Priest shortage/average age questions

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crazydyl

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Hello All 😃

I have recently concreted my faith and God knows that I would now do anything for Him. I hear that there are shortages of priests in some areas, but too many in others…

What is the average age of a priest?
Is there a current shortage?
Will there be a shortage in a few years if the average of priests is currently high?

I could equally be a good, Catholic husband or good priest so am I needed? I would be willing to give everything up to serve God like the disciples. My current life is very holy and simple as my life is totally based around God now šŸ™‚

Thanks

Dylan šŸ™‚

ps. I don’t want any messages discussing ā€˜callings’ 😃 Just if I am needed or not and what is the state of the church šŸ™‚
 
Hello All 😃

I have recently concreted my faith and God knows that I would now do anything for Him. I hear that there are shortages of priests in some areas, but too many in others…

What is the average age of a priest?
Is there a current shortage?
Will there be a shortage in a few years if the average of priests is currently high?

I could equally be a good, Catholic husband or good priest so am I needed? I would be willing to give everything up to serve God like the disciples. My current life is very holy and simple as my life is totally based around God now šŸ™‚

Thanks

Dylan šŸ™‚

ps. I don’t want any messages discussing ā€˜callings’ 😃 Just if I am needed or not and what is the state of the church šŸ™‚
I know you said not to say it, but I have to: Please don’t base your decision based on statistics of current trends in vocations.

Okay, now that that’s out of the way… šŸ˜‰

First, the number of priestly vocations is actually rising. It is only in Europe that we see a decrease.

Jeff Ziegler periodically writes articles on this topic for Catholic World Report. Try:
Of course, if you want more comprehensive, up-to-date figures, you could always comb through the [Official Catholic Directory (http://www.officialcatholicdirectory.com/print-directory.html). It’s a bit pricy ($347!!!), but you could always see if your local diocesan office would mind letting you peruse their copy. šŸ™‚
 
Ok, I am not needed to become a priest then šŸ™‚

I will work hard and find myself a wife šŸ˜‰ šŸ™‚
 
My impression is that the rate of entrants into seminary may be rising, that there is a severe general shortage of RCC priests in the US, that will be very hard to make up. There are also a lot of priests that are aging rapidly and that are elderly but still ā€˜out there’ because of extreme need. Not that any of this should persuade you one way or the other, but to say that there’s no shortage because there is an uptick in entrants is disingenuous.

Check this out:

cara.georgetown.edu/bulletin/index.htm

From CARA:

1965 Catholic pop 45.6 million
2009 65.2 million

1965 number of seminarians 8,325
2009 3,357

1965 number of ordinations 994
2009 472

1965 number of parishes 17,637.
2009 18,280

1965 number of parishes without a resident pastor 549
2009 3400

(Sorry, the Preview didn’t keep the alignment --the comparable numbers were beneath each other.)
 
Ok, I am not needed to become a priest then šŸ™‚

I will work hard and find myself a wife šŸ˜‰ šŸ™‚
My friend, one does not become a priest becaues there is a need. One becomes a priest because Christ calls. There is a positive and a negative side to the call. The positive is that the man must feel that he is called. The negative is that either his bishop or his religious superior has to confirm the call. Wanting to be a priest is not enough. A shortage is not enough either.

The Church only wants men who are called by Christ. You heart is in the right place, because you are generous. But you probably did not know about this other part. One must be called and the call is confirmed by the bishop or by a religious superior.

Holy Orders and religious vows are the only two vocations in the Church where the individual cannot choose alone. The Church must speak for Christ.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF šŸ™‚
 
My impression is that the rate of entrants into seminary may be rising, that there is a severe general shortage of RCC priests in the US, that will be very hard to make up. There are also a lot of priests that are aging rapidly and that are elderly but still ā€˜out there’ because of extreme need. Not that any of this should persuade you one way or the other, but to say that there’s no shortage because there is an uptick in entrants is disingenuous.

Check this out:

cara.georgetown.edu/bulletin/index.htm
While at CARA, however, look at the number of deacons + the number of priests (deacons could be more used in the active ministry of the Church than they are in many, if not most cases) and at the Catholic population that attends Mass (actually decreased since 1965). Statistics are fun, but usually misleading even when they are accurate.

Much more of the shortage has to do with the redistribution of the Catholic population away from the major cities, which are now trying to sustain too many parishes, to the suburbs.
 
While at CARA, however, look at the number of deacons + the number of priests (deacons could be more used in the active ministry of the Church than they are in many, if not most cases) and at the Catholic population that attends Mass (actually decreased since 1965). Statistics are fun, but usually misleading even when they are accurate.

Much more of the shortage has to do with the redistribution of the Catholic population away from the major cities, which are now trying to sustain too many parishes, to the suburbs.
This is true, that the number of deacons is rising rapidly, but although they are very useful , they cannot substitute for priests in a church like the Catholic church. Only a priest can say mass and hear confessions.
 
This is true, that the number of deacons is rising rapidly, but although they are very useful , they cannot substitute for priests in a church like the Catholic church. Only a priest can say mass and hear confessions.
Let’s be careful not to underestimate the role of the deacon. I’ll give you an example of a parish that I know. There is a secular parish in our area with about 3,000 families. It has four deacons and one priest. It also has 27 lay leaders who run 36 ministries. The priest jsut has to hear confessions and say mass. Everything else is covered. The deacons do all the weddings, funerals, baptisms, spiritual direction, pastoral counseling, visits to the hospital, nursing home, hospice and so forth. They do the finances and supervize the staff. And each of them preaches at one mass on Sundays. There are five masses in that parish. The pastor only celebrates one. He rents priests from the religious houses in the area. I know, because two of our brothes are ordained, but they have not preistly duties during the week. They run pregnancy centers. So, they go to this parish to celebrate mass on Sundays and hear confessions on Saturdays.

Now we have three priests, one secular and two brothers. The secular has a parish that is run by deacons and lay ministers whom he supervizes. The religious have no priestly duties at all, because they are not needed in our community. We don’t run a parish, we run pregnancy centers. But these three priests cover the masses and confessions for a very large parish and the deacons cover everything else that is either sacramental or adminsitrative.

The problem is that most deacons are not employed by their parish. Therefore, they cannot serve their parish full-time. They have to work to support their families. But in parishes where they can afford to pay the deacons a salary, there is no need to have more than one or two priests to celebrate mass,hear confessions and anoint the sick. There are only three sacraments for which you need a priest and two of them usually don’t happen more than once a day: mass and confession. Actually, you can schedule confessions, so that leaves just the daily mass.

I believe that the big problem is that we are not using our deacons enough and properly. There is one in this parish of which I spoke that is an expert on marriage. He does all the marriage preps, marriage counseling, couples counseling and handles the annulment cases. He’s awesome in canon law. There is another who is an excellent spiritual director. He leads many people back to the confessional. There are the other two and I’m not too sure what they do. I don’t work at that parish. I just live with two brothers whom we rent to them on Saturdays and Sundays.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF šŸ™‚
 
This is true, that the number of deacons is rising rapidly, but although they are very useful , they cannot substitute for priests in a church like the Catholic church. Only a priest can say mass and hear confessions.
As Br JR points out (better than I will, actually), the deacons are clergy and can certainly take on more of the administrative duties (their biblical role), not to mention they are better ordered to take on broader ministry than the army of lay ā€œministersā€.

In the case of clustered parishes, having a deacon employed by each parish, would help lighten the load on the priests.

At the same time, we do have to be sure not to reduce priests to ā€œSacrament Machinesā€, nor elevate the diaconate to ā€œpriesthood-lightā€, but even avoiding these we can and should make more aggressive use of deacons as clergy.
 
As Br JR points out (better than I will, actually), the deacons are clergy and can certainly take on more of the administrative duties (their biblical role), not to mention they are better ordered to take on broader ministry than the army of lay ā€œministersā€.

In the case of clustered parishes, having a deacon employed by each parish, would help lighten the load on the priests.

At the same time, we do have to be sure not to reduce priests to ā€œSacrament Machinesā€, nor elevate the diaconate to ā€œpriesthood-lightā€, but even avoiding these we can and should make more aggressive use of deacons as clergy.
Personally, I don’t think that there is a chance in heck that priests will be reduced to sacrament dispensers for several reasons. About a third or a little more of priests today are religious. Those who are religious usually spend much more time in other ministries than in sacramental minsitries. I know priests who teach all week. Others who work on the streets with the poor. Some who who are completely contemplative. These men don’t spend that much time celebrating sacraments. Some are not even allowed to celebrate daily mass. In many communities such as Carmelites, Franciscans and some Benedictines, only one priest can celebrate the mass and everyone else attends. So the priests don’t even celebrate daily mass, unless they are assigned to a parish where you have to do so for the parishioners.

There is little chance that deacons will become priests lite. The big problem, as usual, is the laity. The laity has no clue what a deacon is. I know that most lay Catholics do not know that deacons are one of the orders of the Sacrament of Holy Orders. They think that the term orders in Holy Orders means Carmelite, Dominicans, Salesians, etc. They don’t know or don’t remember that there are three orders to the sacrament and that diaconate is one of them.

Few people know that deacons are not lay men, but are clerics. I have heard people call them ā€œlay deacons.ā€ When I asked why they called the permanent deacons lay deacons the answer was, because they’re married or because they are not studying for the priesthood. People don’t understand that it’s not a stepping stone for the priesthood. It’s one of the orders and that priests are also deacons. You do not cease to be a deacon when you are ordained a priest. In the rite of priestly ordination there is specific mention about consecrating the Eucharist and absolving from sin. There is ot mention about preaching or the other sacraments, because the man being ordained a priest already has those sacramental powers by virtue of his diaconate. This is not being taken away from him. But people think that a priest WAS a deacon. Catechists are horrible in teaching the sacrament of Holy Orders. I have seen some classes that make my hairs stand on end.

Also, let’s look at what a deacon has traditionally done in the Western Church: preach, baptize, bury the dead, distribute communion, take communion to the sick and shut-in, assist the bishop in administrative matters (that’s not priest’s job. It’s a deacon’s job). They have taken care of the poor, widowed, sick and orphans. They have been spiritual directors, retreat masters and even religious superiors in monasteries and friaries. Where is the priest lite? What does a priest do that is over and beyond this? He precides as mass, blesses and absolves… Everything else that our priests do are sacramental, administrative and apostolic functions that have been part of the diaconate. Priests took up these functions when the permanent diaconate was supressed in the Roman Church. But when there were permanent deacons, priests and deacons shared these duties.

In any case, my concern is not that deacons will become ā€œpriests liteā€ (I like that). My concern is that they will become ā€œreligiuos liteā€. There are many areas in the apostolate where deacons and male religious overlap, such as the care of the poor. We have already seen many non-clerical brothers and many lay-brothers asked, ā€œWhy don’t you become a permanent deacon?ā€ Because people see them overlap in the works of mercy, they believe that they are the same calling, not knowing that one is consecrated and the other is ordained.

I once had someone ask me if the permanent deacons were men who could not be priests because they are married. I had to explain that there are permanent deacons who are celibate and have always been celibate. We have to educate the laity on the diaconate. We have to educate some secular priests too. Because the permanent diaconate has not been exploited yet.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF šŸ™‚
 
Personally, I don’t think that there is a chance in heck that priests will be reduced to sacrament dispensers for several reasons. About a third or a little more of priests today are religious. Those who are religious usually spend much more time in other ministries than in sacramental minsitries. I know priests who teach all week. Others who work on the streets with the poor. Some who who are completely contemplative. These men don’t spend that much time celebrating sacraments. Some are not even allowed to celebrate daily mass. In many communities such as Carmelites, Franciscans and some Benedictines, only one priest can celebrate the mass and everyone else attends. So the priests don’t even celebrate daily mass, unless they are assigned to a parish where you have to do so for the parishioners.

There is little chance that deacons will become priests lite. The big problem, as usual, is the laity. The laity has no clue what a deacon is. I know that most lay Catholics do not know that deacons are one of the orders of the Sacrament of Holy Orders. They think that the term orders in Holy Orders means Carmelite, Dominicans, Salesians, etc. They don’t know or don’t remember that there are three orders to the sacrament and that diaconate is one of them.

Few people know that deacons are not lay men, but are clerics. I have heard people call them ā€œlay deacons.ā€ When I asked why they called the permanent deacons lay deacons the answer was, because they’re married or because they are not studying for the priesthood. People don’t understand that it’s not a stepping stone for the priesthood. It’s one of the orders and that priests are also deacons. You do not cease to be a deacon when you are ordained a priest. In the rite of priestly ordination there is specific mention about consecrating the Eucharist and absolving from sin. There is ot mention about preaching or the other sacraments, because the man being ordained a priest already has those sacramental powers by virtue of his diaconate. This is not being taken away from him. But people think that a priest WAS a deacon. Catechists are horrible in teaching the sacrament of Holy Orders. I have seen some classes that make my hairs stand on end.

Also, let’s look at what a deacon has traditionally done in the Western Church: preach, baptize, bury the dead, distribute communion, take communion to the sick and shut-in, assist the bishop in administrative matters (that’s not priest’s job. It’s a deacon’s job). They have taken care of the poor, widowed, sick and orphans. They have been spiritual directors, retreat masters and even religious superiors in monasteries and friaries. Where is the priest lite? What does a priest do that is over and beyond this? He precides as mass, blesses and absolves… Everything else that our priests do are sacramental, administrative and apostolic functions that have been part of the diaconate. Priests took up these functions when the permanent diaconate was supressed in the Roman Church. But when there were permanent deacons, priests and deacons shared these duties.

In any case, my concern is not that deacons will become ā€œpriests liteā€ (I like that). My concern is that they will become ā€œreligiuos liteā€. There are many areas in the apostolate where deacons and male religious overlap, such as the care of the poor. We have already seen many non-clerical brothers and many lay-brothers asked, ā€œWhy don’t you become a permanent deacon?ā€ Because people see them overlap in the works of mercy, they believe that they are the same calling, not knowing that one is consecrated and the other is ordained.

I once had someone ask me if the permanent deacons were men who could not be priests because they are married. I had to explain that there are permanent deacons who are celibate and have always been celibate. We have to educate the laity on the diaconate. We have to educate some secular priests too. Because the permanent diaconate has not been exploited yet.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF šŸ™‚
The laity will, in my opinion, tend to treat those priests who are involved in other ministries as supply priests, with the implication that the priest supplies the sacraments. There needs to be as much connection as can be fostered between the priest and the parish (noting of course that religious priests owe their community that connection before any parish they happen to serve).

As far as the deacon becoming a priest lite that is, at this point, a lesser concern. Right now they are generally (but not always) treated as ā€œlaity plusā€, hence why I think the bishop asking them to take a more active role (including hiring and even transferring them if necessary) could aid in bridging the clerical gap. I would certainly rather see a deacon named as administrator of a parish than a member of the laity, but if there is a priest available the parish should have a proper pastor (this is the one area I see this problem arising).

As far as the religious lite, aspect, I could see that happening with some single deacons who serve in close proximity to active religious orders (ie Franciscans, Dominicans, etc). The monastic order may want to take advantage to reclaim some of their cloistered life (Benedictines, Cistercians, etc).

It is a tragedy (but no longer new) that religious are pressured towards orders. I know at least one Cistercian congregation that was almost certainly destroyed by the push to eliminate lay brothers and ordain choir brothers.
 
I would certainly rather see a deacon named as administrator of a parish than a member of the laity, but if there is a priest available the parish should have a proper pastor (this is the one area I see this problem arising).
If the parish is run by a clerical community or by diocesan priests it should have a pastor. Where you find that you cannot always have a pastor, even when you have a priest, is when the parish is run by a religious community where there is equality among the members. My community has one parish with four of our brothers. Only one is a priest; but he is not the superior. Our major superior did not agree to have him appointed pastor to avoid having two authority figures in the house. The superior is a lay brother. The other lay brothers do different things in the parish. The priest is the parish administrator. It’s a parish with leadership, but without a pastor.
It is a tragedy (but no longer new) that religious are pressured towards orders. I know at least one Cistercian congregation that was almost certainly destroyed by the push to eliminate lay brothers and ordain choir brothers.
The tide is turning. Vatican II issued a mandate that all religious communities: orders and congregations return to our roots. Those communities that were traditionally lay communities have made some very important changes. The clerics no longer govern the order. Anyone can be elected superior, a cleric or a lay man. All are equally brothers. There are no privileges for the clergy in the community. There is no longer a separation in the celebration of the Liturgy of the Hours. All the brothers pray the Liturgy of the Hours together. You cannot tell who is ordained and who is not. In some communities the title Father has been dropped. Everyone is called Brother, Friar, Frater, or Hey You.

You are also going to see less ordinations among some religious orders. The number of priests got so high that it created a problem for the orders. Just like that group of Cistercians that you mentioned. Rome tried to turn some Orders into clerical isntitutes. To avoid this, some orders that were founded as lay orders have adopted a policy of restricting the number of men who can be ordained. They only ordain as many as are needed.

Religious orders are not responsible for the parish life of the Church, that is the role of the diocesan bishop. Religious orders do not have to ordain men to satisfy the need for priests in parishes. They only have to ordain enough men to satisfy the needs of the order and to do the work of the order. So communities like the Benedictines, Cistercians, Trappists, Franciscans (all 120 branches) are focussing their atention on recruiting men who want to live this way of life, not men who want to be priests. If they come, they are welcome. But if you go to their websites you will see that the selling point is their way of life. This is part of returning to the roots of the charism of each religious family. There are people who don’t like it. But you have to go back to the roots to recover your identity.

This is starting to create a hardship in some dioceses. Many orders are returning to their original ministries. They no longer serve in parishes or they keep the parishes that they have, but do not take on new ones. Orders have had to abandon parishes in order to consolidate their men. You can’t have community life with two guys in one parish. Some only serve in poor parishes, not in middle class or higher.

I know one diocese where the religious men pulled out of five parishes and three had to be closed because the bishop did not have enough diocesan priests. The religious superiors said that they could not assign men to these parishes, because they were ordaining less men AND because the young generation of religious want to go back to doing the work that the founders meant for them to do.

We’re going to see less religious in parishes. In some parishes we may see a community of religious men with only one priest instead of five. In other parishes we will see religious come to help with mass and confessions, but return to their religious houses. They won’t run the parish. I know a group of Benedictines in Texas that does this. They go out and say mass and hear confessions, but they do not run parishes. The bishop appoints lay administrators until until he can find a deacon or priest to take over. The religious will not do it. It takes way from the charism of the order.

The good news is that there are many dioceses that are getting large numbers of men entering the diocesan seminary. We have to wait and see how many remain. But there are several seminaries in the country that are full to capacity. It shows that younger men are discerning the difference between religious life and priesthood. Those who once entered religious communities, because that’s all they knew, not because they wanted to live like religious, are gone. We have a more knowledgeable generation of men. The ones who feel called to the priesthood are entering the diocesan seminaries or secular societies such as the SSPX. FSSP, Maryknoll, St. Sulpice, and Opus Dei. Those who want to be religious (clerical and non clerical) are entering religious life. But we’re not seeing guys come because this is all they know. Those days are gone.

We’re not putting out the large numbers that we did during the 1950s, but we’re putting out quality, which is important. I am very impressed by the young men entering the secular seminaries and the religious communities. I don’t think that we will see those large numbers again for another 300 years. It seems that the vocation explosion takes palce about every 300 years. Things happen and the numbers of those entering slows down. But Christ is still in charge.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF šŸ™‚
 
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