Priest endorsing ordination of women in homily

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Do not “report” him to the Bishop. ASK the Bishop to explain/clarify the priest’s position in light of the Notification on women ordained as deacons issued by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments and the Congregation for Clerggy. Pope John Paul II signed off on it on September 14, 2001.
 
Aramis said:
REPORT HIM TO THE BISHOP!!!

He’s a heretic if he supports women being ordained past the order of Deaconess.

If your bishop supports this, report them both to Rome.
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Ditto. I’m amazed clergymen even dares to go against the Vatican on ordination, the TLM, etc. But than I remember Judas.
 
Cristiano said:
I need to repeat the question again. Can you provide the details of the rite of ordination. I am not in disagreement with you, I believe that there were Deaconesses but I have not seen any evidence of them as ever being part of the Holy Orders and that is why I am asking information about the imposition of the hands.
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Female Deacons were used for a while by some Churches in the early Church for the baptism of women. Since a great many if not all of the baptisms done in those days were conducted by full immersion and in the the nude, the use of females to perform them for females was seen as positive by some and an affront to God by others. The practice didn’t last long and the female Deacons were not considered to be a part of Holy Orders.

The Churches that used female deacons used as justification for this practice a story from the Acts of Paul and Thecla, in which a young woman, Thecla, facing death at the hands or rather paws of a lion in the arena, realized that she had never been baptized and jumped into a vat full of water and man eating seals :eek: that was there in the arena for some reason, in order to baptize herself. She was saved when a mighty bolt of lightening hit the water, killed the seals but miraculously left Thecla unscathed:thumbsup: 👍

The Acts of Paul and Thecla were widely read and used in many of the early Churches but for some reason didn’t make it into the Canon of scripture that we have today.

Gee I wonder why? :confused: :confused:

Anyway, many of those who support female ordination use the book as evidence that the early Church may have had female priests as well as Deacons and that fact has been long suppressed by the Church.

As an aside, the book is enjoyable to read:thumbsup: 👍
 
Let me gently point out that this is not a thread about deaconesses. If you want to discuss that, start your own thread.

To the OP: I agree with those who say you should send a copy of both letters to your Bishop. Give him some time to respond - Bishops are busy people.

If the response is not satisfactory, try the St. Joseph Foundation. They may be able to help.

God bless you,

Ruthie
 
Thanks for all of your responses (at least those not about deaconesses). That’s the thing that happens on these forums that makes me hesitant to ask questions. It seems they always get taken over by a completely different issue. Banter, banter, banter. Anyways, I believe I will ask for the bishop’s take on all this - specifically for his interpretation on the ordination of women and when it’s acceptable for a priest to deem an issue a matter of discipline when Rome says it’s doctrine. Shall I write directly to the bishop or is there usually an office devoted for this kind of thing?
 
andersonbd1 said:
Thanks for all of your responses (at least those not about deaconesses). That’s the thing that happens on these forums that makes me hesitant to ask questions. It seems they always get taken over by a completely different issue. Banter, banter, banter. Anyways, I believe I will ask for the bishop’s take on all this - specifically for his interpretation on the ordination of women and when it’s acceptable for a priest to deem an issue a matter of discipline when Rome says it’s doctrine. Shall I write directly to the bishop or is there usually an office devoted for this kind of thing?
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Your best bet is to write to the bishop. He needs to know that thsi is happening so that he can take the appropriate measures. There is no sense in confusing the faithful. The bishop should be the one addressing this matter.
 
Here, I found a verse which might be relevant.

Isaiah 66.5
“Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name’s sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed.”
 
Sadly; in Atlantic Canada in my local archdiocese in the province of New Brunswick (Moncton) I am confronted with my own liberal archbishop advocating the ordination of woman into the Church which is making national news…

cbc.ca/canada/new-brunswick/story/2008/12/24/nb-catholic-moncton.html?ref=rss

Moncton archbishop urged to ban women’s committee Wednesday, December 24, 2008 | 12:04 PM AT
CBC News Canada

A Roman Catholic group in the Archdicese of Moncton, New Brunswick Canada wants the city’s archbishop to abolish a committee that promotes women’s involvement in the church.

The group called Catholics United to Peter catholicsunitedtopeter.com says the committee goes against Vatican law by promoting the ordination of women as priests ? A cause that the committee says it does not promote.

The group recently sent a petition of 200 signatures to Archbishop André Richard, urging him to prohibit the activities of the Committee of Women in the Church. But Archbishop André Richard says he has no plans to do so.

[Edited]

…

Aside from prayer I don’t know what to say further.
Strong convincing evidence has show that those who have a deep concern for the future of Canada’s Roman Catholic Church and those who have voiced concerns to the Vatican Nuncio in Ottawa Canada are getting no replies. What’s happening to our Church ?
I have heard of conservative Catholics from here in Canada, United States, United Kingdom, and Australia prognosticate that the present Catholic Church is on the not too far distant verge of Splitting if not collapse. I find this unnervingly difficult to believe.
Was it not Jesus who said to Peter; Matthew 16: v 18. Thou art Peter, and upon this Rock I will build My Church and the Gates of Hell will not prevail against Her.
 
centurionguard said:
[Archbishop] Richard said he’s not in a position to discipline and he doesn’t want the church to seem authoritarian.
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If he’s not in a position to discipline the members of his archdiocese, WHO IS?! And a person can exercise his authority properly and justly without giving the impression of being an “authoritarian”. Authority isn’t bad.
 
andersonbd1 said:
Our priest every so often in his homilies often issues a scolding to the Church about not ordaining women and says he’s embarassed that it hasn’t happened yet. I recently asked him via a letter to keep his opinions out of the homily and stick with Church teaching. I referenced Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, but didn’t get too heavy on the argument because I figured he’d disagree anyways. Sure enough, he responded that the ordination of women is a discipline (not a doctrine) and that JP2 (among others) was wrong to say the decision is final… implying that eventually the Church will be liberated. I really don’t think the best strategy is to get into a debate, but maybe it is. Please don’t respond by telling me why the church should or shouldn’t ordain women. I already have lots of resources if debate is the way to go. I’m more interested in asking others what I should do. Should I just suck it up and try to ignore it? Or is it my duty to “do something”? Based on what I know of our bishop, I doubt he cares. That’s just my guess based on the little I know of him and it would be consistent with the extremely liberal seminary in our diocese, I’m at a loss for what to do. Of course I am praying a lot about it. I’m trying to discern whether I need more temperance or fortitude. I definitely need prudence in these matter. What do you think?
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There was a little document publiched by the USCCB explaining the Popes decision and it’s permanent effect. You might try and find it, so it’s not looked at as only your interpretation.
 
good idea. I found this:
A Pastoral Reflection on Women in the Church and in Society
usccb.org/laity/bonds.shtml

and it starts out:
Earlier this year the Holy Father issued the apostolic letter, Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, reaffirming the teaching and practice that priestly ordination is restricted to men. We bishops recognize this clear reaffirmation of Catholic teaching as a pastoral service to the whole Church, and we accept that it be definitively held by all the faithful.
 
japhy said:
If he’s not in a position to discipline the members of his archdiocese, WHO IS?! And a person can exercise his authority properly and justly without giving the impression of being an “authoritarian”. Authority isn’t bad.
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Hmmm; What can be said about SOME individuals who hold abusive authority and power.

Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely ! ! !
 
Increasingly as seen in today’s Church are Clergy members who have little or no backbone when it comes to upholding the teachings of the Magisterium of the Catholic Church.
Years ago I remember watching a televised interview in London, England between Pope John Paul II and BBC’s David Frost who asked the Holy Father why he wouldn’t consider the ordination of women into the Church ? In answer the Pope stated he nor any Pope had the authority to change laws in the Church on this matter because the Priesthood was instituted exclusively by Jesus Christ Himself. Therefore who in the Church has reason to question the wisdom of the Son of Almighty God on this matter ?
I would think that God’s wisdom outweighs any human estimation deliberating rational on questions concerning the institution of the Priesthood for men Only.
 
I will say that the Vatican doesn’t just ignore this. I’m from Louisiana and Fr. Roy Bourgeois, a priest from my brothers part of the state, was recently excommunicated for helping with a woman’s “ordination”. This of course is going much further…but if someone says it’s okay…then seems they would also be okay with doing it.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Bourgeois

From Wikipedia - “2008 In spite of the teaching of the Magisterium that the Church has no authority to ordain women to the priesthood and that “this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful”,[4] as also reflected in canon law 1024[5], in August 2008, Fr. Bourgeois participated in and delivered the homily at the (technically invalid) ordination ceremony of Janice Sevre-Duszynska, a “veteran agitator for women’s ordination” [6] and member of Womenpriests, at a Unitarian Universalist church in Lexington, Kentucky. [7] Fr. Bourgeois received a 30 days’ notice as of October 21, 2008 regarding possible excommunication for this action.[8]”

nytimes.com/2008/11/14/us/14priest.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1230642856-AJ1Bc7w/D0BMTO384g96Pw

ncregister.com/daily/maryknoll_excommunicated/

Does Maryknoll consider Father Roy Bourgeois to be excommunicated?
“We believe that he has been excommunicated. This was done by the CDF, not by us.”

As of today, Dec. 10?
“Yes.”

Have you heard from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith about it?
“There has been no direct communication from the CDF regarding that.”

Then why do you consider him excommunicated?
“Because he was given 30 days to recant his actions, and he had responded saying that he could not recant those actions, he has been excommunicated at the end of that” period of time.
 
HI Br, Rich SFO
I understand you know all that is to be known about what the Church has to say about the ordination of women priests. so I wont go there!
However under Canon Law we lay people are entilted to make a point and recieve a reasonable reply to our concerns, firstly through out Priest and then Bishop ect.( on issues or practices)
It takes a brave and enlightened person to stand on what he truly believes, so I shall pray for guidance for you.
Just as an example of courage I shall tell you about a Priest here in Ireland who is 70 yrs. old and has started a “Walk of Atonement” from Cork to Dublin ( which would be nearlly 200 Miles) His walk is show his sorrow for the victims of clerical child abuses here in Ireland. He is going in the true spirit of a pilgrim, just hoping someone will offer him a bed as he goes along. He is hoping that other Priests and lay people will join him. He hopes to arrive in Dublin in our Cathederal on 6th Jan the feast of the Epiphany. I admire him because he feels so deeply for the situation he is prepared to DO something about it:)
So take heart, pray and you will get courage to do what YOU think God wants you to do:) God Bless
 
I often wonder how many other people can attest to liturgical abuses in their diocese with the bishop not giving a hoot what goes on in his diocese because he is liberal himself ?

A copy of the following letter explains ONLY some of the abuses in my diocese :

Catholiques unis au Saint-Père/Catholics United to Peter Society
Conseil de Moncton Chapter

December 28, 2008

Dear members,

Since not all of you attended our last Annual Meeting on November 18, 2008, or have access to the internet, the Board of Directors agreed to send an annual letter to all members (by mail or internet) to keep you abreast of Chapter activities during the last year.

We sent a letter and an accompanying file to the Vatican in late Fall 2007 informing Church authorities of the state of the diocesan Church and requesting their intervention. 146 people signed the letter of support. No reply has been received to date.

Several letters were sent to the Archbishop, none of which have so far been acknowledged, concerning liturgical abuses (a lay person doing the homily, standing up at Consecration, the pouring of the Blood of Christ into various vessels, etc.) and erroneous teaching on the part of a particular priest concerning the effects of the Eucharist on the remittance of sins.

Verified, with a U.S. lay association providing canonical advice, the legitimacy of a United Church minister giving sessions in Sacred Scripture to Catholics (Rev. Farquhar). Their verdict: no problems as long as his teaching is in accord with the Catholic faith. It is the bishop’s responsibility to ensure that this is so.

The Archbishop has remained silent on the changes to be implemented in the diocese as the result of the consultative process carried out in the Fall of 2006. The only indication available is a comment made by Mrs. Louise Melanson in the diocesan journal, Connections, Summer 2007 edition, that some of the recommandations were “in the process of implementation”. The faithful remain completely in the dark as to the changes being considered or already implemented.

Researched the presence of New Age influences in the diocese, particularly in one parish cluster. Creation theology (The Coming of the Cosmic Christ by Matthew Fox) was condemned by the Church, yet books on this subject are being sold at the diocesan bookstore. Other authors include Diarmuid O’Murchu, Thomas Berry and Joyce Rupp. Information on these authors has been provided to the archbishop.

Lastly, the Vice-Chair and I presented the petition titled “So that all, with one heart, remain faithful to the teaching of the Apostles” to the Archbishop on December 16th. 189 people signed. While he listened attentively to our presentation, he did not commit himself one way or another. Following a story done by Canada’s CBC Radio last week, posted on their New Brunswick web site, we now know that “he isn’t planning to do anything about it; he doesn’t think the request represents most Catholics; he is not in a position to discipline and he doesn’t want the Church to appear authoritarian.”

Lasltly, I urge all of you to continue praying daily - and if possible, offer sacrifices - for our Pope, our Archbishop and our Priests because the most important part of our mission is PRAYER. Christ will only intervene if we ask him to!

Catholiques unis au Saint-Père/Catholics United to Peter Society
Conseil de Moncton Chapter
New Brunswick Canada

28 Décembre 2008

Bonne, Heureuse et Sainte Année à vous et votre famille!
James Ouellet, Président
 
ok, some time has elapsed since I originally posted, but I actually got a response from the bishop quicker than I would have guessed (especially given the holidays). Anyways, the bishop basically said to talk to the priest in person and he would explain it to me. So, I spoke with my priest in person today. I do not doubt that he is a very holy man. I really love him and think he’s acting in good faith. But the meeting pretty much consisted of him explaining to me that this discipline can (and will) change. That’s the way of the Church. We very cordially disagreed. Maybe I was a little too reserved, but I’d rather error on that side than on being too “in your face”. So, anyways, what shall I do now? I will take a look at the St. Joseph Foundation, but any other suggestions? Should I just let it go (knowing I did what I could) or do I need to do something else?

Thanks,
Ben
 
andersonbd1 said:
ok, some time has elapsed since I originally posted, but I actually got a response from the bishop quicker than I would have guessed (especially given the holidays). Anyways, the bishop basically said to talk to the priest in person and he would explain it to me. So, I spoke with my priest in person today. I do not doubt that he is a very holy man. I really love him and think he’s acting in good faith. But the meeting pretty much consisted of him explaining to me that this discipline can (and will) change. That’s the way of the Church. We very cordially disagreed. Maybe I was a little too reserved, but I’d rather error on that side than on being too “in your face”. So, anyways, what shall I do now? I will take a look at the St. Joseph Foundation, but any other suggestions? Should I just let it go (knowing I did what I could) or do I need to do something else?

Thanks,
Ben
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Ben,
One option is to write the bishop once again, explain to him that you did speak with the priest, and you still have concerns about his teaching (that much is obvious or you wouldn’t be posting today). You can certainly ask the bishop to clarify or verify what the priest is teaching.

Keep copies of all the letters written and received.
 
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