joining in a hymn as beautiful and solemn as O Come, O Come Emmanuel with gusto certainly qualifies as uplifting. You don’t have to clap to experience joy when singing this venerable hymn.

I certainly needed it this evening. As I have mentioned in a couple of threads, these past couple of days have been hard for me as I was up at all hours of the night taking care of my dachshund who was dying (his condition went downhill on Thanksgiving). I was tired and cranky and upset because I couldn’t do anything else for him.
The Lord, in His great mercy finally took him this afternoon. This little guy was old and he was also a Katrina survivor that had been abandoned by his family. My dad and I took him into our home and he became a valued member of the family. I was with him when he died. It was difficult.

Something else that helped me was an invitation to help finish decorating the Advent Wreath at the Cathedral. The new administrator saw that I was bummed out and he also noted my gasp when I saw how the Cathedral looked (banners and such which, as one who used to decorate the church, were kitschy). We tackled the Advent Wreath and it turned out rather well. This experience brought joy to me. Granted, it wasn’t done in the context of liturgical worship, but, what we did was to prepare the Cathedral to make it fitting for the season and thereby add a sensory element to the liturgy. So, there was that element of joy that I had as we were arranging the greenery. In fact, we were singing traditional Advent hymns like O Come, O Come Emmanuel, Creator of the Stars of Night and The King Shall Come When Morning Dawns. That really helped us to get into the nature of the season.

This morning, I took an elderly friend to Mass. The choir wasn’t there, which, considering the director’s musical selections, was a good thing. Our PV led us in the singing of O Come, O Come Emmanuel, which I sang with gusto. As I noted earlier, there is joy in fully and actively participating in the Holy Sacrifice. One does not need to clutter the Mass with things like clapping.
 
…The Mass is much more than cultic ritual. Christ is present in the Eucharist as we encounter the Living God. Our hearts are moved to both praise and adoration as a result.
Agreed, and the Church is not so rigid as not to allow for different expressions of praise.

Lux
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top