The lifting of the excommunication is one issue, our “assisting” at SSPX Masses is something entirely altogether different. One has nothing to do with the other, Ockham. It is better to follow the procedures that Rome has given us than to go off to a splinter group that has not yet been fully reconciled to the Church. Remember, where Peter is, there is where the Church is. We need to stick with Peter on this.Pope Benedict XVI lifted the excommunications and has called for an increase in the EF. If a local bishop does not allow his priests to say the EF then the faithful have the right to attend the SSPX.
Ockham, it is true we can fulfill our obligation at the SSPX chapel but we should still be respectful of the local bishop. Rome has given him the power to run the diocese and he is ultimately responsible to the Vatican (and to God, for that matter) for the financial and pastoral state of his diocese. My only advice is that if you’re going to do something that may even slightly berate him, not that you should, but please be discrete about it. You should never get on the bishop’s bad side.Pope Benedict XVI lifted the excommunications and has called for an increase in the EF. If a local bishop does not allow his priests to say the EF then the faithful have the right to attend the SSPX.
Actually, the burden of proof falls on you. You have yet to provide authoritative documentation from the Holy See to confirm your assertion. In any case, I do implore the OP not to follow the route of the SSPX. This will not help his cause.The SSPX Mass is valid. My understanding is that if another EF was offered nearby that would be preferable. If this isn’t the case please provide a source.
Not so…the priest can decide to say a TLM and if people want to attend that is perfectly licit. In this case he does not require the bishops approval. This is how SP has been interpreted.
Read Article 2 again: “In Masses celebrated **without the people…” **That’s not a regularly scheduled parish Mass. That’s a priest’s private Mass. Yes if people ask to attend he may allow them to do so.
Of course he must say the mass in accordance with the rubrics…but he is not restricted to saying this mass at a side alter. No one is suggesting that the TLM be the only mass said on Sunday.
I never said he was restricted to a side altar, that was just where the particular priest I was familiar with celebrated his private Mass. My pastor would certainly be free to celebrate a private EF Mass at the main altar in our church or at the altar in the Rectory Chapel. He is not free to impose the EF on the parish or to celebrate it publicly if his Superior or the Bishop do not want him to.
God Bless,
Iowa Mike
Actually, the burden of proof falls on you. You have yet to provide authoritative documentation from the Holy See to confirm your assertion. In any case, I do implore the OP not to follow the route of the SSPX. This will not help his cause.
Maybe the issue is your misunderstanding of the Latin Rite, seeing that you claimed that the EF is supposedly the “full” theology of the Church, as if what passes on each Sunday is somehow not full or lacking. What graces in the holy sacrifice on Sunday do you find not nourishing to a receptive soul?Hello my Catholic brethren,
I am doing my best to start up a TLM in my city. I’ve done enough searching as far as a proper church, music department, but I just officially started to ask the priests on my list the possibility of them holding the Mass. I scoped out possible priests to say the Mass (those who I know are familiar or know Latin) and the first priest I chose to ask was my new pastoral priest at my local church. When I asked Father about the possibility of having a TLM, he answered “do you know Latin?” to which I simply said, “no but I am learning.” He basically told me why would I want a TLM if I have a Mass in the vernacular. He also brushed it off by saying that he needed the mandate of a bishop (I thought we didn’t need that anymore according to Pope Benedict XVI?) and killed it just like that. I feel really discouraged as this is coming from a PRIEST let alone it is the first one I ask. I am afraid everyone else thinks like him…that it is simply a language issue when really this is about Catholic teaching and theology expressed fully in the TLM…IMHO. Besides, Latin wasn’t a problem for thousands of years, so why would it be all of the sudden…it is still the official language of the Church last time I checked??? I didn’t tell him any of that of course as I was too disheartened and felt I would alienate him even more than he already felt about it. Why is it that priests just aren’t taking advantage of the Moto Propio? If you asked a priest about having a TLM at your parish, did you ever get a similar response? Seems like the first Latin priest is off my list.
I am not familiar with Renew America so I cannot comment on the validity of this publication. Furthermore, the link appears to be broken. In any case, I still very much caution the OP against going this route because of the group’s precarious situation. What I am asking for is an authoritative document from the Holy See that would validate this measure.Hey Benedictgal!!! Actually…any member of the faithful may attend an SSPX Chapel for their Sunday obligation if it is out of attachment for the older ways. As an SSPX person, I will always choose the SSPX TLM over Diocesesan for reasons that have been stated time and time again. However, if you do not want to affiliate with the SSPX, it may be more prudent for you to go to a Diocesesan TLM over the SSPX if you harbor any fears or anxiety about the Society. Just my 2 cents. This is what Cardinal Hoyos had to say and I hope this clears things up:
Cardinal Hoyos–President Emeritus of the Pontifical Commission “Ecclesia Dei speaking on behalf of The Holy See
"Darío Cardinal Castrillón Hoyos has repeatedly affirmed that the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) is not a case of formal schism on at least five separate occasions in public interviews, as recently as March 17 and over the past 2-1/2 years. Msgr. Camille Perl, long-time secretary for the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei (PCED), has repeatedly affirmed in personal letters that such Catholics incur no penalty and no sin for merely fulfilling one’s Sunday obligation at a church or chapel served by the SSPX…
…He continued, “I hope the open arms of Pope Benedict XVI will be understood as a kairos, an opportune moment, and pacifying the consciences of the faithful and of the lay people, a full effective and affective unity of the Fraternity with the Church and the vicar of Christ will be reached.”
Once again, His Eminence confirmed the SSPX is not in formal schism, but that there may be a danger of schism leading to heresy and vice versa within the movement without full canonical regularization, and that Pope Benedict XVI has “open arms” to welcoming the SSPX into full canonical regularization within the Church."
Read the entire article here: renewamerica.com/columns/mershon/070410
If you don’t like the state of vocations today then step up to the plate and become a priest. The talk of joining a schismatic cult if one doesn’t get to hear the Mass said in Latin points to some sort of disordered priorities.That is a real shame…it is priest like that which makes the SSPX more necessary with each passing day.
Unfortunately, there are some instances of liturgical abuse in the OP’s parish and in other parishes in our diocese:Maybe the issue is your misunderstanding of the Latin Rite, seeing that you claimed that the EF is supposedly the “full” theology of the Church, as if what passes on each Sunday is somehow not full or lacking. What graces in the holy sacrifice on Sunday do you find not nourishing to a receptive soul?
John, the OP is not asking the impossible of the pastor, especially since there is a parochial vicar and a priest in residence. Furthermore, the pastor is very familiar with the EF because he was ordained before the Second Vatican Council. Incidentally, the pastor is from another country. Furthermore, the parish in question is the wealthiest one in the diocese, so, money is not a factor for it.Do people have any idea how busy priests already are? Do you think they have time to learn how to properly perform a Latin mass? Most priests already don’t have enough free time to relax and recover from the stress of their job as things are now without adding anything more.
Do not be surprised that priests do not want to take on any more than they already have.
What do you want a priest to not do so that he can learn and perform the TLM? Which parishioners do you want the priest to neglect? There has to be a trade off. You can’t just add something and not take something else away.
It would be a different story if parishioners donated enough money that the priests didn’t have to worry about financial matters and could just concentrate on ministering. But that is not the case.
How about you make a deal with a priest. You will raise enough money that the paster no longer has to worry about money, get enough money so the parish can bring in a priest from Africa, Latin America or Asia to help and then the paster or priest will learn to perform a Latin Mass. This will not be a one shot deal, you have to get the parish to increase their contributions on a permanent basis.
The traditional order seminaries are full.Do people have any idea how busy priests already are? Do you think they have time to learn how to properly perform a Latin mass? Most priests already don’t have enough free time to relax and recover from the stress of their job as things are now without adding anything more
No. The burdern of proof is on you because you made the claim. You have not produced anything authoritative from the Vatican by way of a document or even a letter with a protocol number that confirms your claim. A magazine article is not enough.The link works for me.
Fear mongering is not charitable nor helpful regarding a reconciliation between the Vatican and the SSPX. Creating this sense of doubt may keep people away from the EF which no one has the right to do. Many people find a higher sprituality, amend their cafeteria ways, and get on the path to Heaven through the EF. If the SSPX is the only EF option then there is nothing wrong with attending Mass there.
The burden of proof is back to you.
Oh, I see. Thanks for the clarification. When I attend the wedding feast, my eyes are upon the Bridegroom, not whether the flowers are arranged perfectly or what some other wedding guests are doing or wearing, or whether the hearts of others are as pure as mine.Unfortunately, there are some instances of liturgical abuse in the OP’s parish and in other parishes in our diocese:
EMHCs approaching the altar before the celebrant has communicated;
Edits to the parts of the Mass by the celebrant;
Introduction of elements into the Mass by celebrants that have no basis in the GIRM; Paraphrases of the parts of the Mass in musical settings:
EMHCs intincting when it should only be the priest; and
Laity “assisting” the priest when he is blessing a couple or an individual on their birthday.
The music is suspect as well.
It’s not the OF that is the problem. It is what is done to the OF, at the OF that lies at the heart of the matter.
That is incorrect. SSPX priests lack faculties. While valid their Masses are still illicit.Pope Benedict XVI lifted the excommunications and has called for an increase in the EF. If a local bishop does not allow his priests to say the EF then the faithful have the right to attend the SSPX.
Thank you. I wish I could high-five you on that one. That is what I have been trying to say all along. Nothing in Summorum Pontificum states that we are free to go to an SSPX Mass. We need to work within the paramters that the Holy Father has given us.That is incorrect. SSPX priests lack faculties. While valid their Masses are still illicit.
And this ladies and gentlemen is how our liturgy got to this current state of disrepair.Oh, I see. Thanks for the clarification. When I attend the wedding feast, my eyes are upon the Bridegroom, not whether the flowers are arranged perfectly or what some other wedding guests are doing or wearing, or whether the hearts of others are as pure as mine.