Priest said "Jesus absolves you" instead of "I absolve you"

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pcg2 said:
What do you guys mean when you say “faculties?”
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Basically, it means being authorized by the Church, usually by your local bishop. It’s different from Holy Orders, which are permanent and indelible. The Church can at any time remove someone’s priestly faculties, which is what happens, for instance, in an abuse case when a priest is “defrocked.” It’s a little like the difference between having gone to medical school and being licensed to practice medicine. If your license is revoked, you can perform surgeries, but it’s a big no-no. Similarly if priestly faculties are removed you can perform Mass, it’s just a huge sin. (Though, under canon law, without faculties you cannot perform absolution except in danger of death.)
 
MarkThompson said:
Basically, it means being authorized by the Church, usually by your local bishop. It’s different from Holy Orders, which are permanent and indelible. The Church can at any time remove someone’s priestly faculties, which is what happens, for instance, in an abuse case when a priest is “defrocked.” It’s a little like the difference between having gone to medical school and being licensed to practice medicine. If your license is revoked, you can perform surgeries, but it’s a big no-no. Similarly if priestly faculties are removed you can perform Mass, it’s just a huge sin. (Though, under canon law, without faculties you cannot perform absolution except in danger of death.)
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Hmmmm… so in the case above where the priest gives absolution to the laity in the park, why is it that that would not be valid? If he is a validly ordained priest, what are the faculties that the priest does not posses in that instance?
 
pcg2 said:
Hmmmm… so in the case above where the priest gives absolution to the laity in the park, why is it that that would not be valid? If he is a validly ordained priest, what are the faculties that the priest does not posses in that instance?
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I don’t know much of the specifics, but generally you can’t just wander off and conduct priestly ministry outside of your own diocese without the permission of the local ordinary. Similarly, although I’m not sure about medical licenses, a law license is no good outside of your own state (except in certain limited cases).
 
Oh alright I thought it had something to do with the specific location itself, not with in what diocese the priest was performing his ministry… :hmmm: I was asking because I have gone to confessions inside the priest’s office, and I thought that this somehow made the sacrament invalid, but I guess not
 
pcg2 said:
Hmmmm… so in the case above where the priest gives absolution to the laity in the park, why is it that that would not be valid? If he is a validly ordained priest, what are the faculties that the priest does not posses in that instance?
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What MarkThompson said. In the hypothetical I described, the next town happens to be in another diocese, although that was only implied by what I wrote. Meanwhile, the mass would probably be illicit on many more counts than the confessions, but it would nonetheless be valid, assuming the usual valid form, matter, and intent.
 
pcg2 said:
Oh alright I thought it had something to do with the specific location itself, not with in what diocese the priest was performing his ministry… :hmmm: I was asking because I have gone to confessions inside the priest’s office, and I thought that this somehow made the sacrament invalid, but I guess not
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Ah – no, it’s fine in a confessional, an office, by a hospital bedside, on a battlefield, in a tent during a retreat, whatever. That said, canon 964 of the Code of Canon Law provides:
Can. 964 §1. The proper place to hear sacramental confessions is a church or oratory.

§2. The conference of bishops is to establish norms regarding the confessional; it is to take care, however, that there are always confessionals with a fixed grate between the penitent and the confessor in an open place so that the faithful who wish to can use them freely.

§3. Confessions are not to be heard outside a confessional without a just cause.​
 
pcg2 said:
Oh alright I thought it had something to do with the specific location itself, not with in what diocese the priest was performing his ministry… :hmmm: I was asking because I have gone to confessions inside the priest’s office, and I thought that this somehow made the sacrament invalid, but I guess not
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Not at all. Here’s what canon law says about the location:
Can. 964 §1. The proper place to hear sacramental confessions is a church or oratory.
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§2. The conference of bishops is to establish norms regarding the confessional; it is to take care, however, that there are always confessionals with a fixed grate between the penitent and the confessor in an open place so that the faithful who wish to can use them freely.
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§3. Confessions are not to be heard outside a confessional without a just cause.
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Others can give more expert opinion, but I think “just cause” is a fairly low standard. In your case, the just cause was probably that the priest didn’t want to inconvenience you, and deny absolution, until regularly scheduled confession times. An unjust cause would be that the priest likes to see the daisies swaying back and forth during the rite.

I don’t believe that Canon 964 affects validity - if that had been the case, it would have been written a bit more firmly and clearly, without the wiggle room you get with a phrase like “just cause”.

Edit: I see I’m outmatched in early morning typing reflexes.:coffeeread:
 
My :twocents: for what they’re worth: I don’t think it is valid. I think that since there is doubt on this issue, and its not simply scruples, that you should confess again and not receive the Eucharist til you do. It’s better to err on the safe side when we’re talking eternity! 🙂

Pax!
 
I think I am going to go to confession again and explain the whole situation to the priest. I am scrupulous, but in this instance, I don’t think it has anything to do with my scrupulosity – it was either valid or not 🤷

But, on Friday, when I last visited these forums, I had gotten the general consensus that this was sacrament was valid, and that I was free to just “get over it and move on” per se. So, I received the Eucharist on Saturday and Sunday at two different masses, thinking that my absolution had been valid. Did I sin here? Or was it okay, seeing as how at the time I thought I was in a state of grace and that I just shouldn’t worry about it?
 
Oh, and Mark: Do you know why the other thread was closed? I can’t post on it anymore :confused:
 
pcg2 said:
Oh, and Mark: Do you know why the other thread was closed? I can’t post on it anymore :confused:
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I haven’t looked so I didn’t know it was, but probably because it got way off topic in my discussion with BenedictGal and Aramis.
 
I think I am going to go to confession again and explain the whole situation to the priest. I am scrupulous, but in this instance, I don’t think it has anything to do with my scrupulosity – it was either valid or not

But, on Friday, when I last visited these forums, I had gotten the general consensus that this was sacrament was valid, and that I was free to just “get over it and move on” per se. So, I received the Eucharist on Saturday and Sunday at two different masses, thinking that my absolution had been valid. Did I sin here? Or was it okay, seeing as how at the time I thought I was in a state of grace and that I just shouldn’t worry about it?
 
pcg2 said:
I think I am going to go to confession again and explain the whole situation to the priest. I am scrupulous, but in this instance, I don’t think it has anything to do with my scrupulosity – it was either valid or not

But, on Friday, when I last visited these forums, I had gotten the general consensus that this was sacrament was valid, and that I was free to just “get over it and move on” per se. So, I received the Eucharist on Saturday and Sunday at two different masses, thinking that my absolution had been valid. Did I sin here? Or was it okay, seeing as how at the time I thought I was in a state of grace and that I just shouldn’t worry about it?
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I think that Brendan pretty much addressed your concerns. If you do happen to be in the confessional with the same priest and this happens, you might gently ask him. You could say, “Father, I am curious (before he gives you the dismissal, and hope you don’t have a long line behind you), when I’ve gone to confession, the priests normally say “I absolve you…” Would you mind explaining the difference to me in the formula? This variation left me with some questions the last time I was here and I was, frankly, a little confused. I would be much obliged if you helped me understand things a little better.”
 
benedictgal said:
I think that Brendan pretty much addressed your concerns. If you do happen to be in the confessional with the same priest and this happens, you might gently ask him. You could say, “Father, I am curious (before he gives you the dismissal, and hope you don’t have a long line behind you), when I’ve gone to confession, the priests normally say “I absolve you…” Would you mind explaining the difference to me in the formula? This variation left me with some questions the last time I was here and I was, frankly, a little confused. I would be much obliged if you helped me understand things a little better.”
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Thank you, but my question was whether or not I sinned by receiving the Eucharist on Saturday and Sunday… or is your point that Brendan already explained that my confession was valid? A tad confused
 
pcg2 said:
Thank you, but my question was whether or not I sinned by receiving the Eucharist on Saturday and Sunday… or is your point that Brendan already explained that my confession was valid? A tad confused
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No. I was trying to reassure you that Brendan set the record straight. But, for your own peace of mind, I would gently pose the question to the priest should you once again encounter him in the confessional. You’re doing okay. I can understand your concern. You’ve been liturgically tramautized. You don’t need to be sacranentally traumatized either.
 
pcg2 said:
I think I am going to go to confession again and explain the whole situation to the priest. I am scrupulous, but in this instance, I don’t think it has anything to do with my scrupulosity – it was either valid or not

But, on Friday, when I last visited these forums, I had gotten the general consensus that this was sacrament was valid, and that I was free to just “get over it and move on” per se. So, I received the Eucharist on Saturday and Sunday at two different masses, thinking that my absolution had been valid. Did I sin here? Or was it okay, seeing as how at the time I **thought **I was in a state of grace and that I just shouldn’t worry about it?
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I honestly would just play it on the safe side. I say go to Confession and confess the sins from the past Confession, any new ones, and the receiving Eucharist. Receiving Eucharist this past weekend, if the Absolution was invalid, was a venial sin since you did not KNOW that it was a grievious act what you were doing. But there is no harm is confessing venial sins. I encourage it! Hope that answers the question. You receiving was in no way a mortal sin as far as I know.

Pax et Bonum!
 
How about if the priest doesn’t put his hands over you while he gives absolution – does this make the sacrament invalid?

In fact, does anyone know what could invalidate this particular sacrament? Any links would be helpful, that way I don’t need to come to this thread for every little question 🙂
 
Brendan said:
To minister is to perform a service. The priest performs the service of hearing the confession and making the determination if absolution is warrented. The forgiveness of sins comes from Christ, because Christ is the offended party. It comes THROUGH the priest.

Read the Chaldean prayer of absolution, what ministry does the priest offer there?
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Sorry for the delay in replying.

With that prayer, there is some sense of supplication/invocation/intercession being offered by the priest, on behalf of the penitent. There is also an implied comparison to the priest and St. Peter in the “absolution” of the house of Cornelius–God working through the priest, like St. Peter.

I am still wondering if there was anything else the priest said, in this case, other than “Jesus absolves you.”

In the words commonly repeated by Fr. Zuhlsdorf, the priest should just say the black and do the red. It would save everyone a lot of trouble.

Dan
 
pcg2 said:
How about if the priest doesn’t put his hands over you while he gives absolution – does this make the sacrament invalid?

In fact, does anyone know what could invalidate this particular sacrament? Any links would be helpful, that way I don’t need to come to this thread for every little question 🙂
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That would not have any bearing on the sacrament. I go to confession using the screen. I do not expect the priest to somehow overcome the barrier of either solid wood or concrete to try and touch my head.

Overnight, I rethought my last response to you. If all the priest said was “Jesus absolves you”, there might be some problems with the formula because even that was abreviated. Go with your gut and go to confession again (if you committed a mortal sin, but, from the looks of it, that seems to not be the case with you). I will ask a priest friend of mine about this when he comes back from vacation.
 
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