Priest Problem

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CinciMom

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First of all, I do not know if this is the right thread for this. Moderator, if I am in the wrong area, please move this thread to the appropriate place in the forum.

We had a lovely Thanksgiving visit with my DH brother and family. During this visit, my BIL mentioned he has a problem at his local church.

Just a brief background, my BIL recently moved back to the US from Hong Kong. They went to Mass frequently and it was a very intimate setting in a hall but everyone participated in the Mass. They have three children 8, 6 and 4. I do love the children, but I do admit they are spoiled and tend to be rambunctious. The oldest one has a huge interest in the Mass and the Catholic Church.

This incident happened a few weeks ago. They attended Mass at their parish. The oldest child really wanted to sit in the front area of the Church. The family went ahead and sat in the first few rows at Church. Apparently, the two younger ones (both girls) were, well, not paying attention and were on the brink of fighting over a book during the Homily. The usher immediately asked my SIL and the girls to leave. The priest said in a very sarcastic tone “They made me lose my train of thought”. My BIL and his oldest were still in the front area (oblivious as to that his wife and daughters were kicked out here) and apparently his son kept doing the sign of the cross (why I do not know).

Anyway, my BIL went up to the deacon (I believe) after Mass to apologize. He said he was ok, but it was up to “The Big Guy”. My BIL then proceeded to go up to the Pastor to apologize what happened. This priest apparently railed on my BIL saying he was not doing his job, then yelled at my nephew that he was mocking Jesus because he kept doing the sign of the cross. My BIL was absolutely stunned. His son was apparently pale and scared as to what the priest told him.

This whole situation really has my BIL and his wife very upset. She has indicated to me that because of this she feels she cannot attend Mass anymore. Their son is scared to go to Mass now.

This boy is extremely sensitive. He is dyslexic (sp?) and has such a thirst for knowledge, but gets frustrated because he is struggling to catch up with kids his age. In addition, there are also some concerns about requirements (ie writing the Our Father, Hail Mary) for his First Holy Communion. When they approached the CCD program director, the response was rather cold and said that this was entirely up to the teacher.

I asked if they can go to another parish. My BIL informed me that they cannot leave their “district” without approval from the pastor. They live in VA which I think is out of the Arlington Diocese.

I also asked if there was a room in the back they could go to, but the Church is still being under construction so that is not ready.

This family is really having some culture shock and really want to settle here. The kids are trying the best they can to understand that Mommy has to do everything now (they had a maid and a nanny when they were in Hong Kong). My SIL is trying to settle into her new role.

My DH and I also suggested that they write a letter to the Pastor regarding these issues and see where it goes.

Any thoughts or insight as to how they should handle this situation?

Thanks!

PAX
 
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coyote:
What is a DH brother, and what is a BIL?
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Brother in law…DH I don’t know. Dear husband maybe?
 
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CinciMom:
I asked if they can go to another parish. My BIL informed me that they cannot leave their “district” without approval from the pastor. They live in Potomac Falls, VA which I think is out of the Arlington Diocese.
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I have not heard of this. Is it common?
 
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Akanke:
Brother in law…DH I don’t know. Dear husband maybe?
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Methinks “DH” stands for Dear Husband’(s) and “BIL” then would be “Brother-in- Law.”

Also, though some parishes attempt to enforce residential boundries, any Catholic can register and be a member of any parich thry choose, providing they choose only one.

Richard
 
I’m apalled by this story! The priest was no doubt frustrated by the state of modern child-rearing, but to take it out on a particular family for such a trivial point is unforgivable. I strongly suggest that the family look for a new parish. Since I cannot imagine a diocese requiring pastorial consent before such a change is made, I suggest they go over the pastor’s head and consult someone at the diocese. After what they’ve been through they deserve better.

I must wonder, do they feel they must consult the pastor because of conditions in Vermont, or is it possible that this practice is common in Asia?
 
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Lumancer:
I must wonder, do they feel they must consult the pastor because of conditions in Vermont, or is it possible that this practice is common in Asia?
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BIL (brother in law) said that they are told (I am assuming from their neighbors who belong) that they must have consent to move to another parish. In Asia, the Mass is held at a gym, hall because there are really not many churches in China.

One idea was thrown was how about a Mass for families with young children? I don’t know so that is why I am throwing the idea out there.
 
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CinciMom:
First of all, I do not know if this is the right thread for this. Moderator, if I am in the wrong area, please move this thread to the appropriate place in the forum.

We had a lovely Thanksgiving visit with my DH brother and family. During this visit, my BIL mentioned he has a problem at his local church.

Just a brief background, my BIL recently moved back to the US from Hong Kong. They went to Mass frequently and it was a very intimate setting in a hall but everyone participated in the Mass. They have three children 8, 6 and 4. I do love the children, but I do admit they are spoiled and tend to be rambunctious. The oldest one has a huge interest in the Mass and the Catholic Church.

This incident happened a few weeks ago. They attended Mass at their parish. The oldest child really wanted to sit in the front area of the Church. The family went ahead and sat in the first few rows at Church. Apparently, the two younger ones (both girls) were, well, not paying attention and were on the brink of fighting over a book during the Homily. The usher immediately asked my SIL and the girls to leave. The priest said in a very sarcastic tone “They made me lose my train of thought”. My BIL and his oldest were still in the front area (oblivious as to that his wife and daughters were kicked out here) and apparently his son kept doing the sign of the cross (why I do not know).

Anyway, my BIL went up to the deacon (I believe) after Mass to apologize. He said he was ok, but it was up to “The Big Guy”. My BIL then proceeded to go up to the Pastor to apologize what happened. This priest apparently railed on my BIL saying he was not doing his job, then yelled at my nephew that he was mocking Jesus because he kept doing the sign of the cross. My BIL was absolutely stunned. His son was apparently pale and scared as to what the priest told him.

This whole situation really has my BIL and his wife very upset. She has indicated to me that because of this she feels she cannot attend Mass anymore. Their son is scared to go to Mass now.

This boy is extremely sensitive. He is dyslexic (sp?) and has such a thirst for knowledge, but gets frustrated because he is struggling to catch up with kids his age. In addition, there are also some concerns about requirements (ie writing the Our Father, Hail Mary) for his First Holy Communion. When they approached the CCD program director, the response was rather cold and said that this was entirely up to the teacher.

I asked if they can go to another parish. My BIL informed me that they cannot leave their “district” without approval from the pastor. They live in Potomac Falls, VA which I think is out of the Arlington Diocese.

I also asked if there was a room in the back they could go to, but the Church is still being under construction so that is not ready.

This family is really having some culture shock and really want to settle here. The kids are trying the best they can to understand that Mommy has to do everything now (they had a maid and a nanny when they were in Hong Kong). My SIL is trying to settle into her new role.

My DH and I also suggested that they write a letter to the Pastor regarding these issues and see where it goes.

Any thoughts or insight as to how they should handle this situation?

Thanks!

PAX
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I would suggest that he and his wife find a sitter for the kids and make an appointment with the pastor and speak with him… explaining the changes in their lives and the difficulities with the children. Speaking to a priest after Mass is not the best situation. All parishes MUST provide “CCD” for all children. If their son needs special attention for first Communion they need to provide it.
 
As much as I really, really, really dislike Parish shopping I see that this is an issue for many. There are many reasons the Priest could have responded the way he did but it doesn’t excuse his behavior.

Your bil needs to search out another Parish - there is no need to get permission from the Pastor to do so.

I have never heard that a Parish has to provide any special education for students in their district unlike the public school system. You must remember that the CCD program is mostly taught by volunteers and it is not easy to find someone who can help the son. This doesn’t mean they shouldn’t do their best to try and help him or excuse him from certain of the requirements. This alone is a reason to find a new Parish.

Also, if the family is having difficulties with their new life then maybe they need to put off this intensive Sacramental year for one more year - and in that time work on the requirements 🙂

Brenda V. 🙂
 
I wasn’t there, I don’t know how much disturbance the child was causing etc, but I do know this. Me, and a whole lot of other people went to Mass from infanthood on and behaved. It is possible to teach kids to sit quietly through Mass. If you have a kid who is having trouble, then it is possible to sit in the back and duck out to deal with behavior problems.

I sat through thousands of Masses with no stuffed toys, handheld video games, cherrios, cookies, picture books or other paraphenalia. A young child can be provided with a Missalette that has pictures of photos of the Mass in it, to follow along, or a book of the story of the passion.

If we want our children to learn reverence, then they must be taught reverence.

I’ll bet said child will not act out at Mass again, a bit of healthy fear has been instilled. The priest made it clear that something important is taking place and that certain behaviors will not be tolerated.

I am a parent, and honestly, most of the time when someone corrects my child, I am cheesed off because MY PRIDE was injured, not because anyone did permanent damage to my kids psyche. I don’t like people inferring that I have done a lesser job of parenting than I should. And you know what? The more right they are, the more angry I am! If someone corrects my kids inappropriatly, I laugh it off. The sting comes when I know they are right and I am wrong.

Appropriate correction can be very hard to take.

cheddar
 
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CinciMom:
Any thoughts or insight as to how they should handle this situation?

Thanks!

PAX
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I think that they should look into attending mass at another parish if they cannot leave this one. Apparently, there has been trouble in the parish they are at with children misbehaving and these children need time to adjust to a “church” and not a hall. They need to split the kids and go to mass at different times with only one or two children. AND the parents need to nip things in the bud with fighting. Parents have a high tolerance level for their own children. Others do not.
While I believe the priest was harsh, catching him after mass was not the best time. I do believe that fighting children and repetative motions may be very distracting. A Priest is still human and the children, from your description, needed to be taken out of the church.
A private meeting with the priest would be in order. NO KIDS at that meeting. They need to get a baby sitter.
 
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cheddarsox:
Me, and a whole lot of other people went to Mass from infanthood on and behaved. It is possible to teach kids to sit quietly through Mass. . . . I sat through thousands of Masses with no stuffed toys, handheld video games, cherrios, cookies, picture books or other paraphenalia. . . . If we want our children to learn reverence, then they must be taught reverence.
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:amen: Where did we get the idea that a 2-year-old has to have milk & cookies every waking moment of the day? Where did we get the idea that unless we bring wind-up toys to Church a kid will be bored? “Boredom” is one of the great teaching tools of life.

I see it even with older kids. All the CCD classes come to chapel before class at our parish. I quietly tell my 6th grade that they’re to be the role models and set the standard for the rowdy, out-of-control classes to follow. My kids are calm and respectful. Other teachers let their groups get away with mayhem.

The parent or teacher sets the pace and monitors the performance.
 
I am tired of seeing parents try to calm noisy kids by giving them toys or cereal. Appeasement teaches nothing. It’s fine for young kids who can’t sit still for an hour to have a small piece of paper to draw on, but kids need to learn how to behave in church. When I got too loud, I got taken to the bathroom (and I’m not any worse off because of it either)- the same goes with my brothers, my dad, and my aunts and uncles and cousins- most of them turned out ok too- and we had to sit through services that were a lot longer than pretty much anything (save the Easter Vigil Mass) Catholics have to sit through.
 
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CantorRick:
Also, though some parishes attempt to enforce residential boundries, any Catholic can register and be a member of any parich thry choose, providing they choose only one.

Richard
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I think it depends on the diocese. I asked a parish (the one I attend regularly) if I could join them, and they said I need permission from their head Priest, which I have, and permission from the Priest in my “local” parish, which I am still putting off asking for. So sometimes it can be difficult to switch.
 
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Jabronie:
I think it depends on the diocese. I asked a parish (the one I attend regularly) if I could join them, and they said I need permission from their head Priest, which I have, and permission from the Priest in my “local” parish, which I am still putting off asking for. So sometimes it can be difficult to switch.
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Another suggestion, instead of switching, just go to Mass where you want. We used to go to Mass at a church downtown (which IMO is nicer than our cathedral - you can see it at holyghostchurch.info), because my family were friends with the priest. You don’t have to be registered at a parish to go to Mass there, but if you do go to Mass somewhere else it’s still a good idea to donate money to your hometown parish.
 
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CinciMom:
First of all, I do not know if this is the right thread for this. Moderator, if I am in the wrong area, please move this thread to the appropriate place in the forum.

We had a lovely Thanksgiving visit with my DH brother and family. During this visit, my BIL mentioned he has a problem at his local church.

Just a brief background, my BIL recently moved back to the US from Hong Kong. They went to Mass frequently and it was a very intimate setting in a hall but everyone participated in the Mass. They have three children 8, 6 and 4. I do love the children, but I do admit they are spoiled and tend to be rambunctious. The oldest one has a huge interest in the Mass and the Catholic Church.

This incident happened a few weeks ago. They attended Mass at their parish. The oldest child really wanted to sit in the front area of the Church. The family went ahead and sat in the first few rows at Church. Apparently, the two younger ones (both girls) were, well, not paying attention and were on the brink of fighting over a book during the Homily. The usher immediately asked my SIL and the girls to leave. The priest said in a very sarcastic tone “They made me lose my train of thought”. My BIL and his oldest were still in the front area (oblivious as to that his wife and daughters were kicked out here) and apparently his son kept doing the sign of the cross (why I do not know).

Anyway, my BIL went up to the deacon (I believe) after Mass to apologize. He said he was ok, but it was up to “The Big Guy”. My BIL then proceeded to go up to the Pastor to apologize what happened. This priest apparently railed on my BIL saying he was not doing his job, then yelled at my nephew that he was mocking Jesus because he kept doing the sign of the cross. My BIL was absolutely stunned. His son was apparently pale and scared as to what the priest told him.

This whole situation really has my BIL and his wife very upset. She has indicated to me that because of this she feels she cannot attend Mass anymore. Their son is scared to go to Mass now.

This boy is extremely sensitive. He is dyslexic (sp?) and has such a thirst for knowledge, but gets frustrated because he is struggling to catch up with kids his age. In addition, there are also some concerns about requirements (ie writing the Our Father, Hail Mary) for his First Holy Communion. When they approached the CCD program director, the response was rather cold and said that this was entirely up to the teacher.

I asked if they can go to another parish. My BIL informed me that they cannot leave their “district” without approval from the pastor. They live in VA which I think is out of the Arlington Diocese.

I also asked if there was a room in the back they could go to, but the Church is still being under construction so that is not ready.

This family is really having some culture shock and really want to settle here. The kids are trying the best they can to understand that Mommy has to do everything now (they had a maid and a nanny when they were in Hong Kong). My SIL is trying to settle into her new role.

My DH and I also suggested that they write a letter to the Pastor regarding these issues and see where it goes.

Any thoughts or insight as to how they should handle this situation?

Thanks!

PAX
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that is sad, father is not acting very fatherly.
 
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FrCorey:
that is sad, father is not acting very fatherly.
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But… we do not really know what occured.

After all, we do not even have a first person account of what happened. This is textbook hearsay and would not even be allowed in a court of law.

We only have one side of the story and then not even that, we only have a second hand report on one side of the story.

Seems nowadays everyone is quick to jump all over the clergy for any alleged offense.

All this thread does it give the clergy another black eye.
 
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ByzCath:
All this thread does it give the clergy another black eye.
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ByzCath,

My intent was not to bash this priest here. I was just trying to get an opinion on how my BIL and his wife handle this situation. But I do think the priest could have handled the situation during Mass by making light of the situation instead of pointing out that my BIL’s family “made him lose his train of thought” infront of the congregation. That to me in my opinion is totally unfatherly and unChrist-like.

But I also do understand that the children DO need to know how to behave in Church during the Mass. CCD class is on Wednesday night at their Church, while our parish has CCD during 11:00 Mass on Sunday (to me it works great with the real young kids) .

With that said, here is my honest opinion of the situation-- they are pretty darn spoiled. I really hate saying that because I do love them and on the most part, enjoy spending time with them. But I do think that their children really lack discipline, period (my FIL is 100% behind me on this too). And in this I do blame my BIL and his wife for not taking a more active role in their children’s lives instead of relying on a nanny to raise their children.

I do have two young children (4 and 2) and they are not perfect by any means. I just do not want to sound too judgemental in regards to my BIL and his family. If I do come across that way I am sorry.

PAX
 
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CinciMom:
I asked if they can go to another parish. My BIL informed me that they cannot leave their “district” without approval from the pastor. They live in VA which I think is out of the Arlington Diocese.
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I have only heard of this in Arlington (Virginia I’m assuming). I would take my family to the next closest parish an meet with the Priest and ask the Priest to help with “damage control” i.e. making friends with the boy. I would also write a strongly worded letter to the old paster and explain exactly why I left (Citing biblical passages on the pastor’s roll and how the priest failed to act Christ like.)

But then again, that’s just me.
 
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