Priest response to TLM leaves me stunned

[ProVobis]

If you are in a state of sin, you may go to Holy Communion, provided that you are truly unable to go to confession, make an act of contrition and seek to go to confession as soon as it is possible. In addition, if you want to go to confession and you die without going to confession, you are absolved of your sin. The fact that you wanted to go to confession indicates that you are sorry for your sin. The fact that there was no priest available is not your fault.

JR, that’s what canon law says and I know you are on top of canon law. However, I did get asked a couple of times in confession whether I was receiving communion during my state of sin. I replied I didn’t and the priest would tell me that it was a good thing in various ways. There are still many who do hold the view that you shouldn’t go to communion if you’ve been away from confession a long time (theory being that no one can be without mortal sin for a long time) but this seems to be more so in the Polish and other communities.

 

[JReducation]

While I think confession should have a higher importance in my parish, I understand there is a time issue. We were blessed with an extraordinary priest (iirc he went to seminary in Rome and has degrees in Cannon Law, and counseling. Unfortunately have to share his time with both the diocese and another church. He has 3 scheduled masses on Sunday in 2 parishes, and we try to pry “private” masses out of him when possible). I think he also works daily at the diocesan offices (an hr away) as a counselor and has served on the tribunal.

FWIW the priest celebrating that EF in the neighboring parish was fairly young. I am not sure where he was ordained (my diocese does not have a seminary), but they still teach Latin somewhere…​

Once again to praise my priest - the first think he did when he came to my parish 20+ years ago was to restore our Church. They recreated as much of the old alter as possible (from a couple photos and a couple of broken pieces of the former one found rotting in a field). His said “our Church was not conducive to worship”, even then it took the better part of a year to get permission for the remodel. Because of his efforts, almost all of the neighboring churches that were not torn down after VII have restored their alters as well. Some are even being repainted to their former glory as well.

The issue with the EF priest is that he was transferred from a strong traditional parish to one of those that tore down it’s old church for something “better” after VII.

Your parish priest sounds like a very talented and very good man. You’re very lucky.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Ockham]

JR, that’s what canon law says and I know you are on top of canon law. However, I did get asked a couple of times in confession whether I was receiving communion during my state of sin. I replied I didn’t and the priest would tell me that it was a good thing in various ways. There are still many who do hold the view that you shouldn’t go to communion if you’ve been away from confession a long time (theory being that no one can be without mortal sin for a long time) but this seems to be more so in the Polish and other communities.

Exactly. The issue isn’t the ‘what if you get hit by a car and die on the way to Confession’ scenario. It’s about regularly scheduled Confessions and the souls who by their fault or from a lack of catechesis carry mortal sin to their Judgement.

Death. Judgement. Heaven. Hell.

 

[Jerry_Parker]

Ockham,

**You wrote: ** *Why is your priest too busy for Confession? If people are not encouraged to Confession they are at risk of carrying mortal sin to their Judgement and probably receiving the Blessed Sacrament unworthily. What could be more important than preventing that? *​

I suspect that these priests who are so lax about offering Confession simply are “soft on sin” themselves, especially on their own! A strong indicator to modernism among today’s clergy is indifference to sin, their own or others’. If such priests really do not believe in sin, why would they feel obliged to offer regularly and on a scheduled basis the sacrament of Confession (Reconciliation or whatever it’s called now), when the whole thing, to them, is a waste of time and coddling of other people’s outmoded traditional morality?

Here even the Confiteor tends to be banished from the liturgy! The congregation cannot even acknowledge sins collectively! Fortunately, at the Francophone cathedral where I go to Mass, a young black priest from some other French-speaking country says Mass often there and he indeed does include the Confiteor, which I, at least, find a great comfort. I think that I have seen other priests at the altar with him try to prevent or to discourage this young black priest from saying the Confiteor (at least, that sure is what the the behaviour in the chancel suggested to my own eyes), but this virtuous priest continues to include that important prayer when it is he that says the Mass as principal celebrant.

How many Catholics are comfortable with having to chase down a priest to beg him to squeezse in a few moments for one’s confession? I know that I do not like, or feel comfortable, with this approach. I also resent it when one takes the trouble and time to confess one’s sins, even those which the Church considers rather serious, and the individual priest simply waves them off as if they were mere phantoms of the sickly imagination. There should be a (or several) confessionals scheduled for regular use of penitents every week! And the Confession should be said in the traditional, set form, too, unless (and only unless!) it would be inappropriate to hear the penitent’s confession that way. It’s a lay Catholic’s right, even if the priest himself secretly may be an unrepentent sinner or even an unbeliever in clerical garb.

Pax, Jerry Parker

 

[alforo]

Not so…any priest is free to celebrate the TLM without the permission of his bishop, Pope Benedict abolished the bishop approval requirement…see Summorum Pontificum.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike

Benedict XV1 also said that if no priest could not or would not do it, contact your
Bishop. That will get you results.

 

[PioKolby]

I am a laymen in the diocese of Scranton. I am in the same boat. At least you were given a answer. I asked and was not even responded to in one parish. I emailed a Priest about it and other matters he answered the other questions and just ignored my request for the Latin Mass. I asked the Oblates of St Joesph and couldn’t get passed the secretary. She was firm and “nice” a good gate keeper for sure. Bottom line the answer was no. A nice firm no. So I called the chancellor and we are now playing phone tag so please pray. I hope Bishop Bambera knows how hard (and correctly) many try around here to get the Latin mass said more widely. Frankly I find the resistance to the Latin Mass odd. Every Latin Mass I have been to is packed with big young families. Last time I checked we need more of those.
Pio

 

[Phemie]

How many Catholics are comfortable with having to chase down a priest to beg him to squeezse in a few moments for one’s confession? I know that I do not like, or feel comfortable, with this approach. I also resent it when one takes the trouble and time to confess one’s sins, even those which the Church considers rather serious, and the individual priest simply waves them off as if they were mere phantoms of the sickly imagination. There should be a (or several) confessionals scheduled for regular use of penitents every week! And the Confession should be said in the traditional, set form, too, unless (and only unless!) it would be inappropriate to hear the penitent’s confession that way. It’s a lay Catholic’s right, even if the priest himself secretly may be an unrepentent sinner or even an unbeliever in clerical garb.

Pax, Jerry Parker

I’ve made that point to two successive pastors with no results. The first one said “I’m not wasting 30 minutes in the confessional before Mass when nobody comes.” The other one just smirked – he does that a lot when I bring up things like the EF, the overuse of EMHCs, confession…

 

[Jerry_Parker]

Pio Kolby,

**You wrote: ** I am a laymen in the diocese of Scranton. I am in the same boat. At least you were given a answer. I asked and was not even responded to in one parish. I emailed a Priest about it and other matters he answered the other questions and just ignored my request for the Latin Mass. I asked the Oblates of St Joesph and couldn’t get past the secretary. She was firm and “nice” a good gate keeper for sure. Bottom line: the answer was no. A nice firm no. So I called the chancellor and we are now playing phone tag so please pray. I hope Bishop Bambera knows how hard (and correctly) many try around here to get the Latin mass said more widely. Frankly I find the resistance to the Latin Mass odd. Every Latin Mass I have been to is packed with big young families. Last time I checked we need more of those.​

Ha! There you are, right there in the city of the home diocese for the U.S., Scranton (PA.), of the Polish National Catholic Church (P.N.C.C.) and yet the Roman Catholic parishes dare to withhold the T.L.M. and to put off parishoners who want the Mass in Latin, when they could trot on over to the P.N.C.C.! Doesn’t the P.N.C.C. offer the Mass in Latin, as well as in Polish and in English, especially in the home cathedral of the P.N.C.C. there in Scranton? It would be a sore temptation, were I in Scranton or elsewhere having a P.N.C.C. parish, to put up with this! Even remaining Roman Catholic, I think that at least I would visit the P.N.C.C. at times to assist at the celebration of a really traditional form of the Mass, in whichever language, rather than the Novus Ordo! God, however, has withheld even the possibility of such temptation from me and others here in Rouyn-Noranda (Qué.)—. Despite there being a small Polish community here, alas, there is no P.N.C.C. parish, perhaps never has been in the past (though I am not sure of that).

Pax, Jerry Parker

 

[ConstantineTG]

Pio Kolby,

**You wrote: ** I am a laymen in the diocese of Scranton. I am in the same boat. At least you were given a answer. I asked and was not even responded to in one parish. I emailed a Priest about it and other matters he answered the other questions and just ignored my request for the Latin Mass. I asked the Oblates of St Joesph and couldn’t get past the secretary. She was firm and “nice” a good gate keeper for sure. Bottom line: the answer was no. A nice firm no. So I called the chancellor and we are now playing phone tag so please pray. I hope Bishop Bambera knows how hard (and correctly) many try around here to get the Latin mass said more widely. Frankly I find the resistance to the Latin Mass odd. Every Latin Mass I have been to is packed with big young families. Last time I checked we need more of those.​

Ha! There you are, right there in the city of the home diocese for the U.S., Scranton (PA.), of the Polish National Catholic Church (P.N.C.C.) and yet the Roman Catholic parishes dare to withhold the T.L.M. and to put off parishoners who want the Mass in Latin, when they could trot on over to the P.N.C.C.! Doesn’t the P.N.C.C. offer the Mass in Latin, as well as in Polish and in English, especially in the home cathedral of the P.N.C.C. there in Scranton? It would be a sore temptation, were I in Scranton or elsewhere having a P.N.C.C. parish, to put up with this! Even remaining Roman Catholic, I think that at least I would visit the P.N.C.C. at times to assist at the celebration of a really traditional form of the Mass, in whichever language, rather than the Novus Ordo! God, however, has withheld even the possibility of such temptation from me and others here in Rouyn-Noranda (Qué.)—. Despite there being a small Polish community here, alas, there is no P.N.C.C. parish, perhaps never has been in the past (though I am not sure of that).

Pax, Jerry Parker

That doesn’t make sense. You choose going to a schismatic Church just for the form of the Mass? So is the form of the Mass more important that being within the True Church?

 

[ConstantineTG]

I’ve made that point to two successive pastors with no results. The first one said “I’m not wasting 30 minutes in the confessional before Mass when nobody comes.” The other one just smirked – he does that a lot when I bring up things like the EF, the overuse of EMHCs, confession…

Our priest had that comment as well. He said that the start of Confession is posted. Its one hour before Mass, but if he waits 15 minutes and no one is coming, he’ll leave and prepare for Mass. There are people who come in over 30 minutes after the start and complain that he’s not there. Sometimes we have to realize that while our priests are accomodating, there’s a limit to it. They either have other things to do or they need to prepare or even rest up for a Mass.

 

[ProVobis]

Our priest had that comment as well. He said that the start of Confession is posted. Its one hour before Mass, but if he waits 15 minutes and no one is coming, he’ll leave and prepare for Mass. There are people who come in over 30 minutes after the start and complain that he’s not there. Sometimes we have to realize that while our priests are accomodating, there’s a limit to it. They either have other things to do or they need to prepare or even rest up for a Mass.

And then other places you can’t have confessions soon enough. In the parish I go to confession keeps moving its starting time up because at the annnounced time 10 people are already in line, whether Saturday or Sunday. I know myself like about 3 or 4 in front of me so I can examine my conscience better. So maybe confession lines beget confessions. Interesting phenomenon.

 

[FAB]

In parishes, where there is a stable group of faithful who adhere to the earlier liturgical tradition, the pastor should willingly accept their requests to celebrate the Mass according to the rite of the Roman Missal published in 1962, and ensure that the welfare of these faithful harmonises with the ordinary pastoral care of the parish, under the guidance of the bishop in accordance with canon 392, avoiding discord and favouring the unity of the whole Church

The original poster indicated being stunned when her priest put her off about the EF of the mass.
A couple of points, A single person in a parish does not make a stable group. There is also indicates that that the use of the EF is under the guidance of the local bishop. Other requiremnts are that the priest who presides at the EF must know the rite. Very few pastors are going to be willing learn this rite for a handful of parishers.There are many other pastoral needs that are more urgent than this one.
Instead of trying to get this done in a single parish, those wishing to this rite need to pool their resouces in a diocese, build a church and pay for the training of the priests for it. This is a case were the needs of the many, out weigh the wishes of the few.

 

[Ockham]

A priest is free to say the EF with or without a ‘stable group’.

Since Vatican II there hasn’t been a lot of stability in the liturgy.

 

[Stylites]

It would be a sore temptation, were I in Scranton or elsewhere having a P.N.C.C. parish, to put up with this! Even remaining Roman Catholic, I think that at least I would visit the P.N.C.C. at times to assist at the celebration of a really traditional form of the Mass, in whichever language, rather than the Novus Ordo! God, however, has withheld even the possibility of such temptation from me and others here in Rouyn-Noranda (Qué.)—.

How fortunate that God has not led you into temptation of schism. Would that we likewise not lead others into temptation, eh?

 

[benedictgal]

The original poster indicated being stunned when her priest put her off about the EF of the mass.
A couple of points, A single person in a parish does not make a stable group. There is also indicates that that the use of the EF is under the guidance of the local bishop. Other requiremnts are that the priest who presides at the EF must know the rite. Very few pastors are going to be willing learn this rite for a handful of parishers.There are many other pastoral needs that are more urgent than this one.
Instead of trying to get this done in a single parish, those wishing to this rite need to pool their resouces in a diocese, build a church and pay for the training of the priests for it. This is a case were the needs of the many, out weigh the wishes of the few.

FAB, the OP is male. Second, the priest in question was ordained prior to the Second Vatican Council, so, his knowledge of Latin and the form of the EF are not a problem. There are also a few other priests, also ordained prior to the Council, who know Latin and the EF.

Second, the bishop cannot squelch a legitimate request. In fact, SP notes that he should be assisting the faithful in securing the EF, not hindering them from it. SP notes that if the bishop is having difficulty, then he contacts the Ecclesia Dei Commission to seek their assistance. The faithful also have recourrse to the Commission as well.

Third, there is a history in my diocese of the Mass being celebrated in the EF. In fact, some years ago, there was a priest, while we were still a part of the Diocese of Corpus Christi, who was a member of the FSSP, who would come down once a month to celebrate the EF.

 

[roadsend]

…
Instead of trying to get this done in a single parish, those wishing to this rite need to pool their resouces in a diocese, build a church and pay for the training of the priests for it. …

Over the past seven or so decades I have helped pay for several churches set up for the Traditional Latin Mass only to see them vandalized by tearing out high altars, communion rails, statues, etc.
I would suspect that others attached to Tradition have also done so also.
I think present resources are adequate, if the will to do so is also present.

 

[ConstantineTG]

And then other places you can’t have confessions soon enough. In the parish I go to confession keeps moving its starting time up because at the annnounced time 10 people are already in line, whether Saturday or Sunday. I know myself like about 3 or 4 in front of me so I can examine my conscience better. So maybe confession lines beget confessions. Interesting phenomenon.

Our parish is small, and that priest I spoke of isn’t particularly popular. I wouldn’t be surprised if people are going elsewhere for Confession. I know I did

In our diocese we have a Confession Service every Advent and Lent. Its always well attended.

 

[ConstantineTG]

A priest is free to say the EF with or without a ‘stable group’.

Since Vatican II there hasn’t been a lot of stability in the liturgy.

The priest needs the stable group to hold a regularly scheduled EF Mass. The priest is free to celebrate Mass in the EF in private. Any person who wants to attend this private Mass may ask the priest to let them attend.

 

[Like]

In our diocese we have a Confession Service every Advent and Lent. Its always well attended.

Yes so does my diocese & that’s the only time you see anyone going to confession.

It’s hard for me to believe everyone going to communion every Sunday only sins twice a year.

 

[ProVobis]

Our parish is small, and that priest I spoke of isn’t particularly popular. I wouldn’t be surprised if people are going elsewhere for Confession. I know I did

I don’t know about your particular priest but I think a priest who asks for too many details or gives harsh penances (not that he shouldn’t) isn’t going to get popular too fast.