Priest, Permanent Deacon, Instituted Acolyte

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In the Tridentine liturgy, the requirement to have a Solemn High Mass was a Priest, a Deacon, and a Sub-deacon (or Priests/Deacons acting in lesser roles). Since the restoration of the permanent Diaconate after Vatican II, there is a significantly larger number of deacons in the Church today. They have all the same faculties as a transitional deacon and can therefore serve in the Tridentine liturgy. Also since Vatican II, the position of Acolyte has been made available to even those who are not seminarians, although these have remained rare. The Church also allows these instituted Acolytes to function as sub-deacons in the Tridentine liturgy, although with some restrictions.

My question is how would you react (and how would others who may go to the Extraordinary Form of the Mass with you react) to having a High Mass said by a Priest, a Permanent Deacon, and an Instituted Acolyte?

Pax Vobiscum,
Zach
 
Having a father who is a permanent deacon who has served at least one Tridentine Mass, and being someone who attends both Ordinary and Extraordinary forms on a regular basis, I see no problem at all with this.
 
From what you said it doesn’t go against the letter of law and it appears to me it doesn’t violate the spirit either so I’m all for it. Plus, it would probably allow for more solemn High Masses (as opposed to just a Missa Cantata–not that I have anything against Missa Cantatas! 🙂 )
 
An ordained deacon, whether permanent or transitional, is an ordained deacon, so that is a non issue.

As for subdeacon, I recall hearing many years ago that in extremis, (i.e., in the absence of an ordained minister) any layman could, in theory, at least, function liturgically in that role in the Roman Rite, so that would also appear to be a non issue.

In my experience, though, permanent deacons in the Roman Rite are usually not interested in anything to do with the EF. I know several and there is only one exception. (Yes, I know there are other exceptions, which is why I qualified the statement in the first place.) I have never encountered an “Instituted Acolyte” but I would suspect the situation is basically the same.
 
Might as well as how we would react if we saw a dragon. IMO there are but very few instituted acolytes and fewer subdeacons that are NOT a deacon or priest serviing in that position.

A lot of the EF traditionalists do not have anyone who is not a seminarian serving in any other capacity other than server Most EF communities are not fond of the Permanent Deaconate either from what I have seen. Many places where the EF is permitted do not have seminarians to do the High Mass, so low mass is the order of the day
 
I know that before the MP, the Institute of Christ the King used Instituted Acolytes from Kenrick Glenon Seminary in St. Louis as Sub-deacons on occasion.
 
bubba451 said:
A lot of the EF traditionalists do not have anyone who is not a seminarian serving in any other capacity other than server Most EF communities are not fond of the Permanent Deaconate either from what I have seen. Many places where the EF is permitted do not have seminarians to do the High Mass, so low mass is the order of the day
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Which is too bad.
 
Which is too bad.–Yes it is.

Please note several qualifying statements before getting upset in any way:

If we had seminarians a-plenty, we could have more proper High Mass. However, since the bishops won’t (very generally) place seminarians with parishes that HAVE the EF (at least here), we don’t.

The societies (FSSP and CTK ,et all) don’t encourage lay people to function as clergy–this means they want people who are on the road to being a priest, so “in extremis” never comes in play except when a member of the laity FUNCTIONS as an altar boy. Since there were no permanet deacons pre-1962, they do not have a real warm fuzzy for that office.
Further, most deacons don’t know beans about the EF and run quickly from it and the faithful who choose to attend the EF like we have 2 heads. I and my family have been the recipient of some really odd looks/comments when we say we attend the EF.

Members of the laity are willing to serve in these functions and are willing to be trained properly. We simply do not have the priests to do this everywhere the EF is offered even though that is in a small number of locations. I pray there will be a improvement in understanding and maybe some additional instruction from Rome one day to resolve this for all parties.
 
Thankfully in my diocese there are a few very traditional permenant deacons. One is at a parish where they do a Latin ad-orientem NO every sunday as the main Sunday Mass. And another at a parish Where they have either a sung or a low Mass every Sunday and an occasional high Mass. Right now we only have one seminarian who is interested in being a sub-deacon and is instituted an acolyte, there are plenty more waiting in the wings but they wont be instituted for a while. The person we Currently have filling in as the Subdeacon is in major seminary on the other side of the state so we can only have high Masses on Christmas and Summer break… hopefully that will change soon. I know they are trying to get another priest or deacon to be willing to fill that spot. We will also have enough altar servers for it soon. 50 to 60 people attend when its a sung Mass, 20 to 30 when its a low Mass. This is all without advertizing or being listed on the website, bulitan or anywhere else, just by word of mouth.
 
Penitant said:
In the Tridentine liturgy, the requirement to have a Solemn High Mass was a Priest, a Deacon, and a Sub-deacon (or Priests/Deacons acting in lesser roles). Since the restoration of the permanent Diaconate after Vatican II, there is a significantly larger number of deacons in the Church today. They have all the same faculties as a transitional deacon and can therefore serve in the Tridentine liturgy. Also since Vatican II, the position of Acolyte has been made available to even those who are not seminarians, although these have remained rare. The Church also allows these instituted Acolytes to function as sub-deacons in the Tridentine liturgy, although with some restrictions.

My question is how would you react (and how would others who may go to the Extraordinary Form of the Mass with you react) to having a High Mass said by a Priest, a Permanent Deacon, and an Instituted Acolyte?

Pax Vobiscum,
Zach
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Zach,
The first thing I would do is to verify the information about an instituted acolyte substituting for a subdeacon. Subdeacons were/are ordained. We cannot draw the conclusion that just because the subdeaconate was suppressed and the instituted acolyte was introduced at the same time that this means acolytes are subdeacons. Before you do anything along those lines, I suggest you carefully look into the matter and make sure that your sources on this are indeed authoritative. This might just be someone’s opinion. Make sure that the Church is saying the same thing before you proceed.

PS another priest or deacon can indeed function as a subdeacon.
 
malphono said:
An ordained deacon, whether permanent or transitional, is an ordained deacon, so that is a non issue.

As for subdeacon, I recall hearing many years ago that in extremis, (i.e., in the absence of an ordained minister) any layman could, in theory, at least, function liturgically in that role in the Roman Rite, so that would also appear to be a non issue.

In my experience, though, permanent deacons in the Roman Rite are usually not interested in anything to do with the EF. I know several and there is only one exception. (Yes, I know there are other exceptions, which is why I qualified the statement in the first place.) I have never encountered an “Instituted Acolyte” but I would suspect the situation is basically the same.
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Of the three I’ve spoken to of the issue, 2 of the 3 would serve if their bishop asked them to, 1 of those two wants to do so, and all 3 would serve if the bishop instructed them to. None of the three has much desire for routine use of the EF, but all three support it being available.

One of those deacons is my dad. Dad is in the “I’d do it if asked but I’m not volunteering” category… though he’d serve if asked by the Celebrant, and said celebrant wasn’t impeded from saying it licitly.
 
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