Priest Simplex

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I am interested on your views on the following:

One of the suggestions in our cluster of parishes to alleviated the priest shortage is to select men (possibly married) from the congregation and “lift them up” as candidates for ordination. I’m not sure what to think. Technically- married men can be priests-even in the Roman rite- although it certainly is an exception. I also suppose that it’s true that the ancient church “lifted” people out the community for ordination- although there may be a question whether or not the congregation made the decision- or if the traveling Bishop did (i.e- did Paul decide Timothy should be ordained- or did Tim’s congregation “lift him up”).

on face value- the idea is not totally abhorrent to me- it seems outside the norms, certainly, but it could be argued that it is not outside technical doctrine. My problem is that I know why those who are pushing this idea are pushing it (1st married men, then married women…which I know can’t happen- but if those who believe it can convince enough people that it can- there will be many upset over the “hierarchical church” yada yada yada). The other thing is- to do this is to throw up your hands as a diocese and decide “can’t win- don’t try” in regards to fostering normal vocations.

any thoughts?

thanks!
Mel
 
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mfundis:
I am interested on your views on the following:

One of the suggestions in our cluster of parishes to alleviated the priest shortage is to** select men (possibly married) from the congregation and “lift them up” as candidates for ordination.** I’m not sure what to think. Technically- married men can be priests-even in the Roman rite- although it certainly is an exception. I also suppose that it’s true that the ancient church “lifted” people out the community for ordination- although there may be a question whether or not the congregation made the decision- or if the traveling Bishop did (i.e- did Paul decide Timothy should be ordained- or did Tim’s congregation “lift him up”).

on face value- the idea is not totally abhorrent to me- it seems outside the norms, certainly, but it could be argued that it is not outside technical doctrine. My problem is that I know why those who are pushing this idea are pushing it (1st married men, then married women…which I know can’t happen- but if those who believe it can convince enough people that it can- there will be many upset over the “hierarchical church” yada yada yada). The other thing is- to do this is to throw up your hands as a diocese and decide “can’t win- don’t try” in regards to fostering normal vocations.

any thoughts?

thanks!
Mel
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Why do you use the title “Priest Simplex” with the content of your posting? It makes no sense.

First, I have no idea what you mean by “lift them up.” Sounds extremely protestant to me. It’s up to G-d to bestow priestly vocations – not the congregation.

Second, no, married men cannot be ordained as priests in the Latin Rite without a major change, although such a change is technically possible.

Finally, did you title your posting as “priest simplex” because you are actually suggesting that some men will be “lifted up” with little formation/time in seminary to become priests who cannot hear confessions or preach? I hope to God that dosen’t happen. Such antics have scarred the Church terribly in years past when there was a “shortage” of priests.
 
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mfundis:
I am interested on your views on the following:

One of the suggestions in our cluster of parishes to alleviated the priest shortage is to select men (possibly married) from the congregation and “lift them up” as candidates for ordination. I’m not sure what to think. Technically- married men can be priests-even in the Roman rite- although it certainly is an exception. I also suppose that it’s true that the ancient church “lifted” people out the community for ordination- although there may be a question whether or not the congregation made the decision- or if the traveling Bishop did (i.e- did Paul decide Timothy should be ordained- or did Tim’s congregation “lift him up”).

on face value- the idea is not totally abhorrent to me- it seems outside the norms, certainly, but it could be argued that it is not outside technical doctrine. My problem is that I know why those who are pushing this idea are pushing it (1st married men, then married women…which I know can’t happen- but if those who believe it can convince enough people that it can- there will be many upset over the “hierarchical church” yada yada yada). The other thing is- to do this is to throw up your hands as a diocese and decide “can’t win- don’t try” in regards to fostering normal vocations.

any thoughts?

thanks!
Mel
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Are the youth encouraged to consider religious life in these parishes? How many parents talk with their sons about the priesthood? Do the parishes have a vocation retreat each year?
 
Hi-

Nota, the “lift them up” is the progresso-speak used by the people who decided that this was what we should do…you know, like we are church, the creater, redeemer, sanctifier- that sort of thing.
Brother, the “lift them up” means (I think) that the congregation will decide on who will be sent to the seminary (ala congrebationalism)

as for why I put priest simplex in the title- that’s exactly what the above said people are proposing (or at least what they’re calling it). The only person I’ve ever heard of that was a priest simplex is Solanus Casey- but only because he apparently didn’t do well in seminary. These people are proposing this- in my opinion- as a way to “boil the frog” towards larger “reforms” (in their opinions)- I guess I’m torn in that I question their motives, but does that mean that this is a horrible thing- or is this the band-aid we may need to use to get us over this bump. (our Cluster has 5 parishes that share 4 priests- and that will go down to 3 priests in 2008 supposedly).

And no, vocations in the diocese and our parish have NOT been fostered. A friend of mine’s brother was supposed to enter the seminary for the diocese- but ended up entering an oratory instead because he was catching such grief from the diocese for his (orthodox) views. It’s very,very sad. The problem is, even if those of us so inclines foster vocations with the boys now- there is a lack of seminarians for- at least- a ten year period. Out of the 4 seminarians that entered with my friend’s brother- only 2 remain- the other 2 dropped out because of the friction. I don’t know what to do or where to turn- and this priest simplex idea is going to be presented to the diocese for appoval- whether we like it or not.

This whole thing has me not thinking straight
 
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mfundis:
Hi-

Nota, the “lift them up” is the progresso-speak used by the people who decided that this was what we should do…you know, like we are church, the creater, redeemer, sanctifier- that sort of thing.
Brother, the “lift them up” means (I think) that the congregation will decide on who will be sent to the seminary (ala congrebationalism)

as for why I put priest simplex in the title- that’s exactly what the above said people are proposing (or at least what they’re calling it). The only person I’ve ever heard of that was a priest simplex is Solanus Casey- but only because he apparently didn’t do well in seminary. These people are proposing this- in my opinion- as a way to “boil the frog” towards larger “reforms” (in their opinions)- I guess I’m torn in that I question their motives, but does that mean that this is a horrible thing- or is this the band-aid we may need to use to get us over this bump. (our Cluster has 5 parishes that share 4 priests- and that will go down to 3 priests in 2008 supposedly).

And no, vocations in the diocese and our parish have NOT been fostered. A friend of mine’s brother was supposed to enter the seminary for the diocese- but ended up entering an oratory instead because he was catching such grief from the diocese for his (orthodox) views. It’s very,very sad. The problem is, even if those of us so inclines foster vocations with the boys now- there is a lack of seminarians for- at least- a ten year period. Out of the 4 seminarians that entered with my friend’s brother- only 2 remain- the other 2 dropped out because of the friction. I don’t know what to do or where to turn- and this priest simplex idea is going to be presented to the diocese for appoval- whether we like it or not.

This whole thing has me not thinking straight
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The idea supposes that the Celebration of the Mass and reception of Holy Communion is all that is necessary for the spiritual good of the Faithful. This is not so.
 
Brother Rich- you’re right of course. I think one of the concerns is the parishes themselves. This form we were supposed to complete kept bringing up the probability of people going to other parishes because they have a full time priest-

God promised that the gates of hell wouldn’t prevail against the church, he never promised that it wouldn’t prevail against the parishes in southern illinois.
 
First,
People do not call someone from within the community to the priesthood. God calls a man to the priesthood though the Church.

Now the laity may suggest to a man that he may have a calling but they do not do the calling, the bishop does.

This idea has been brought up here before. In the early Church there were priests who all they could do is celebrate the Eucharist. A traveling priest would come around and do baptisms, marriages, and hear confessions.

These priests, the ones who only celebrated the Eucharist, have very little formation and were brought up out of the local communtiy. This was because universities were few and education was low for the majority of people.

This was not that wide spread and it may have worked but I doubt it as it did not survive.

I do not think this would work today either. The Church is more than just the Eucharist.
 
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mfundis:
Brother Rich- you’re right of course. I think one of the concerns is the parishes themselves. This form we were supposed to complete kept bringing up the probability of people going to other parishes because they have a full time priest-

God promised that the gates of hell wouldn’t prevail against the church, he never promised that it wouldn’t prevail against the parishes in southern illinois.
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Everyone needs to remember that a Parish community can still be a prayerful Catholic community. That devotions and ministries can take place without a resident priest. Youth Ministry, Catechesis, RCIA all can continue. Holy Communion can be received outside of Mass if necessary. Someone in the absence of a Deacon can travel to another Parish to bring sufficient Hosts back for a Communion Service. The Blessed Sacrament can be reserved in the tabernacle and taken to the dying as necessary by Lay Ministers trained for that purpose. People can travel as needed to participate in Mass. (Church law only requires reception of Holy Comunion once a year during the Easter season)

This situation is not much different than others through out the history of the Church. There were many churches without priests which St. Francis rebuilt for the use of the Faithful, for prayer and the celebration of Mass when a priest was passing through the town.
 
I think what we are failing at as a church, is to pray more for vocations. I think as a community, we need to identify people within who may be considering a vocation…and support it by actually going up to a person and saying…have you ever considered the priesthood or the diaconate. Many times, that is the straw that gets that man to truly think it aloud. I don’t believe the lack of calling from God is the problem, it is our lack of support for those who may be wrestling with answering the call. This topic was addressed in the Spring volume of a magazine called Faith and Family.faithandfamilymag.com/ It interviewed several priests and how they responded to their call. Several said, that they were moved that people actually asked them if they had ever considered a vocation to the priesthood. You can even order a free trial issue by checking out this website.

I found it also interesting that many of the men who responded come from larger families and frequently the men are the oldest sibling in the family too.
 
Priests would not have to work as hard if the Laiety stepped up and took fome of the burden.
 
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dhgray:
Priests would not have to work as hard if the Laiety stepped up and took fome of the burden.
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True, but all too often we end-up with a clericalization of the laity and a laitization of the clergy…
 
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stbruno:
I think what we are failing at as a church, is to pray more for vocations. I think as a community, we need to identify people within who may be considering a vocation…and support it by actually going up to a person and saying…have you ever considered the priesthood or the diaconate. Many times, that is the straw that gets that man to truly think it aloud. I don’t believe the lack of calling from God is the problem, it is our lack of support for those who may be wrestling with answering the call. This topic was addressed in the Spring volume of a magazine called Faith and Family.faithandfamilymag.com/ It interviewed several priests and how they responded to their call. Several said, that they were moved that people actually asked them if they had ever considered a vocation to the priesthood. You can even order a free trial issue by checking out this website.

I found it also interesting that many of the men who responded come from larger families and frequently the men are the oldest sibling in the family too.
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Excellent point. Prayer is the key. If I was a bishop, I would start a perpetual adoration chapel in my diocese and the sole purpose would be to have people in front of our Lord 24/7 praying for an increase in vocations. Jesus did say, “Ask and you shall receive.”
But we have to ask…:amen:
 
How about encouraging vocations to the priesthood and religious life the old-fashioned way.

Do everything possible to encourage children, teenagers, and young adults to consider a vocation to the priesthood and religious life.

Smaller parishes where everyone works together have always been a good source of vocations.
 
i think you need to look to the root of the problem rather than trying to change church doctrine to solve the shortage of priests. i personally think vatican II has helped in creating the shortage, but i like to put the blame on parents. if children in catholic households were actually brought up tocare about their faith and follow it, im sure their would be a lot more people considering the priesthood. in my highschool i notice that most of the guys who consider themselves catholic dont even know what their supposed to be doing to be catholic. im sure none of them have ever considered being a priest. look to the people who are teaching the children before you start coming up with non-catholic solutions.
 
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