'Priest' or 'Father'...What to call him?

[Vincent]

We don’t call priests “Father” in the same way we call God “Father”. The spiritual fatherhood of priests finds its source in the Eternal Fatherhood of God. By calling priests, Father, we are acknowledging the Fatherhood of Him who is Father for all eternity.

However, if we start calling priests “Father” in the same way we call God “Father,” then we’re on the wrong track. But I know of no Catholic who, in calling priests “Father” confuses the fatherhood of priests, with the Fatherhood of God, the only Fatherhood which makes all other human fatherhoods spiritual and physical, possible.

 

[hawkeye]

asor:

Can someone enlighten me on this one. I have some serious doubts about calling a priest ‘Father’. I feel that only God is worthy of being embraced with such a title in the religious arena. I’m a cradle Catholic, but I’m not too sure about this one. I’ll continue to pray on it.

I’m not personally bothered about calling a priest father, like calling a nun reverend mother, but read this link, maybe it will shed some light on it.
I’ve called priests father for so long now that it would seem a bit strange to go up to him and say " hows it going there old buddy"

catholic.com/library/Call_No_Man_Father.asp

 

[rfk]

This gets to the point by an indirect route, so bear with me.

Last weekend, I took my family to a Latin High Mass from the 1962 Missal (properly indulted of course). It was the first time I’ve been to one since the big changeover to English, although it brought back a lot of memories from being an altar boy in the 60’s.

Well, this 150 year-old parish still has the traditional altar that was so breathtakingly beautiful that it looked like a portal to heaven. The traditional communion rail set off that definate boundary to the sanctuary, emphasizing that this is sacred space.

As I knelt, praying and watching the consecration, I watched this priest facing heaven, raising the Host, then the chalice, while two other concelebrating priests knelt on the floor below him. I was really struck by the sense that I was a witness, privileged to be able to see this miraculous and sacred interaction between heaven and earth.

It brought back to me the sense of awe and respect that I remember being taught about priests. That this priest was truly set apart by the miracle of Holy Orders and interacted with God in a way that no ordinary man ever could. I remember being taught that his thumb and first two fingers were anointed and actually able to touch the Body and Blood of Christ! That this priest tended his flock and acted In Persona Christi (‘In the person of Christ’) as he administered the sacred sacraments.

It would have never dawned on me to question whether I should call him “Father” when we still had a sense of the sacredness of the priesthood. And I mean to use capital “F”, Father. Even as a pre-schooler, I understood the difference between “Father so-and-so” and “God, Our Heavenly Father”. To think that people could confuse the two is silly – such a person should get out of the ivory tower and back to common sense.

Now let me move forward to 2004. At our parish’s regular 9:00 am Sunday Mass, there are 11 lay people standing up around the altar and the priest, serving as Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion. We watch lay people walk up to the podium and read the first and second readings and sing the psalms. (For those who have never seen the traditional Latin Mass, the priest does all the readings.) We’ve lost that feeling of sacred space and completely blurred the lines between the priesthood and ordinary people, helping to make the priesthood ordinary.

And that is a Mass that is mostly free of liturgical abuse. I’ve sat through other Masses in the last 35 years where I’ve listened to militant lesbians, and other lay people, read the Gospel and preach a homily. I’ve seen liturgical dancers prancing around the altar. All of this help us lose that sense of awe for what it means to be a priest.

When we combine these liturgical differences with knowing priests who never wear the collar, or act in other ways to show their basic disrespect or disdain for orthodox teachings, or their disdain for the Holy Pontiff, or even – heaven help us – perform egregious sexual sins, then no wonder we start questioning whether he should be called little “f” father.

And no wonder being a priest doesn’t seem as attractive for a vocation.

 

[Apologia100]

Redeemerslove:

Hey how do I get rep points? I posted more than you.

You receive reputation points when you post answers that are either theologically sound and someone chooses to add to your reputation because of your answer, or the opposite (good/bad reputation). If you have posted often, but received no reputation points, it is possibly because your answers are vague or too brief to consider building a reputation as an apologist. If you want to add to your reputation, answer less often, but more thoroughly, and ensure that your answer is in line with the Magisterium.

 

[asor]

o_witness:

BADLY WORDED QUESTION.

Because you explicitly say “…be called Father”, it seems you are referring to the role of our heavenly Father. When we call a man father, what is the intention of the name you are giving a person? If the intention is calling a man Father(God), then it is not good.

The correct answer to your poll is
Catholic or Not, only God is worthy of this title.

This is a Dangerous poll.
Non-Catholics can use this to incorrectly show that we call our priests “Father” when we actually call him father(our religious father, among other things.)

Of course why do you capitalize P in priest? All this is technicality. If you are just being casual with your use of capitalization, I would assume the spirit of your poll is an innocent one.

This is a Dangerous poll.

Non-Catholics can use this to incorrectly show that we call our priests “Father” when we actually call him father(our religious father, among other things.)

Of course why do you capitalize P in priest? All this is technicality. If you are just being casual with your use of capitalization, I would assume the spirit of your poll is an innocent one.

Hi, o_witness. Thanks for your comments. However, my concern was not a grammatical one.

~ Why capital ‘P’? Well, it’s the beginning of a sentence.
~ The use of ‘father’ vs ‘Father’: Again, correct grammar should play a role in how we address someone, especially when a proper name is used (ex: my father, Joe, vs Father Joe, Mr. Joe, Sargeant Joe, etc.). I guess it’s the title Father (because it is correctly capitalized when addressing a priest in the Church) that doesn’t convince me. Even if it is a title placed on a priest, why (what meaning is conveyed with it, according to the Catholic Church,)?..that’s my puzzlement. Again, I guess I’ll continue to pray on it. I agree that it’s how one embraces the name/meaning, but when the title Father is placed on an individual, that in itself has added a new meaning altogether, as opposed to stating, Reverend John or Pastor John is our fatherly priest." It just doesn’t seem to fit when it’s applied to a religious figure who serves the true Father. For example, “I come to you, Father John, to ask our Father to …” The closest I can come to would be a ‘fatherly figure’ played by a priest in guiding us in the right direction, but then a different title would have been more appropriate (Leader, Pastor, Reverend, etc.) Sorry, I’ll get it sorted out. I just wanted to hear from others on their thoughts. I apoligize if I offended anyone. This was not at all my intention.
Thanks for responding.
Asor

 

[asor]

Vincent:

We don’t call priests “Father” in the same way we call God “Father”. The spiritual fatherhood of priests finds its source in the Eternal Fatherhood of God. By calling priests, Father, we are acknowledging the Fatherhood of Him who is Father for all eternity.

However, if we start calling priests “Father” in the same way we call God “Father,” then we’re on the wrong track. But I know of no Catholic who, in calling priests “Father” confuses the fatherhood of priests, with the Fatherhood of God, the only Fatherhood which makes all other human fatherhoods spiritual and physical, possible.

Hi, Vincent. Thanks for your response. I especially liked your closing line, “EVERY NEW THING KNOWN ABOUT GOD IS A NEW REASON FOR LOVING HIM. — FRANK SHEED .” I guess this fact has hit me rather strongly. I’ve learned soooooo much about Him (and have so much more to learn), and have especially started feeling/living His love that I feel uncomfortable with anything that touches on comparison to God, especially after reading Isaiah 40:12…

Asor

 

[asor]

rfk:

This gets to the point by an indirect route, so bear with me.

Last weekend, I took my family to a Latin High Mass from the 1962 Missal (properly indulted of course). It was the first time I’ve been to one since the big changeover to English, although it brought back a lot of memories from being an altar boy in the 60’s.

Well, this 150 year-old parish still has the traditional altar that was so breathtakingly beautiful that it looked like a portal to heaven. The traditional communion rail set off that definate boundary to the sanctuary, emphasizing that this is sacred space.

As I knelt, praying and watching the consecration, I watched this priest facing heaven, raising the Host, then the chalice, while two other concelebrating priests knelt on the floor below him. I was really struck by the sense that I was a witness, privileged to be able to see this miraculous and sacred interaction between heaven and earth.

It brought back to me the sense of awe and respect that I remember being taught about priests. That this priest was truly set apart by the miracle of Holy Orders and interacted with God in a way that no ordinary man ever could. I remember being taught that his thumb and first two fingers were anointed and actually able to touch the Body and Blood of Christ! That this priest tended his flock and acted In Persona Christi (‘In the person of Christ’) as he administered the sacred sacraments.

It would have never dawned on me to question whether I should call him “Father” when we still had a sense of the sacredness of the priesthood. And I mean to use capital “F”, Father. Even as a pre-schooler, I understood the difference between “Father so-and-so” and “God, Our Heavenly Father”. To think that people could confuse the two is silly – such a person should get out of the ivory tower and back to common sense.

Now let me move forward to 2004. At our parish’s regular 9:00 am Sunday Mass, there are 11 lay people standing up around the altar and the priest, serving as Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion. We watch lay people walk up to the podium and read the first and second readings and sing the psalms. (For those who have never seen the traditional Latin Mass, the priest does all the readings.) We’ve lost that feeling of sacred space and completely blurred the lines between the priesthood and ordinary people, helping to make the priesthood ordinary.

And that is a Mass that is mostly free of liturgical abuse. I’ve sat through other Masses in the last 35 years where I’ve listened to militant lesbians, and other lay people, read the Gospel and preach a homily. I’ve seen liturgical dancers prancing around the altar. All of this help us lose that sense of awe for what it means to be a priest.

When we combine these liturgical differences with knowing priests who never wear the collar, or act in other ways to show their basic disrespect or disdain for orthodox teachings, or their disdain for the Holy Pontiff, or even – heaven help us – perform egregious sexual sins, then no wonder we start questioning whether he should be called little “f” father.

And no wonder being a priest doesn’t seem as attractive for a vocation.

Hi, Bob, and thanks for your response. It was profound. I highly agree with the sacredness of priesthood, but I also have taken to heart God’s demand (in the OT) for respect for his almightyness.
Isaiah 40:12+ has made a tremendous impact on me, as well. I’m learning more and more about God, since having been touched by His love about 8 years ago. I guess I place Him above ALL that may seem like possibly a trivial matter (a title/a name) to some is of greater significance to me. I’ve been doing much praying on this. I guess I need to make a mental adjustment, though in my heart anything relating to religious/spiritual matters need to be in accordance with God’s teachings and Father in its RELIGIOUS sense stands quite distant, in my opinion, from any comparison to God, even if it’s applied to a priest or someone directly serving God. We must remember that in the OT even priests, although played a sacred role, maintained a respective level with God. Anyway…just some feedback, but I liked your notes.

Asor

 

[1962Missal]

asor:

Hi, Vincent. Thanks for your response. I especially liked your closing line, “EVERY NEW THING KNOWN ABOUT GOD IS A NEW REASON FOR LOVING HIM. — FRANK SHEED .” I guess this fact has hit me rather strongly. I’ve learned soooooo much about Him (and have so much more to learn), and have especially started feeling/living His love that I feel uncomfortable with anything that touches on comparison to God, especially after reading Isaiah 40:12…

Asor

Once again, was St. Paul wrong?

“Even though you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.” (1 Cor 4:15)

Asor, please address this.

Justin

 

[drforjc]

This is another case of private judgement vs. the authority of the Church. OSV’s Catholic Encyclopedia states that St. Jerome refers to monks in Palestine and Egypt referring to one another as “father” by at least the fourth century. Clearly this is a venerable practice which has received the sanction of the Church.

I think on this one, Asor, we have to go with the Church, the “pillar and ground of all truth.”

 

[Rae]

Here are some examples, in Scripture, of the term ‘Father’ being applied to priests. Spiritual ‘fatherhood’ was practiced in the Old Testament. It is from the priest today that we receive our spiritual guidance.

We show our priests human honor because they are our spiritual fathers here on earth. Divine honor and worship is reserved for God alone.

Paul called his parishioners his children. He was a “father” within the church.

We are a family and thus we should treat our Christian brothers and sisters as family. Our priests are the head of our earthly church family. The priest also feeds us spiritually through the Sacraments and therefore requires our respect. As Christians united to the Body of Christ, we are closer (spiritually speaking), than our family members who are not Christians.

1 Cor 4:14-17
1 Timothy 5:1-2
1 Thess 2:10-11
1 John 2:14 John did not hold “earthly fathers” in the same regard as his “Heavenly Fahter.” John could not be deliberately disobeying Jesus time and again by using the word “father”. Obviously, he did not understand Matthew 23:9 the way some non-Catholics understand them.
Philemon 10-11
***Romans 4:16-17 (Jesus calls Abraham ‘father’)
Judges 17:9-10

 

[Bud_Stewart]

I call priests Father out of respect. Father is a title that these men who give their lives to the service of the Church certainly deserve.

 

[CathAnFanatical]

if calling a man father is wrong, then Jesus had it wrong when he calls abraham ‘father abraham’.

 

[davy39]

I’ve always called the priest "father joe " or whoever. It’s a sign of respect for who he is. I’m intelligent enough to know that he is not God the father. And before somebody blames this on Vatican 2, catholics have been calling priests “father” for centuries.

 

[Sheen]

The priesthood, both Old and New Testament, has always been seen as a spiritual fatherhood.

Whereas our biological fathers give us our natural life, our spiritual father – the priest – gives us supernatural life in baptism.

I never quite understood why this was a big issue since I doubt even the most rabid anti-Catholic seriously thinks a Catholic looks upon their priests as on a par with God – do they???

I mean, they may say that we believe this, but do you think they really, really believe this – that by calling our priests “Father” we are equating them to God?

 

[davy39]

I’ve always called the priest "father joe " or whoever. It’s a sign of respect for who he is. I’m intelligent enough to know that he is not God the father. And before somebody blames this on Vatican 2, catholics have been calling priests “father” for centuries.

 

[cmom]

1962Missal:

Once again, was St. Paul wrong? Asor, please address this.

Justin

Paul referred to himself as a spiritual father.

Just like in an order of nuns, the head nun is called “mother”, such as “Mother Angelica”.

Do you have a problem with non-biological parenthood?
I have many people call me :“mom” that I am not related to, do you have a problem with that?

 

[DrCat]

I think Father is a very appropriate title. After all, he is our spiritual father.

However, the title may sometimes lead to amusing incidents like the following. This incident took place many years ago, in a culture in which an American in a small town who was also a Catholic was probably an imported priest (In my diocese at that time, the imported American priests outnumbered the local priests).

I had recently returned to the Church and was trying to become active in my parish. My children sang in the church choir, and while they were in rehearsal (Saturday mornings) I generally gave conversational English classes to the two priests in our parish. One week, the choir director had to hold rehearsal on Friday afternoon. I had been speaking to one of the priests and he had left a few minutes earlier. I decided to have a cigarette before returning to rehearsal and was still standing between the door to the parish office and the door to the sacristy when an elderly gentleman came up to me.

“Father,” he said to me, are you going to open the church?"

I explained, “I’m not the priest.” (No soy el padre)

To which he replied “Yes you are. Open the church.”

We kept on, him insisting that I was the priest, and my insisting that I wasn’t. He seemed to be getting a bit upset with me when I was finally rescued by my daughters coming from rehearsal. As they approached, I said,

“Ok, yes I am a father - to these two girls.” As I walked off with my daughters, he yelled after me, “Then you’re not a Father (priest)?”



John

 

[Alberich]

asor:

Hi, Socrates. Well, I don’t have a problem with our ‘flesh’ fathers (so I do believe in acknowledging Fathers’ Day), even the Bible addresses our ancestors as such. It’s when FATHER is placed in a religious role that I’m struggling with.

Later. Asor

If it helps, any, asor, look through the Pauline letters. You’ll note that St. Paul frequently refers to himself as a “spiritual father” and other similar terms.

Pax,
Fred

 

[homer]

Call no one on earth your father; you have but one Father in heaven. (Mat 23:9)

 

[Alberich]

Call no one on earth your father; you have but one Father in heaven. (Mat 23:9)

Look at the context, though…what else is forbidden? Do you refer to others as teachers? Professors? These are also verboten in Matthew. But St. Paul refers to himself as a spiritual father. Perhaps Jesus was speaking with a certain purpose in mind? Something to do with the Pharisees, perhaps?

Pax,
Fred