Priest facing people during the Mass

[MusicMan]

Dr. Bombay:

Then why did the Holy Father say he prefers a smaller Church?

Did he ever say that he “prefered” a smaller Church or that he expects to see a smaller Church in the future.

If the goal is to drive people out, then Deacon Ed is right, that is never really a choice. I don’t see anything Benedict is doing to have as it’s goal to drive people out or create a smaller Church. I think the Holy Father believes that the changes he intends to implement or the law he plans to enforce may cause people, as a side effect, to leave the Church. Because that is not the Holy Father’s goal, it shouldn’t be an issue.

There is always the “If you don’t like it, get out,” approach, but that doesn’t seem to be Benedict’s way of operating… his appears to be more of “I’m sorry you left because you didn’t like that I was enforcing the law of the Church and teaching the True Faith as it was intended.”

I, on the other hand, am quite well versed in the art of driving people out (of my band program) for the good of the order. In fact, I’m working on driving someone out right now… But that’s off-topic… my apologies.

 

[Marilena]

LatinCat:

Actually, the proper position is for the priest to be facing the altar. This was never changed liturgically but so many figured, “hey, so much has changed with Vatican II, we should change this too,” and it sorta stuck. But the priest is not to face the congregation. This takes the focus off God and puts it on the community. Bad idea. When the priest faces away from the people he acts as head of the community leading to people in the worhip of the Divine Lord through the Holy Sacrifice. I suggest you read “Spirit of the Liturgy” by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger (now his Holiness, Pope Benedict XVI).

 

[Marilena]

Dr. Bombay:

Then why did the Holy Father say he prefers a smaller Church?

Hello Doctor Bombay,

Do you have a link where our beloved Pope Benedict said this?

 

[wjp984]

I think he is refering to the statement when the pope said he prefered a smaller church of true catholics than a larger church comprised of all the cafeteria catholics. Anyone want to elaborate here?

 

[mosher]

JSmitty2005:

I agree (with the first part). Although this is a very regrettable change that I hope is returned to the way it should be, it’s not a matter of faith or morals so there’s no reason to think of it as being some kind of heresy. However, I think that some people in the Church need to be sternly corrected and then if they do not listen, be driven out of the Church like Our Lord drove them out of the temple or St. Patrick drove the snakes out of Ireland. The Church needs to undergo an earthly purgatory to cleanse itself b/c it’s in pretty rough shape. If that means ticking EDITpeople off and hurting peoples’ feelings b/c they don’t like what the Church teaches regarding the supposedly “sensitive” areas like sodomy and extra ecclesiam nulla salus, then so be it. Going to extremes to keep the # of Catholics high isn’t doing the Church any good. The gospel of tolerance has been preached for 40 years and it hasn’t helped the Churh much. We need to return to the old ways of doing things and stop tolerating dissidents.

Exactly. This should not mean that we do our best to drive people away but rather we should not have a lowest common denominator mentality. We need more Bishops that are willing to do local excommunications and exert ecclesial authority for the sake of orthodoxy. It is not about being “Happily Catholic” but rather it is about being happy to be Catholic. Error has no rights.

 

[JSmitty2005]

mosher:

Error has no rights.

It has a right to be destroyed by the faithful.

 

[buffalo]

MusicMan:

Did he ever say that he “prefered” a smaller Church or that he expects to see a smaller Church in the future.

If the goal is to drive people out, then Deacon Ed is right, that is never really a choice. I don’t see anything Benedict is doing to have as it’s goal to drive people out or create a smaller Church. I think the Holy Father believes that the changes he intends to implement or the law he plans to enforce may cause people, as a side effect, to leave the Church. Because that is not the Holy Father’s goal, it shouldn’t be an issue.

There is always the “If you don’t like it, get out,” approach, but that doesn’t seem to be Benedict’s way of operating… his appears to be more of “I’m sorry you left because you didn’t like that I was enforcing the law of the Church and teaching the True Faith as it was intended.”

I, on the other hand, am quite well versed in the art of driving people out (of my band program) for the good of the order. In fact, I’m working on driving someone out right now… But that’s off-topic… my apologies.

I understood it as he will accept a smaller Church rather than water down the teachings.

 

[puzzleannie]

mosher:

There has never been a directive from Rome stating that the priest is to face the naive of the Church .

this is and will remain my favorite statement ever posted here. Nothing so well describes the average Catholic in the pew subjected to all the innovations of the last 40 years.

My feeling is that the priest should conduct the Mass in all aspects as the norms prescribe. It would be a great and charitable thing if the reasons for innovations when they come (and the changes back to the “old way” when they happen) are explained to the faithful. There has been more damage done by the lack of catechesis on the Mass and the rationale for the innovations than by tha changes themselves. Otherwise, if the norms are being followed, the faithful should accept them and let the Church establish and revise the norms as it decides in its wisdom.

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

Here is an interesting read from Adoremus Bulletin.

Turning Towards the Lord - Orientation During Liturigcal Prayer

Most people, including myself previously, do not understand what is behind the priest and people facing ad orientem, or to the east.

I began to experience this kind of Mass before understanding it when I landed at Assumption Grotto in Detroit. I was caught up in an interior conflict. It seemed stifling for the priest to have his back to me, then suddenly, it seemed so right for him to be facing forward. It wasn’t until I began to read things like the above that I grew to understand it and fully embraced the ad orientem stance.

For me, it now is one less thing distracting me from focusing on God during the Mass. He should always be a the center. This is why dynamics on the part of the priest, including lots of eye contact with the congregation during the Eucharistic Prayer is not good. The EP is aimed at God not the people, but you would not know it by the way some priests celebrate. But, this is how they were taught - a kind of show acting. If they didn’t make eye contact with us when they said “Take this all of you and eat…” then we might fall asleep.

Not true.

Here is also a recent quote by Cardinal Arinze, also found at Adoremus Bulletin:

Post-Vatican II — Lights and Shadows
Cardinal Arinze observed that the liturgical reform following the Second Vatican Council brought “many good things”, such as more attention to Holy Scripture and more participation and understanding by the people. The Synod also recognized “shadows” – among them, the neglect of the Holy Eucharist outside of Mass, much ignorance, and “a lot of temptation to showmanship for the priest who celebrates facing the people”.

The cardinal explained, “If he is not very disciplined he will soon become a performer. He may not realize it, but he will be projecting himself rather than projecting Christ. Indeed it is very demanding, the altar facing the people”.