Priest made startling comment to me

[guanophore]

I disagree 100% with you stating that you don’t need a relationship with Jesus. Where then is your relationship? Where then is your faith, trust, hope, salvation if it is not through a relationship with Jesus? As Jesus states in Matt 7:23, “I never knew you, depart from me.” I hope you reconsider having a relationship with Jesus, the one from whom your salvation comes from.

Matthew 7:21-23

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

I think the truth is somewhere in between the Evangelical concept of the “personal relationship” (a phrase not found in Scripture) and not knowing and being known by Christ. It is not a “just Jesus and me - nobody else, just us” type of relationships. The point being made, I think is that we know Him through His One Body, the Church. Baptism incorporates us into His community/kingdom and it is a corporate relationship in which we know Him, and are known by Him.

Clearly, ,in reading the writings of the saints, all have a very personal relationship with the Lord, but all of these relations occur under the authority appointed by Christ,and within the One Church that He founded.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Don’t know what the priest in the OP actually meant, but my guess is that he is saying don’t worry how Catholic you look to other people.

If you focus on your “Catholic-Image,” to others, you miss the point of being Catholic and that is devotion to Jesus Christ.

Some people have an ego-identity attachment to Catholicism. Their focus is on the image they present to others.

As a result, they become very offensive if anyone questions or criticizes Catholicism.

We should be Catholic because we desire to grow closer to Jesus Christ and to allow His transforming grace into our lives.

We we have tasted His divine love, we will be like lovers who take on the characteristics of their beloved and in Christ, this is love.

We will begin to love others as he loves.

This is the heart of Catholicism, not images that we create and try to live up to.

I think this is the message the priest in the OP was trying to convey.

Jim

 

[Della]

I disagree 100% with you stating that you don’t need a relationship with Jesus. Where then is your relationship? Where then is your faith, trust, hope, salvation if it is not through a relationship with Jesus? As Jesus states in Matt 7:23, “I never knew you, depart from me.” I hope you reconsider having a relationship with Jesus, the one from whom your salvation comes from.

Matthew 7:21-23

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

And what was Jesus talking about in Mt. 7? Was it a one time acceptance of him as “personal Lord and Savior” or was it DOING what he commands us to do? And what is that? Doing the will of his Father.

Certainly we can have what can be termed a personal relationship, but it is not from a one time repentance and then all’s well. Believing in Christ means DOING as he commanded. And what did he command? That all be baptized–pretty important since he commanded it and St. Paul described it as dying and rising with Christ. Sounds like something happens beyond getting wet and being a witness.

God’s grace bathes the soul at baptism allowing it to be cleansed and marked for Christ. After that it is up to us to keep our souls clean through cooperating with God’s grace and we do that by availing ourselves of the sacraments Christ founded… If we must rely on an undefined “personal relationship” to be saved how can the mentally disabled, the toddler or the illiterate hope to have such a relationship since it depends on knowing things they cannot know? Whereas baptism, which Christ commanded we receive, “which now saves us” (1Pt. 3:21), only requires us to do what Jesus commanded us to do–to receive it.

When we are baptized we are made friends of God and co-heirs with Christ. By doing what he commands us to do we get to know him–in prayer and in obedience. You should read the great saints because there you will find people who loved God to the max, many giving their lives for him. As others have pointed out, there is no more personal experience of Christ than receiving his body and blood, soul and divinity in the Eucharist. We must be properly disposed to receive him as St. Paul told us–coming before God in humility, having confessed our mortals sins. And God often grants us reawakenings to faith in him, but these are termed “consolations” and while nice to have they have no influence on our salvation at all.

 

[JRKH]

Have to admit that it’s interesting watching people “read into” what others are saying…There might be some basis for it but still…



SJacob7 misunderstands Della’s comment - thinking that she is saying that we DON’T need a “relationship with Jesus” and then Della replies addressing things that SJacob7 has not said. SJacob7 has said nothing about a “one time repentance and then all’s well”. Neither did Micko in his post.

As I said, there might be a basis for making such assumptions…l but I have found it more productive to stick with what is actually said.

Bottom line is that we DO need a personal relationship with Jesus. We desire to be filled with His Holy Spirit and we embrace it when it comes.

Just my 2 cents worth…

Peace
James

 

[Della]

Have to admit that it’s interesting watching people “read into” what others are saying…There might be some basis for it but still…



SJacob7 misunderstands Della’s comment - thinking that she is saying that we DON’T need a “relationship with Jesus” and then Della replies addressing things that SJacob7 has not said. SJacob7 has said nothing about a “one time repentance and then all’s well”. Neither did Micko in his post.

As I said, there might be a basis for making such assumptions…l but I have found it more productive to stick with what is actually said.

Bottom line is that we DO need a personal relationship with Jesus. We desire to be filled with His Holy Spirit and we embrace it when it comes.

Just my 2 cents worth…

Peace
James

Thank you for your 2 cents, but as one who used to believe as S.Jacob7 does I know what he means by having a “personal relationship” with Christ. Those who believe like him believe that they say a one time prayer of repentance and acceptance of Christ as their “personal Lord and Savior” and so cannot lose their salvation after that. That is what he means by a “personal relationship” with Christ not what a Catholic means. This is why I don’t like the expression–because it doesn’t help him and others like him to move beyond their limited understanding of living for Christ and keeps them from the sacraments. When we are baptized Christ enters into us. Repentance is for the remission of sin. Consolations in prayer are nice but they are not necessary to anyone’s salvation. It helps to know what people mean by the terms they use.

 

[SJacob7]

Thank you for your 2 cents, but as one who used to believe as S.Jacob7 does I know what he means by having a “personal relationship” with Christ. Those who believe like him believe that they say a one time prayer of repentance and acceptance of Christ as their “personal Lord and Savior” and so cannot lose their salvation after that. That is what he means by a “personal relationship” with Christ not what a Catholic means. This is why I don’t like the expression–because it doesn’t help him and others like him to move beyond their limited understanding of living for Christ and keeps them from the sacraments. When we are baptized Christ enters into us. Repentance is for the remission of sin. Consolations in prayer are nice but they are not necessary to anyone’s salvation. It helps to know what people mean by the terms they use.

You have absolutely no idea what I believe. Maybe you can get away with making these accusations because you have been around here so long. I find it very offensive for you to presume my faith and believes.

 

[Della]

You have absolutely no idea what I believe. Maybe you can get away with making these accusations because you have been around here so long. I find it very offensive for you to presume my faith and believes.

I know from what you have posted about salvation and having a personal relationship with Christ. You know what I believe from what I’ve posted. I’m not offended, why should you be? If you don’t believe having a personal relationship with Christ is necessary for salvation all you have to do is say so.

 

[SJacob7]

I know from what you have posted about salvation and having a personal relationship with Christ. You know what I believe from what I’ve posted. I’m not offended, why should you be? If you don’t believe having a personal relationship with Christ is necessary for salvation all you have to do is say so.

I’m very happy with my relationship with Jesus. If you chose not to have one, that’s your choice, but I don’t agree with it.

Revelation 3:20

Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if any one hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.

So we shouldn’t have a relationship with Him?

 

[Della]

I’m very happy with my relationship with Jesus. If you chose not to have one, that’s your choice, but I don’t agree with it.

I never said I don’t have a relationship with Jesus. Now who is assuming? What I’ve said is that one’s salvation is not dependent on having such a relationship as you understand it.

Revelation 3:20

Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if any one hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.

So we shouldn’t have a relationship with Him?

Lovely verse, one of my favorites. And what does Jesus invite us to do? Eat with him. Eat what? What communion is he talking about? He says nothing about a personal relationship of the kind you mean, assuming you mean merely inviting him into one’s heart. He says he will be with us and eat with us. Well, he is with us first in baptism and then in the Eucharist. Sounds like the ancient Church’s (the Catholic Church) understanding of having a personal relationship with Christ to me. :yup:

You see, what you spiritualize away we actually believe.

 

[JRKH]

I’m very happy with my relationship with Jesus. If you chose not to have one, that’s your choice, but I don’t agree with it.

See - - now this gets back to my original question to you. Where did Della say that she doesn’t have or doesn’t choose to have a relationship with Jesus?

Let’s not deal in assumptions…let’s deal in facts - what has been written.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Are you folks just going to argue with each other or are you going to address the OP’s concern ?

Jim

 

[Della]

Are you folks just going to argue with each other or are you going to address the OP’s concern ?

Jim

We did get a bit off track here, but if a non-Catholic is going to post his views in a thread directed primarily at Catholics members are going to respond. I think the OP’s concerns have been answered, so the moderator may wish to close the thread or split it. We’ll see. :tiphat:

 

[z_0101]

Are you folks just going to argue with each other or are you going to address the OP’s concern ?

Jim

Jim,
The way I see it, until OP provides some more information about the entire conversation all we’re going to get in this thread is one argument over another.

 

[SJacob7]

See - - now this gets back to my original question to you. Where did Della say that she doesn’t have or doesn’t choose to have a relationship with Jesus?

Let’s not deal in assumptions…let’s deal in facts - what has been written.

Here are the ‘facts’ that were stated. The last line sums it up and why I responded the way I did.

That’s not all that Jesus said to Nicodemus. He goes on to tell him just what he meant by being “born again” in which he said nothing at all about any “personal relationship” with anybody. You are reading verse 16through your Baptist lenses and omitting verses that don’t line up with that interpretation. The true interpretation is that baptism is the initiation into God’s kingdom not a “personal relationship” with God–whatever that’s supposed to mean. Jesus commanded the Apostles to go and baptize all nations in the name of the Holy Trinity. He said nothing at all about telling people they need a “personal relationship” with anybody.

 

[JRKH]

Here are the ‘facts’ that were stated. The last line sums it up and why I responded the way I did.

That’s not all that Jesus said to Nicodemus. He goes on to tell him just what he meant by being “born again” in which he said nothing at all about any “personal relationship” with anybody. You are reading verse 16through your Baptist lenses and omitting verses that don’t line up with that interpretation. The true interpretation is that baptism is the initiation into God’s kingdom not a “personal relationship” with God–whatever that’s supposed to mean. Jesus commanded the Apostles to go and baptize all nations in the name of the Holy Trinity. He said nothing at all about telling people they need a “personal relationship” with anybody.

And just where in this does Della say that she chooses not to have a personal relationship with Jesus? (Which is what you say she has done.)

What I see above is her attempt to discuss what the bible passage in question actually says and means…

Peace
James