Priest speaking against Pope at Mass?

[David_Goliath]

I’ve always been interested in religions. In college I minored in anthropology and focused on the anthropology/development of what we call “religion”.

I attended Mass this last Saturday out of intellectual curiosity and remain confused. It was an all Latin mass, “Tridentine”. I saw the letters SSPX. The priest said some things about the Pope that didn’t seem too positive. He made comments about liberalism, heresy, etc. it just sounded like he thought the current Pope was “wrong”. What’s going on? He was really upset with girls being able to be altar servers in some places.

I understand the strict conditions of Papal Infallibility ( ex cathedra, etc) but this priest really just went on and on about the “post vatican 2 church” in a negative way.

 

[ccmcmg]

It is my understanding that SSPX is not in communion with Rome or the Pope, and is outside the ordinary of the Catholic Church.

 

[Sunbreak]

The SSPX is a group that doesn’t believe in any changes that occurred with Vatican II. Therefore, they feel it’s ok to speak against any pope who has supported these changes.

 

[David_Goliath]

It is my understanding that SSPX is not in communion with Rome or the Pope, and is outside the ordinary of the Catholic Church.

Wow. The first Mass I attended isn’t even the real Catholic Church. Coincidence, they were the closest one I was at the time (not my home city.

 

[ccmcmg]

Wow. The first Mass I attended isn’t even the real Catholic Church. Coincidence, they were the closest one I was at the time (not my home city.

I’ve seen it recommended that you check the diocese website to double check. I had no idea that there was a difference until a few years ago; I’d never even heard of them.

 

[The_Curt_Jester]

Whoa! Nelly!

Have to be careful because there’s a lot of disinformation flying (or ready to fly) here. So, address them:

1. The SSPX aren’t Catholic are they?

Um, actually, the SSPX are very much Catholic. They believe in all the dogmas and doctrines of the Catholic Church. That’s something that can’t be said of many people who are considered to be in the Church! Not naming names here, nor am I making sweeping generalities.

1. Are not the SSPX out of communion with Rome (they are schismatic)?

False. It was Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos who said that they were not in schism, but were rather in an irregular situation which must be dealt with internally. If they are outside the Church it would be hard to deal with them internally, wouldn’t it? Besides, that’s a pretty straight answer. They are not to be called schismatics.

1. He disagreed with the Pope! He can’t be Catholic, can he?

In regard to saying the Pope is wrong on something. Okay, I don’t know the subject, but I’m just saying it’s not beyond the realm of possibility that the pope could ever be wrong on something when not speaking ex cathedra. To believe that a pope is forever correct even in personal opinion seems, to me, to border on papalotry. I’m not making a statement on that SSPX priest, but that disagreeing with the Pope does not make a person not Catholic. As an example, I have heard a diocesan priest (in perfectly good standing with his local Ordinary) blast something about the Pope from the pulpit. No names, but I could tell.

Whatever one may want to think of the SSPX (I have only been to a chapel once in my life and mostly attend the Novus Ordo (Ordinary Form)) it would be nice if people could actually be a little more informed about their answers. A lot of misinformation goes around and it snowballs. If you consider the TINY fraction of Catholics that make up the SSPX (I do not count laity) the “problem” they cause is considerably less so than a good many other groups that are still considered within the Church. It is absolutely mind-boggling why there is so much attention (mostly negative) toward them and everyone just ignores everything else. People need to be consistent. Right now there are far too many double standards. Please think about that!

 

[ccmcmg]

From:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_St._Pius_X

The Society of Saint Pius X (SSPX) is an international organisation, founded in 1970 by the French archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, of traditionalist Catholic priests who do not legitimately exercise any ministry within the Catholic Church and whose association has no canonical status
…
Pope Benedict XVI declared that, for doctrinal rather than disciplinary reasons, the SSPX has no canonical status in the Catholic Church and, because of that lack of canonical status, the ministries exercised by its ministers are not legitimate in the Church

 

[The_Curt_Jester]

Nowhere does that say they are not Catholic. Nor does it say they are in schism. Those are two ideas that seem to run rampant here.

 

[7_Sorrows]

I’ve always been interested in religions. In college I minored in anthropology and focused on the anthropology/development of what we call “religion”.

I attended Mass this last Saturday out of intellectual curiosity and remain confused. It was an all Latin mass, “Tridentine”. I saw the letters SSPX. The priest said some things about the Pope that didn’t seem too positive. He made comments about liberalism, heresy, etc. it just sounded like he thought the current Pope was “wrong”. What’s going on? He was really upset with girls being able to be altar servers in some places.

I understand the strict conditions of Papal Infallibility ( ex cathedra, etc) but this priest really just went on and on about the “post vatican 2 church” in a negative way.

I can understand how confused you must have been. Other than what you heard, what did you think of the Mass.

 

[7_Sorrows]

I’ve seen it recommended that you check the diocese website to double check. I had no idea that there was a difference until a few years ago; I’d never even heard of them.

There was an SSPX church within a mile of where I used to live and my neighbors attended. They were from Brazil. Eventually I learned that their sacraments are not considered valid - I think that is right and they are not in communion with the Pope.

 

[z_0101]

It is my understanding that SSPX is not in communion with Rome or the Pope, and is outside the ordinary of the Catholic Church.

Wow. The first Mass I attended isn’t even the real Catholic Church. Coincidence, they were the closest one I was at the time (not my home city.

David Goliath:
So sorry you ran afoul of this group - they are not Catholic as ccmcmg rightly points out.
Please check out your Dioceses’ website or goto masstimes.org/ to find a valid Catholic Mass in your area.

 

[Beryllos]

…
The priest said some things about the Pope that didn’t seem too positive. He made comments about liberalism, heresy, etc. it just sounded like he thought the current Pope was “wrong”. What’s going on? He was really upset with girls being able to be altar servers in some places.
…

Did the priest say this in a conversation you had with him before/after the service? I would be surprised if an SSPX priest went on such a rant within the service. That’s why I thought at first you were trolling our forum.

 

[1ke]

I saw the letters SSPX.

You were not in a Catholic parish. You were in a chapel established by priests of the Society of St Pius X. This group has a complicated status as far as Church law goes. They do not have any ministry in the Church-- so the Mass would be considered illicit. Since the priests in this society have been validly ordained by a bishop who broke communion with the Catholic Church, they have valid holy orders. Therefore, while illicit (not allowed by law) the mass was valid.

What’s going on?

The book “More Catholic Than the Pope” by Patrick Madrid would be a good place to start to understand this group of priests and the people they attract to their masses.

I understand the strict conditions of Papal Infallibility ( ex cathedra, etc) but this priest really just went on and on about the “post vatican 2 church” in a negative way.

Yes, very sad.

I would encourage you to go to the website of the diocese in which you live and select a parish off of the diocesan list if you would like to attend a Catholic Church in communion with the Pope.

You can look for parishes with the Mass in Latin (will either say Latin Mass or Tridentine or TLM) or you can go to Mass in English (or in some dioceses Spanish or Vietnamese or Hmong or Chinese or any other of a number of languages).

 

[David_Goliath]

I forgot to mention that most comments were made before the Mass when I introduced myself as a visitor. A few (less intense?) remarks during the homily.

I followed the missal. I think to first really learn about the Mass I need to visit a Novus Ordo.

 

[Bookcat]

Yes not a Mass to attend (nor receive in).

tis the SSPX. Catholic Answers main site will have I imagine a good deal on the group.

 

[Waynec]

From:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_St._Pius_X

The Society of Saint Pius X (SSPX) is an international organisation, founded in 1970 by the French archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, of traditionalist Catholic priests who do not legitimately exercise any ministry within the Catholic Church and whose association has no canonical status
…
Pope Benedict XVI declared that, for doctrinal rather than disciplinary reasons, the SSPX has no canonical status in the Catholic Church and, because of that lack of canonical status, the ministries exercised by its ministers are not legitimate in the Church

This is an interesting and illuminating video.
cfnews.org/page4/cfn_media.html

 

[Ignatius]

I’ve always been interested in religions. In college I minored in anthropology and focused on the anthropology/development of what we call “religion”.

I attended Mass this last Saturday out of intellectual curiosity and remain confused. It was an all Latin mass, “Tridentine”. I saw the letters SSPX. The priest said some things about the Pope that didn’t seem too positive. He made comments about liberalism, heresy, etc. it just sounded like he thought the current Pope was “wrong”. What’s going on? He was really upset with girls being able to be altar servers in some places.

I understand the strict conditions of Papal Infallibility ( ex cathedra, etc) but this priest really just went on and on about the “post vatican 2 church” in a negative way.

The SSPX split with The Catholic Church several decades ago, what is called Schism. Pope Benedict XVI lifted the excommunications and attempted to bring them back into the fold but, sadly, to no avail.

 

[Ignatius]

If you want to find a Catholic Church, you can find one using “Masstimes.org” here: masstimes.org/ Just type in your zip code to find Churches near you.