Priest told me, my girlfriend is not married, no need for an annulment!

[Eremitic]

I went for an interview today with my priest and he told me that there was no marriage in my girlfriend’s case. No need to send it to marriage tribunal.
He didn’t even want to read the letter describing her marriage, just first few sentences he did read. He just asked me if she contracted this marriage before any civil or religious authority, and does she have a marriage certificate.
I said no. Because once she found out about this man’s lifestyle and especially about his girlfriend she refused to register her marriage and attend Muslim religious ceremony.

I am getting dispensation from bishop to marry a non Catholic. I also want to get a dispensation from religious ceremony. It is not necessary in mixed marriages. Her family is moving and they want this done. They want us to get married as soon as possible. I and they can’t wait another 6 months. Can I ask a priest for permission to get married before some government official?

 

[promethius]

I went for an interview today with my priest and he told me that there was no marriage in my girlfriend’s case. No need to send it to marriage tribunal.
He didn’t even want to read the letter describing her marriage, just first few sentences he did read. He just asked me if she contracted this marriage before any civil or religious authority, and does she have a marriage certificate.
I said no. Because once she found out about this man’s lifestyle and especially about his girlfriend she refused to register her marriage and attend Muslim religious ceremony.

that is correct, with no legal or religious ceremony, no marraige occured. A marraige is more than a simple handshake agreement between two persons or two families.

I am getting dispensation from bishop to marry a non Catholic. I also want to get a dispensation from religious ceremony. It is not necessary in mixed marriages. Her family is moving and they want this done. They want us to get married as soon as possible. I and they can’t wait another 6 months. Can I ask a priest for permission to get married before some government official?

The process cannot be rushed. A marraige is a life-long commitment and is not to be undertaken lightly. You do not show love for your fiance by wanting to rush through the wickets and get married in a dubious manner.

 

[Eremitic]

that is correct, with no legal or religious ceremony, no marraige occured. A marraige is more than a simple handshake agreement between two persons or two families.

I forgot to say she did have a common law marriage which I think the Church recognizes as valid.
A Common Law marriage is one entered into without ceremony of any sort, but where man and woman live together as man and wife and give themselves out as such to the world.

This is what she told me:

We didn’t contract the marriage between any civil or religious authority. It was an arranged marriage. In our culture (Romani society and culture en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_society_and_culture) marriage first takes place after it is confirmed that you are a virgin. We had something like the common law marriage, private consent to perform the marriage act. I did choose to perform the marriage act with him because I imagined he was good and didn’t have a girlfriend, like he said he didn’t. **If he didn’t I would have stayed. **
When I reflect back I also see the other part of me was choosing him because of my family as I already mentioned. In our culture the man is also under obligation of the purity law, meaning if he has a girlfriend and is not chaste you can divorce him. That is what I wanted to do as soon as I learned more about him. Later on I didn’t want to go to government office to register our marriage and go to our religious Muslim ceremony because I didn’t like him anymore; after he told me the truth and after I learned and saw clearly who he was and what I was doing with my life.

 

[promethius]

I forgot to say she did have a common law marriage which I think the Church recognizes as valid.
A Common Law marriage is one entered into without ceremony of any sort, but where man and woman live together as man and wife and give themselves out as such to the world.

This is what she told me:

We didn’t contract the marriage between any civil or religious authority. It was an arranged marriage. In our culture (Romani society and culture en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_society_and_culture) marriage first takes place after it is confirmed that you are a virgin. We had something like the common law marriage, private consent to perform the marriage act. I did choose to perform the marriage act with him because I imagined he was good and didn’t have a girlfriend, like he said he didn’t. **If he didn’t I would have stayed. **
When I reflect back I also see the other part of me was choosing him because of my family as I already mentioned. In our culture the man is also under obligation of the purity law, meaning if he has a girlfriend and is not chaste you can divorce him. That is what I wanted to do as soon as I learned more about him. Later on I didn’t want to go to government office to register our marriage and go to our religious Muslim ceremony because I didn’t like him anymore; after he told me the truth and after I learned and saw clearly who he was and what I was doing with my life.

Common law marraige is a secular implementation of law… and is independent of her “romani” culture. Basically, if the area she lived in had no common law marraige law, then there was no civil marraige… whether or not she lived with him and told people they were married.

 

[Eremitic]

Common law marraige is a secular implementation of law… and is independent of her “romani” culture. Basically, if the area she lived in had no common law marraige law, then there was no civil marraige… whether or not she lived with him and told people they were married.

Thank you promethius.

She did have her arranged marriage done here in Toronto, Canada. People gave me different answers on this thread.

Muslim girfriend; does she need to have her marriage annulled
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=625397

 

[promethius]

Thank you promethius.

She did have her arranged marriage done here in Toronto, Canada. People gave me different answers on this thread.

Muslim girfriend; does she need to have her marriage annulled
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=625397

Just checked the definition of a common law marriage for Toronto, and it means a couple who has had conjugal cohabitation for a period of three years or more and are the natural or adoptive parents of a child.

Ergo, if she didn’t have a child (adopted or through childbirth) with the man, she CANNOT be common law married to him… even if they lived together for more than three years.

Granted, of course, that this is NOT legal advice, not binding in any way whatsoever, and that if you have ongoing concerns you should address them with a priest and a competant legal authority.

 

[Jesus_123]

I went for an interview today with my priest and he told me that there was no marriage in my girlfriend’s case. No need to send it to marriage tribunal.
He didn’t even want to read the letter describing her marriage, just first few sentences he did read. He just asked me if she contracted this marriage before any civil or religious authority, and does she have a marriage certificate.
I said no. Because once she found out about this man’s lifestyle and especially about his girlfriend she refused to register her marriage and attend Muslim religious ceremony.

I am getting dispensation from bishop to marry a non Catholic. I also want to get a dispensation from religious ceremony. It is not necessary in mixed marriages. Her family is moving and they want this done. They want us to get married as soon as possible. I and they can’t wait another 6 months. Can I ask a priest for permission to get married before some government official?

+There is no such thing as a . . . “dispensation from religious ceremony” . . . in the Catholic church . . . marriage for a Catholic is a Sacrament and it always entails a religious ceremony . . . Catholic Canon Law is very clear on this and must be followed . . . **exactly and explicitly **. . . as recorded in the Statutes of Canon Law below . . . for a marriage of a Catholic to be considered valid and licit . . . a civil legal marriage before a “government official” only . . . for a Catholic . . . is considered illicit and invalid in the eyes of the Church . . . and the couple is not considered married in the eyes of the Church or in the eyes of God . . .

. . . :coffeeread: . . .
Canon Law Regarding the Holy Sacrament of Marriage for a Catholic . . .

**Can. 1108 §1. **Only those marriages are valid which are contracted before the local ordinary, pastor, or a priest or deacon delegated by either of them, who assist, and before two witnesses according to the rules expressed in the following canons and without prejudice to the exceptions mentioned in cann. ⇒ 144, ⇒ 1112, §1, ⇒ 1116, and ⇒ 1127, §§1-2.

**Can. 1117 **The form established above must be observed if at least one of the parties contracting marriage was baptized in the Catholic Church or received into it …] without prejudice to the prescripts of ⇒ can. 1127, §2.​

. . . all for Jesus+
. . . thank You Blessed Holy Mother Church+​

 

[promethius]

+There is no such thing as a . . . “dispensation from religious ceremony” . . . in the Catholic church . . . marriage for a Catholic is a Sacrament and it always entails a religious ceremony . . . Catholic Canon Law is very clear on this and must be followed . . . **exactly and explicitly **. . . as recorded in the Statues of Canon Law below . . . for a marriage of a Catholic to be considered valid and licit . . . a civil legal marriage before a “government official” only . . . for a Catholic . . . is considered illicit and invalid in the eyes of the Church . . . and the couple is not considered married in the eyes of the Church or in the eyes of God . . .

. . . :coffeeread: . . .
**Canon Law Regarding the Holy Sacrament of Marriage for a Catholic . . . **

**Can. 1108 §1. **Only those marriages are valid which are contracted before the local ordinary, pastor, or a priest or deacon delegated by either of them, who assist, and before two witnesses according to the rules expressed in the following canons and without prejudice to the exceptions mentioned in cann. ⇒ 144, ⇒ 1112, §1, ⇒ 1116, and ⇒ 1127, §§1-2.

**Can. 1117 **The form established above must be observed if at least one of the parties contracting marriage was baptized in the Catholic Church or received into it …] without prejudice to the prescripts of ⇒ can. 1127, §2.

​

. . . all for Jesus+

. . . thank You Blessed Holy Mother Church+​

Actually, there is such a thing, under Canon 1127, as a dispensation from Canonical form for mixed marraiges where a particular catholic ceremony presents an insurmountable difficulty. The ordinary must grant this and must be assured by the competant celebrating ordinary that the form is sufficient to ensure that the marraige will be both valid and licit…

As to the sacramentality of a mixed marraige insofar as one is baptized and the other is not (the case where the fiance is muslim), it would not be a sacrament.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Just for your peace of mind, chat with your priest to see if he knows of a priest who also happens to be an “ordinary” civil attorney.

What you may want is some kind of “letter” * disbanding any informal “link” between your girlfriend and her former “whatever”.*

 

[Castello]

Actually, there is such a thing, under Canon 1127, as a dispensation from Canonical form for mixed marraiges where a particular catholic ceremony presents an insurmountable difficulty. The ordinary must grant this and must be assured by the competant celebrating ordinary that the form is sufficient to ensure that the marraige will be both valid and licit…

As to the sacramentality of a mixed marraige insofar as one is baptized and the other is not (the case where the fiance is muslim), it would not be a sacrament.

Ditto this.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

I was once involved in a court case. In that case a man and woman told the judge they were common law husband and wife. He told them: “no you are not; the common law makes no provision for marriage”.

Your girlfriend and her former ‘husband’ cohabited. The Church prefers a civil or religious ceremony to determine if a non-Catholic man and woman are married. However, a ceremony is not absolutely required for a man and woman to contract a marriage.

I would go very slowly in your circumstances. Check and double check that nothing in your girlfriend’s arrangements with this man can in anyway be remotely construed as a marriage contract. If she is married then she is not free to marry you.

Why are you and her family rushing? You need to give time for the priest to carry out the pre-marital investigation. You and your intended should attended an appropriate pre-marriage preparation programme.

Why not have a Catholic wedding? You will need to obtain a dispensation from the impediment of disparity of cult. If you do not want to have a Catholic marriage you will also need dispensation from canonical form.

 

[dochawk]

I was once involved in a court case. In that case a man and woman told the judge they were common law husband and wife. He told them: “no you are not; the common law makes no provision for marriage”.

I’ve encounterd judges who didn’t belong on the bench in my practice, too.

If that’s actually what he said, his training was woefully inadequate. OTOH, the number of states that still recognize new common law marriages is dropping rapidly.

If the judge said, perhaps, “California has no Common Law marriage,” that would be another story. The community property states have never had common law marriage–but you can complete a common law marriage started in another state in one.

Anyway, unless a state is either a CP state or has legislatively abolished common law marriage, it is still the law of that state, along with adverse possession and many other doctrines.

dochawk, esq.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

I’ve encounterd judges who didn’t belong on the bench in my practice, too.

If that’s actually what he said, his training was woefully inadequate. OTOH, the number of states that still recognize new common law marriages is dropping rapidly.

If the judge said, perhaps, “California has no Common Law marriage,” that would be another story. The community property states have never had common law marriage–but you can complete a common law marriage started in another state in one.

Anyway, unless a state is either a CP state or has legislatively abolished common law marriage, it is still the law of that state, along with adverse possession and many other doctrines.

dochawk, esq.

The judge I quoted was correct, not wrong. I am in England not the US. What the judge meant was not the system of law we have: common law. He meant common law as opposed to statutory law. That is law by custom rather than by statute. Marriage in England is regulated by statute law. Therefore, a man and woman who live in the same dwelling living as if they were husband and wife are legally called cohabitees. An example of a common law matter in England would be murder. There’s no statute in England that makes murder an offence. It is an offence, in effect, by custom or common practise: a common law offence.