Priest clapping along with music at Mass??

[DebChris]

Were all the elements of the Mass in place?
I think this need to be the fundamental question. Within the elements of the Mass there is room for the joyous expression of Faith.
The Mass is the public worship of the Church. Within the Mass, heaven and earth are joined in Eucharistic celebration of the gifts that we have received.

What type of response do we expect, or at least want to see when we give a gift? What is our response when we have been overwhelmed by the gift that somebody has given us? Have we received any greater gift than that of salvation?

The evening news had the story of the president elect in Chicago. Some school children seeing him waved excitedly. He dropped everything he was doing (with some last minute arrangements by his security guard) and went into the Catholic school. The children continued to cheer him.
We are called to be like children, are we not? Should we not give even greater cheer (praise) to God than to man? Is God not present in our Eucharistic celebration?
I am not suggesting for a moment that we go to Mass to be entertained. Quite the contrary. What I am suggesting is that it is during Mass that we recognize in whose presence we stand. After our cheering (our praise), we become quiet and listen to the words of the Gospel. We listen to what our God has to say to us. We give thanks for what we have heard, seen, and tasted. This has been my experience, as mentioned earlier, during the most jubilant Masses that I have attended. The solemnity of the Sacrifice becomes that much greater when we acknowledge what we have received.

Yes, David danced before the Ark. Where was his focus at the moment? Was it on the Lord or on how much attention he would personally receive? Where do we place our focus during Mass?
And yes, David committed sin. Yet God chose him as king of Israel. His house became the house from which the messiah would come.

 

[CuriousInIL]

What’s next? Singing?

 

[benedictgal]

The evening news had the story of the president elect in Chicago. Some school children seeing him waved excitedly. He dropped everything he was doing (with some last minute arrangements by his security guard) and went into the Catholic school. The children continued to cheer him.
We are called to be like children, are we not? Should we not give even greater cheer (praise) to God than to man? Is God not present in our Eucharistic celebration?
I am not suggesting for a moment that we go to Mass to be entertained. Quite the contrary. What I am suggesting is that it is during Mass that we recognize in whose presence we stand. After our cheering (our praise), we become quiet and listen to the words of the Gospel. We listen to what our God has to say to us. We give thanks for what we have heard, seen, and tasted. This has been my experience, as mentioned earlier, during the most jubilant Masses that I have attended. The solemnity of the Sacrifice becomes that much greater when we acknowledge what we have received.

Yes, David danced before the Ark. Where was his focus at the moment? Was it on the Lord or on how much attention he would personally receive? Where do we place our focus during Mass?
And yes, David committed sin. Yet God chose him as king of Israel. His house became the house from which the messiah would come.

But, what David did was not within the context of the cultic, sacrificial worship of Ancient Israel. One can keep bringing David up as an example, but the venue and the circumstances are completely different, as is the case of the other example cited in the above-quoted post.

Let’s look at another secular example that is probably more comporable with the context of the Liturgy… Bishop Vass wrote an article where he compared the solemnity of the Mass to what goes on at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier at the changing of the guard.

The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is the most significant event in the world. As the priest and ministers enter the church and proceed down the aisle, there is not the expectation that they imitate the guards at Arlington, but it would be most appropriate to do so. The guard at Arlington processes solemnly in front of a tomb of national significance, and he is rightfully dignified. Every altar in every Catholic Church has eternal significance and deserves a regard greater than that demanded by the national tomb.

…As I stood watching the guard making his seemingly routine and non-variable march, he suddenly broke out of line two steps at an angle to his right. He removed the rifle from his shoulder, held it in his hands, and said very forcefully, “Stay behind the barrier!” A couple of seconds later, he repeated the command, at which a woman who had crossed into forbidden territory to get a better picture retreated to the area reserved for visitors. He then returned to his line and resumed his march. No apology, no explanation; the sign said “No Trespassing”; what part of “No” was not understood?

The trespass onto sacred secular soil was deemed unacceptable. The dignity of the place demanded order and an observance of that order. Once again, I do not advocate this kind of rigid, cold enforcement, but the dignity of our churches needs to be fostered and preserved. The dignity of this sacred place will be lost as the sacredness of the area around the tomb would quickly be lost, if there is not a decided effort to preserve it.

Comparing the children greeting the President-elect to what goes on in the Mass is like comparing apples to onions. The two are not even on the same level. Again, it is as though we have collectively lost our regard for the sacred.

 

[DebChris]

As already mentioned, David’s dance appeared unseemly to many.

The Mass is much more than cultic ritual. It is a public celebration of Thanksgiving.

CCC1204 The celebration of the liturgy, therefore, should correspond to the genius and culture of the different peoples. In order that the mystery of Christ be “made known to all the nations…to bring about the obedience of faith,” it must be proclaimed, celebrated, and lived in all cultures in such a way that they themselves are not abolished by it, but redeemed and fulfilled. It is with and through their own human culture, assumed and transfigured by Christ, that the multitude of God’s children has access to the Father, in order to glorify him in one Spirit.

CCC1326 Finally, by the Eucharistic celebration we already unite ourselves with the heavenly liturgy, and anticipate eternal life, when God will be all in all.

During the Mass, we celebrate our redemption. This gift we have received is greater than that of the Israelites who celebrated their freedom after crossing the Red Sea.

 

[DebChris]

What’s next? Singing?

While St. Francis enjoyed singing, St. Ignatius did prefer that even music be removed from the Mass.

 

[benedictgal]

As already mentioned, David’s dance appeared unseemly to many.

The Mass is much more than cultic ritual. It is a public celebration of Thanksgiving.

CCC1204 The celebration of the liturgy, therefore, should correspond to the genius and culture of the different peoples. In order that the mystery of Christ be “made known to all the nations…to bring about the obedience of faith,” it must be proclaimed, celebrated, and lived in all cultures in such a way that they themselves are not abolished by it, but redeemed and fulfilled. It is with and through their own human culture, assumed and transfigured by Christ, that the multitude of God’s children has access to the Father, in order to glorify him in one Spirit.

CCC1326 Finally, by the Eucharistic celebration we already unite ourselves with the heavenly liturgy, and anticipate eternal life, when God will be all in all.

During the Mass, we celebrate our redemption. This gift we have received is greater than that of the Israelites who celebrated their freedom after crossing the Red Sea.

With all due respect, the citations from the Catechism don’t quite make the argument. In fact, neither does David. David didn’t do what he did within the context of the cultic sacrificial worship of Ancient Israel, something that seems to be ignored in these posts.

Celebrating our redemption is not the same as breaking out into applause. The Church sees celebration in an entirely different context. We celebrate the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass with dignity, solemnity and majesty because we are encountering something totally different.

Perhaps this section from Sacramentum Caritatis, written by Pope Benedict XVI, might help:

1. Emphasizing the importance of the ars celebrandi also leads to an appreciation of the value of the liturgical norms. (121) The ars celebrandi should foster a sense of the sacred and the use of outward signs which help to cultivate this sense, such as, for example, the harmony of the rite, the liturgical vestments, the furnishings and the sacred space. The eucharistic celebration is enhanced when priests and liturgical leaders are committed to making known the current liturgical texts and norms, making available the great riches found in the General Instruction of the Roman Missal and the Order of Readings for Mass. Perhaps we take it for granted that our ecclesial communities already know and appreciate these resources, but this is not always the case. These texts contain riches which have preserved and expressed the faith and experience of the People of God over its two-thousand-year history. Equally important for a correct ars celebrandi is an attentiveness to the various kinds of language that the liturgy employs: words and music, gestures and silence, movement, the liturgical color s of the vestments. By its very nature the liturgy operates on different levels of communication which enable it to engage the whole human person. The simplicity of its gestures and the sobriety of its orderly sequence of signs communicate and inspire more than any contrived and inappropriate additions. Attentiveness and fidelity to the specific structure of the rite express both a recognition of the nature of Eucharist as a gift and, on the part of the minister, a docile openness to receiving this ineffable gift.

Notice how the Holy Father places an emphasis on sobriety during the liturgy, making it an important component. The Most Holy Eucharist is more than just a public celebration of thanksgiving. It is the Church’s highest and most important prayer and, as such, it deserves to be treated with reverence, solemnity and respect.

 

[DebChris]

What’s next? Singing?

While St. Francis may have enjoyed a good song, St. Ignatius preferred music be removed entirely from the Mass.

As you have seen, I view the Mass as celebration.
Silence (even when the heart wants to shout) is the only appropriate response for Adoration before the Blessed Sacrament. That is a time of simply listening to what God has to say to each of us.

 

[DebChris]

What’s next? Singing?

While St. Francis enjoyed a good song. St. Ignatius did prefer that all music be removed from Mass. As you see, I do view the Mass as a celebration of the ultimate gift that we have received.

Eucharistic Adoration, on the other hand, does call for complete silence. It is a time to listen to what God has to teach each of our hearts.

 

[JPUSC]

Wow, you just lost all credibility when you started comparing God the Almighty and the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass to Obama and children. So that’s how you view Mr. President-Elect, huh? Like God?

So what if the children are excited? I’ve seen the same reaction towards Miley Cyrus.

 

[DebChris]

Wow, you just lost all credibility when you started comparing God the Almighty and the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass to Obama and children. So that’s how you view Mr. President-Elect, huh? Like God?

So what if the children are excited? I’ve seen the same reaction towards Miley Cyrus.

God is greater than any man and the reception that we give him should far surpass that given to any earthly king, leader, or celebrity.

 

[DebChris]

Wow, you just lost all credibility when you started comparing God the Almighty and the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass to Obama and children. So that’s how you view Mr. President-Elect, huh? Like God?

So what if the children are excited? I’ve seen the same reaction towards Miley Cyrus.

You missed the point. God is greater than any man. The reception that we give Him should far surpass what we accord any earthly king, leader, or celebrity.

 

[DebChris]

Wow, you just lost all credibility when you started comparing God the Almighty and the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass to Obama and children. So that’s how you view Mr. President-Elect, huh? Like God?

So what if the children are excited? I’ve seen the same reaction towards Miley Cyrus.

You missed the point. God is greater than any man. We should be giving Him a greater accord and reception than any earthly king, leader, or celebrity. We should be excited about our own Faith and what we have already received.
To Him belongs all the Honor, Glory, and Praise.

 

[JPUSC]

I think we would just be better off not making any comparisons between God and people. I wouldn’t even have put such a holy man as Pope John Paul II in the same light.

 

[DebChris]

Psalm 100:
Shout joyfully to the Lord, all you lands,
worship the Lord with cries of gladness;
come before him with joyful song.
Know that the Lord is God,
our maker to whom we belong,
whose people we are, God’s well-tended flock.
Enter the temple gates with praise,
its courts with thanksgiving.
Give thanks to the God, bless his name;
good indeed is the Lord,
Whose love endures forever;
whose faithfulness lasts through every age.

 

[Tsuwano]

What’s a “folk mass”?

I can’t find any such thing in the Sacramentary.

You’re right. The Sacramentary does not describe a mass as either “folk” or “traditional.” But they seem to exist nonetheless.

 

[Tsuwano]

However, you don’t have to clap or do some sort of public manifestation to have joy. Clapping is problematic because it goes too much into the horizontal and it makes us the focus rather than God.

You’re right. It is not necessary to clap in order to manifest joy, but neither is it a sin. Clapping can indeed be problematic, if it is done at the wrong time during a liturgy for instance, but I do not think clapping during a recessional in the kind of mass as described in the thread is inappropriate. I also think we should remember that the liturgy is communal and takes place within the confines of a faith community. As such, there must be some degree of “horizontal” focus in our gathering. It would be a poor liturgy indeed if we did not acknowledge our neighbors when we gather to worship God. Secondly, we should remember that God is also present with our neighbors and and it takes nothing away from our worship of God to acknowledge his presence in those we worship with. Third, the idea that clapping at appropriate times during the liturgy is overly “horizontal” and takes our focus away from God is a matter of opinion. I have never found that sharing joy with my brothers and sisters during the liturgy takes my focus away from God. Indeed, I have found that it enhances my worship of God and underscores the great gift of love that he has given us in one another. If we can’t find God within our neighbors, it will be very difficult to find him even in the most sublime of liturgies.

 

[benedictgal]

You’re right. It is not necessary to clap in order to manifest joy, but neither is it a sin. Clapping can indeed be problematic, if it is done at the wrong time during a liturgy for instance, but I do not think clapping during a recessional in the kind of mass as described in the thread is inappropriate. I also think we should remember that the liturgy is communal and takes place within the confines of a faith community. As such, there must be some degree of “horizontal” focus in our gathering. It would be a poor liturgy indeed if we did not acknowledge our neighbors when we gather to worship God. Secondly, we should remember that God is also present with our neighbors and and it takes nothing away from our worship of God to acknowledge his presence in those we worship with. Third, the idea that clapping at appropriate times during the liturgy is overly “horizontal” and takes our focus away from God is a matter of opinion. I have never found that sharing joy with my brothers and sisters during the liturgy takes my focus away from God. Indeed, I have found that it enhances my worship of God and underscores the great gift of love that he has given us in one another. If we can’t find God within our neighbors, it will be very difficult to find him even in the most sublime of liturgies.

However, clapping does have a horizontal approach. Look at the Mass like the cross. The vertical and horizontal elements are not equal. The vertical is much larger than the horizontal.

We don’t need to be clapping our hands to express joy. In fact we really don’t need to do much, only to allow ourselves to be assimilated into the salviffic action that unfolds before us at every Mass. Furthermore, clapping tends to lessen the solemnity of what we are doing. I would invite you to re-read the segments from the speech that I posted from Archbishop Rajith. His words are consistent with what Francis Cardinal Arinze and the Holy Father have said.

 

[DebChris]

You’re right. It is not necessary to clap in order to manifest joy, but neither is it a sin. Clapping can indeed be problematic, if it is done at the wrong time during a liturgy for instance, but I do not think clapping during a recessional in the kind of mass as described in the thread is inappropriate. I also think we should remember that the liturgy is communal and takes place within the confines of a faith community. As such, there must be some degree of “horizontal” focus in our gathering. It would be a poor liturgy indeed if we did not acknowledge our neighbors when we gather to worship God. Secondly, we should remember that God is also present with our neighbors and and it takes nothing away from our worship of God to acknowledge his presence in those we worship with. Third, the idea that clapping at appropriate times during the liturgy is overly “horizontal” and takes our focus away from God is a matter of opinion. I have never found that sharing joy with my brothers and sisters during the liturgy takes my focus away from God. Indeed, I have found that it enhances my worship of God and underscores the great gift of love that he has given us in one another. If we can’t find God within our neighbors, it will be very difficult to find him even in the most sublime of liturgies.

Thank you.
That has likewise been my experience. How can I love the God I have not seen if I do not first love the brother that I do see? “This is the commandment we have from him; whoever loves God must also love his brother.” (1 John 4: 21).
By virtue of our Baptism, God does indeed dwell in each of us. We worship as a community. The Mass is a communal celebration.
The Word became flesh and dwelt among us. By the gift of the Holy Spirit, He continues to dwell within each of us.

 

[benedictgal]

Thank you.
That has likewise been my experience. How can I love the God I have not seen if I do not first love the brother that I do see? “This is the commandment we have from him; whoever loves God must also love his brother.” (1 John 4: 21).
By virtue of our Baptism, God does indeed dwell in each of us. We worship as a community. The Mass is a communal celebration.
The Word became flesh and dwelt among us. By the gift of the Holy Spirit, He continues to dwell within each of us.

However, we worship as a community and not the community. Clapping in and of itself has no place in the Mass unless the rituals embedded within the Mass make specific reference to it (ordinations, erections of a new diocese, RCIA and acceptance of a new bishop).

Archbishop Rajith made some very valid observations concerning the human element. Given his high position in the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, his words shouldn’t be taken too lightly:

(Ars Celebrandi) entered liturgical vocabulary as something that expresses the necessary human action in Liturgy. In a socio-cultural context that tends to reduce the importance given to the role of the divine in human life and which gives pride of place to that which is essentially human and “this worldly”, the danger in positing a so-called art of celebrating to liturgy, in a purely humanistic sense is not minimal. Indeed if Ars Celebrandi is to be understood as something based on human skills only, then we have missed the point altogether.

Here is where he makes his strongest case against an over-emphasis on the horizontal:

The Pope, in his book, “The Spirit of the Liturgy” defines Actuosa Participio as a call to a total assimilation in the very action of Christ the High Priest. It is in no way a call to activism, a misunderstanding that spread widely in the aftermath of “Sacrosanctum Concilium”. Stated Cardinal Ratzinger: "what does it (active participation) mean? Unfortunately the word was very quickly misunderstood to mean something external, entailing a need for general activity, as if as many people as possible, as often as possible should be engaged in action.

We know that in many places this led to the amalgamation of the Sanctuary with the Assembly, the clericalisation of the laity and the filling up of the Sanctuary with the noisy and distracting presence of a large number of people; one could say that virtually Wall Street moved into the Sanctuary."

While he doesn’t specifically address the issue of clapping, the notion that Wall Street has moved into the Sanctuary is very appropriate to this thread. By this statement, he means that we have lost a regard for the sacred. It’s not about not loving our neighbor, but, we have to remember that the first commandment above all else is to love God.

Loving God means, first and foremost, offering Him fitting worship, a pleasing and acceptable Sacrifice. Out of this love for God should flow a love for neighbor, but, one cannot and should not put the love of neighbor ahead of the love of God. God comes first.

 

[DebChris]

As Post #52 states, remembering that God is in our neighbor “takes nothing away from our worship of God.” If anything, it enhances our worship as we forgive and become reconciled to one another. Wherever two or more are gathered in His name, God is in our midst. It is that focus on God alone that lifts our hearts as a community. Nobody on this thread has suggested anything less.
What we have suggested is being totally and completely open to the Love with has been offered to us, thankful for the gift that we have already received. At times, that thankfulness may be expressed with jubilant praise. At other times, especially during the Consecration, it is expressed with complete attentiveness to what God has done and is doing for us.
Do not stifle the Spirit.