Priest telling potential converts to remain protestant

[Image_of_God]

This is the new post-Vatican II religion at work, religious indifferentism. All religions are equal to Catholicism, salvation can be attained through all forms of Protestantism, Judaism, Hinduism, etc (the message of Assisi). No more need for missionaries, except to distribute condoms in the jungles of Africa.

The new post-Vatican religion is the same religion before the Council----Catholicism. The Catholic Church has never said that Protestantism is equal to Catholicism, never. In fact, it say that Protestantism is not the full truth. But it has stated that it is not true to say that Protestant Baptisms are completely non-Salvific. No one should dare say that it is religious indifferentism to believe that God does not abandon the souls validly Baptized into Protestatism, although they are in heresy.
The believing that Protestantism is Salvific is not indifferent, it is true. God does not abandon anyone who is not in knowledge of the full truth by their own fault does he? If not, then it is only reasonable that one believe that Protestantism is Salvific.

However, Protestantism is a heresy, and the Vatican Council II has certainly taken this into account. Protestantism may not be Salvific if a Protestant knowingly regects the Catholic Truth after knowing it is completely true. Protestantism in most cases is a Material Heresy not a Formal one. The Catholic Church has always taught that a Material Heresy is not condemning because in this case the person does not have knowledge of the truth.

The belief that Protestantism is Salvific is not being religiously indifferent. It is being true and straightfoward. However in the case of Non Christian Religions, the Council of Vatican II has never said that it is equal to Catholicism. In fact, it has continually stressed that there is no religion, Christian of Non-Christian, that is as true as Catholicism.

 

[janryboy]

it depends on how the priest reply…

if he scorned and furiously did it…well its a disgrace…

maybe he is just testing the Fith and Will of the person to be converted…

 

[Eliza10]

Around the time I decided to convert, I called my local church. The long-time church worker (involved with education) I talked to commented concerning my converting, “It really doesn’t matter which chruch you go to [meaning Catholic or Protestant].”

I was completely floored, and offended. It was such a scarfice to me to convert, and I was in the middle of the strife it was causing, strife I never wanted. If it didn’t matter, why would I go through all that??

In my shock, I did not do a very good job explaiing to her the effect her statement had on me. I was just turned off. I should have explained somehow that the truth of the Catholic faith is the *pearl of great price. *

 

[fix]

The belief that Protestantism is Salvific is not being religiously indifferent. It is being true and straightfoward.

It is strightforward if properly stated:

In fact, “the elements of this already-given Church exist, joined together in their fullness in the Catholic Church and, without this fullness, in the other communities”.65 “Therefore, these separated Churches and communities as such, though we believe they suffer from defects, have by no means been deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Catholic Church”.66

DOMINUS IESUS

 

[giuseppeTO]

The belief that Protestantism is Salvific is not being religiously indifferent. It is being true and straightfoward. However in the case of Non Christian Religions, the Council of Vatican II has never said that it is equal to Catholicism. In fact, it has continually stressed that there is no religion, Christian of Non-Christian, that is as true as Catholicism.

Eliza10:
Around the time I decided to convert, I called my local church. The long-time church worker (involved with education) I talked to commented concerning my converting, “It really doesn’t matter which chruch you go to [meaning Catholic or Protestant].”

I was completely floored, and offended. It was such a scarfice to me to convert, and I was in the middle of the strife it was causing, strife I never wanted. If it didn’t matter, why would I go through all that??

In my shock, I did not do a very good job explaiing to her the effect her statement had on me. I was just turned off. I should have explained somehow that the truth of the Catholic faith is the pearl of great price.

This is the post-conciliar error of religious indifferentism.

 

[jmcrae]

This is the post-conciliar error of religious indifferentism.

It is, indeed, the error of religious indifferentism, but it has little or nothing to do with the Second Vatican Council, since I have never found any statement in any of its documents to say that all religions are equally salvific - indeed, the documents are emphatic that the Catholic Church is the True Faith, and that all others are good insofar as they imitate Her, and false where ever they depart from Her.

Individuals in the Catholic Church have been religiously indifferent before the Council, as well - it is not a new phenomenon - in fact, it goes back to the Reformation itself. Keep in mind, the Reformation could not have occurred if there had not been large numbers of indifferent Catholics who didn’t see any need to be martyred for their Catholic faith by the Protestants, but chose instead to follow the prevailing winds and join the religion du jour (the local form of Protestantism), instead.

Huge swaths of Northern Europe became Protestant precisely because these pre-Conciliar Catholics couldn’t tell the difference between a Protestant religion and the Catholic faith, and figured that one was just as good as the other, or better, if they let you keep your head on.

 

[Image_of_God]

It is, indeed, the error of religious indifferentism, but it has little or nothing to do with the Second Vatican Council, since I have never found any statement in any of its documents to say that all religions are equally salvific - indeed, the documents are emphatic that the Catholic Church is the True Faith, and that all others are good insofar as they imitate Her, and false where ever they depart from Her.

Individuals in the Catholic Church have been religiously indifferent before the Council, as well - it is not a new phenomenon - in fact, it goes back to the Reformation itself. Keep in mind, the Reformation could not have occurred if there had not been large numbers of indifferent Catholics who didn’t see any need to be martyred for their Catholic faith by the Protestants, but chose instead to follow the prevailing winds and join the religion du jour (the local form of Protestantism), instead.

Huge swaths of Northern Europe became Protestant precisely because these pre-Conciliar Catholics couldn’t tell the difference between a Protestant religion and the Catholic faith, and figured that one was just as good as the other, or better, if they let you keep your head on.

This, if in a responce to my statement, is irrevelant to the person accusing me of "religious indifferantism. I think it is unfair to accuse me of this because I never said that Hinduism was equal to Catholicism. I simply said that Protestantism is salvific, if the person is in fact in material heresy. I never said that all religions are equally salvific. I said that Protestantism can be salvific since it is Christian however incomplete it may be. The Council of Trent said that baptisms that are valid, even though done by and into heresy, are still valid. Protestantism is not equally salvific to Catholicism, I said that it is salvific, however. I am not in error of religious indifferentism and this is a serious matter that you are accusing me of.

 

[glimmer]

This is the new post-Vatican II religion at work, religious indifferentism. All religions are equal to Catholicism, salvation can be attained through all forms of Protestantism, Judaism, Hinduism, etc (the message of Assisi). No more need for missionaries, except to distribute condoms in the jungles of Africa.

I have been surprised at how MUCH tolerance the Catholic Church has shown, given that there is no other name in heaven or on earth by which we may be saved other than the name of Jesus Christ. Really, I have sometimes wondered just how far they intend to take this tolerance.

 

[Image_of_God]

I have been surprised at how MUCH tolerance the Catholic Church has shown, given that there is no other name in heaven or on earth by which we may be saved other than the name of Jesus Christ. Really, I have sometimes wondered just how far they intend to take this tolerance.

The Catholic Church has alway acknowledged the neccessity of baptism to be saved. As far as I am concerned, it is most concerned about baptism. The Catholic Church has never said that Hindus, Buddhists, etc. can be saved without baptism.

843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."332

844 In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them:

Very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasonings, and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and served the creature rather than the Creator. Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair.333
845 To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son’s Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is “the world reconciled.” She is that bark which “in the full sail of the Lord’s cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world.” According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah’s ark, which alone saves from the flood.334

In this statement it clearly shows the Catholic Teaching in this matter.

 

[Image_of_God]

This is the post-conciliar error of religious indifferentism.

I have never said that the differences between Protestantism and Catholicism never mattered!

I said specifically:
"If they see the truth in the Church, because God has openned their eyes, then they should most definitely not ignore the Holy Spirit and they should convert."
If one does not see the truth in Catholicism, they should not convert, for such would be going against their own mind. In fact, I clearly stated that for one to know that Catholicism is the full truth, but to remain Protestant is a serious sin, a formal heresy, a mortal sin, an ignoring of the Holy Spirit.
It is important for all Protestants to be converted to Catholicism, and I will not stop from sharing the truth about Catholic Doctrine to them, but they have to believe with a sincere faith otherwise the conversion is not real. That is all I am saying.

 

[O.S.Luke]

When I considered converting several years ago, the priest and the bishop were very reticent to converse about it, because of my position in my own denomination. My spiritual director, a Catholic, was sure after years of spiritual direction that I was indeed called to ordination, and that the Apostolic See is currently less and less enchanted with converted married men becoming priests who were formerly ordained in Anglican/Methodist communions (there are a few former Methodist pastors who are now Catholic priests).

Since then, I have been further convicted that I could never withhold the Eucharist from a repentant baptized Christian who believes in the Real Presence, or be a party to it. So I am at peace, and Home.

 

[JOE_OBERR]

The reason the priest responded the way he did is due, in large part, to the weak seminary training he received. He wasn’t taught that the primary reason Jesus became man was to save us today from the slavery and oppression of sin in order that we could get to know God, love him and our fellow brothers and sisters, and have some degree of happiness here on earth which would continue, in fullness, in heaven after we die (final salvation).

Lk 4:18 “I have come to liberate the prisoners, free the oppressed…”
Jn 10:1 “I came that they may have** life**, and have it abundantly.”
Mt 20:28 “Even as the Son of man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his** life** as a ransom for many." The only one who is ransomed is a slave or a prisoner. “He who commits sin is a slave of sin”.
Jesus came to free us from sin and its horrible personal and social consequences by giving his life as a ransom. Jn 8:32 “and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you** free**." He merited the graces to free us from the slavery to sin by his death and resurrection on the cross and merited the graces for us to become adopted sons of God by his resurrection from the dead.

Memorial Acclamation: “By your cross and resurrection you have set us free, you are the savior of the world.” Set us free from what? From the slavery of sin. One who has been rescued from a burning building or drowning is no longer affected by the fire or water. He is freed from the danger; the fire & water no longer threaten or imperil his life.

Of course we have to ask for the graces to be freed of sin which is why he founded a Church to preach the Gospel. If we don’t know the Gospel in its fullness we won’t be aware of the salvation awaiting us through baptism, frequent reception of the Eucharist, good works and prayer. These are the means of obtaining grace to free us from sin & to keep us free so we are not miserable and in gloom.

The primary means of grace to free us from this slavery is the Eucharist. Jn 6:53 “Unless you eat my body and drink my blood you have no life within you.” This is why Jesus instituted the Eucharist, so freed of sin we can have some degree of happiness here and perfect happiness in heaven if we die in the state of salvation, i.e., no unrepentant mortal sins on our soul. Unrepentant mortal sin on our soul at death is telling God that I don’t want to go to heaven. I would rather go to hell than face you for all eternity attempting to tell You that You were wrong and I was right.

So if I were a priest I would be chomping at the bit to spread this good news to the world. So much of the misery in our country is due to serious sin leading to illness, prison & death through drugs, alchohol, unforgiveness, hatred, lust etc. If the good, prayerful priests were aware of this tremendous gift they would be spending most of their time preaching the Gospel, because it and it alone has the power to save us from the wretchedness and despair of sin. (BTW, the primary task of bishops & priests is to preach the Gospel.) But unless they were taught its content, kernel and center in the seminary, it’s impossible to do.

One cannot preach what one does not know.

 

[AmbroseSJ]

The reason the priest responded the way he did is due, in large part, to the weak seminary training he received.

That was my thought while reading through this thread.

The young pastor in my church was giving a “course” on apologetics during Wednesdays in Lent one year. He was discussing the Eucharist in terms we Catholics know so well. Suddenly a parishioner raises his hand to ask why the Protestants don’t believe in the Eucharist the way we do. He had no idea and said so. I raised my hand and suggested that the Protestants stuck at the word “Transubstantiation.” The Pastor waved that off and replied that the Bible doesn’t say HOW transubstantiation happens, it just a mystery Catholics believe. I would have continued to offer more suggestions, but I had gotten enough glares from those around me for “upstaging” the Pastor with my earlier response.

I know our young Pastor is very weak in apologetics, and I fear this is the norm.