Priest used crystal chalices

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We had crystal, excepting the priest’s chalice. This past Holy Thursday, we were able to start using four very pretty precious metal smaller chalices, in addition to the priest’s chalice. Our people are careful, but I was always afraid of breakage. The smaller units alo seem to have better “balance” when receiving.
 
The whole purpose for not allowing glass or crystal chalices is due to breakage and the possibility of spilling the Precious Blood of Jesus. This is the same reason for not concecrating wine-filled Flagons (a pitcher) and then pouring the flagon into individual chalices. The “likelihood” of spilling exists.

You must remember that the Blood of Christ is present after concecration. We should treat the Precious Blood with a very reverent and special way. Spilling it or causing it to hit the floor would be a travesty to Jesus.

Suggesting a paper cup is just rude and a insult to God and Jesus. This suggestion made me sad for the person posting it. . . even if it was jokingly done.

A gold-lined chalice is the least we could do for the Precious Blood of Christ.
 
Certainly there is a “scale” in the order of abuses that can occur. Those that render the Mass illicit would be at the top.

But the question that arises, at least for folks like me is:

“If the Church says do A, why would a Priest want to do B?”

Either the priest is:

  1. *]Ignorant of the prescribe procedure
    *]Willfully substituting his preference over the Church
    *]Made a mistake

    If he is ignorant of the prescribed rubric, it should be alarming as the Mass is the highest form of worship. If he is willfully substituting his preference over the Church, it certainly is not limited to the material of the chalice. There will be more significant “preferences” that will materialize. If he made a mistake, it should occur every Mass.

    Peace,

    MilesJesu
 
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otm:
There are abuses and then there are things that are not exactly according to Hoyle. They hardly qualify for the term “abuse”.

I find it difficult to understand, given that there is always a hierarchy of rules, with some more important than others, how anyone who is truly praying can be so watchfull of every little gesture, every small inuendo, and still be focused on God and prayer.

I would find it jarring to have the Gospel eliminated, or the words of consecration radically changed. But to be upset because expensive crystal was used instead of a cup made of cheaper materials with a thin gold coating sprayed on it baffles me. I am there to worship, to pray with the community and the priest, to hear the Word of God, to be directly involved with Christ’s passion and death, to share a sared meal, and what cup they use pales into insignificance as far as I am concerned.

I am not flippant about the rules, but the rules aren’t magic. I would prefer to see them followed, but I am much more interested in being united with Christ than I am interested in what type of cup they used.
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Well said…Ours is a very large parish…It would be cost prohimitive to use only gold goblets for the distribution of the Precious Blood.

The priest does use a “gold” chalice, but the EM’s use crystal ones…The consecrated hosts are in a large crystal bowl, and the distributors use metal ciboria…This works well for us, and I have no problem with it. The crystal is beautiful, and well taken care of.
 
The only suggestions I have for you is to first consult your parish sacristan to see if the proper chalices exist in the parish. With the latest GIRM, the change has been a hardship for some parishes. Your parish may not have made a purchase of the correct type of chalices.

If your parish has the proper chalices, contact your pastor and politely ask him why they are not using them. This may be touchy if the pastor doesn’t want to change and is holding his ground on the change in the GIRM.

If the pastor is refusing to change, the next step would be to contact your local bishop. That should be a last resort. Your local bishop is probably very busy so don’t expect a quick response or any response at all. Your Pastor might be asked to correct his actions without any response to you.

As they teach in the seminary, our clergy OWES the faithful a consistent liturgy. This means that a mass in Washington State should be the same as a mass in Washington, D.C. Straying from the approved text of the liturgy and the GIRM should not be allowed by ANYONE. . . . not the cantor, not the lector, not the usher, not the deacon, and not even the priest.
 
As for the material of the chalice, and what is actually going on, it is indeed very important.

To use earthenware for a chalice, it would appear, at least to me, be obscene. If during the consecration, the wine becomes the actual Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ, why would someone want to use an absorbent material such as earthenware?

If earthenware is used, and it abosrbs the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ, what do they do with the earthenware chalice? Do they put it in a closet? Do they put it on a tray and move it to a back room, turning the lights off and “locking it up?”

Peace,

MilesJesu
 
Catholic Heart:
Well said…Ours is a very large parish…It would be cost prohimitive to use only gold goblets for the distribution of the Precious Blood.

The priest does use a “gold” chalice, but the EM’s use crystal ones…The consecrated hosts are in a large crystal bowl, and the distributors use metal ciboria…This works well for us, and I have no problem with it. The crystal is beautiful, and well taken care of.
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It is nice that you don’t have a problem with it but truly, and I don’t want this to sound as rude as it will, your opinion doesn’t matter to the Church on this item. That is the whole problem we are talking about here - people allowing their opinion to subvert the teachings & rules of the Roman Catholic Church.

We have a set of rules to follow - some very old rules - and people should not be following their own set of guildlines.

For the reasons already stated, the chalice needs to be one that is prescribed by the GIRM. The cost is not very prohibitive - you are not obligated to purchase chalices of the same opulence as that of the main chalice. It only needs to be a simple chalice and they cost as little as $50.00 each. Not a big expense for a large parish.
 
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Edwin1961:
There is nit picking and picking nits.
True the has a structured form that NEEDS to be followed to be in union with The Church, however worrying about what chalie to use is just silly.

So, What kind of Challice did JESUS use?
Is THAT important?
What should be the rule is that: Whatever the parrish has that is THE BEST quality should be used, especially on Sundays. Maybe the other chalies can be used during the weekday Masses.
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This is not about the parish or priest’s personal likes or agendas(and if they continue using these wine glasses they have an agenda of defience towards Rome to make some statement) the priest is to do in the PUBLIC LITURGY of the CHURCH (not his own little private thing) what the CHURCH asks, and she has ordered that those wine glasses, wooden hippie ones or 1970’s clay ones not be used!!!
 
Our previous parish priest had a crystal chalice and his argument was that we could SEE the precious blood.

As an EMHC I was putting the chalice back in a cupboard after Mass and bumped it into a shelf and it broke.

The new parish priest has gone back to metal chalice (gold plated).
 
From the GIRM:
  1. Sacred vessels are to be made from precious metal. If they are made from metal that rusts or from a metal less precious than gold, then ordinarily they should be gilded on the inside.
  2. As regards chalices and other vessels that are intended to serve as receptacles for the Blood of the Lord, they are to have bowls of nonabsorbent material. The base, on the other hand, may be made of other solid and worthy materials.
    And because this may not have been clear enough the first time, it was restated in Redemptionis Sacramentum:
  3. Sacred vessels for containing the Body and Blood of the Lord must be made in strict conformity with the norms of tradition and of the liturgical books.205 The Bishops’ Conferences have the faculty to decide whether it is appropriate, once their decisions have been given the recognitio by the Apostolic See, for sacred vessels to be made of other solid materials as well. It is strictly required, however, that such materials be truly noble in the common estimation within a given region,206 so that honor will be given to the Lord by their use, and all risk of diminishing the doctrine of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharistic species in the eyes of the faithful will be avoided. Reprobated, therefore, is any practice of using for the celebration of Mass common vessels, or others lacking in quality, or devoid of all artistic merit or which are mere containers, as also other vessels made from glass, earthenware, clay, or other materials that break easily. This norm is to be applied even as regards metals and other materials that easily rust or deteriorate.207
    To use anything breakable or common is illicit. Despite what some here are suggesting, it is important.
 
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MilesJesu:
As for the material of the chalice, and what is actually going on, it is indeed very important.

To use earthenware for a chalice, it would appear, at least to me, be obscene. If during the consecration, the wine becomes the actual Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ, why would someone want to use an absorbent material such as earthenware?

If earthenware is used, and it abosrbs the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ, what do they do with the earthenware chalice? Do they put it in a closet? Do they put it on a tray and move it to a back room, turning the lights off and “locking it up?”

Peace,

MilesJesu
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I’m not advocating for earthenware, but it would be “safe” to do use it if what you’re worrying about is absorption. Ceramic used for any liquid purpose is fired to a degree called “vetrification.” It doesn’t absorb anything.
 
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MilesJesu:
As for the material of the chalice, and what is actually going on, it is indeed very important.

To use earthenware for a chalice, it would appear, at least to me, be obscene. If during the consecration, the wine becomes the actual Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ, why would someone want to use an absorbent material such as earthenware?

If earthenware is used, and it abosrbs the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ, what do they do with the earthenware chalice? Do they put it in a closet? Do they put it on a tray and move it to a back room, turning the lights off and “locking it up?”

Peace,

MilesJesu
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I haven’t seen earthenware used in quite a while. However, what earthenware I have seen is glazed and so the cup is non-absorbant; the problem is moot.
 
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DIT:
It is nice that you don’t have a problem with it but truly, and I don’t want this to sound as rude as it will, your opinion doesn’t matter to the Church on this item. That is the whole problem we are talking about here - people allowing their opinion to subvert the teachings & rules of the Roman Catholic Church.

We have a set of rules to follow - some very old rules - and people should not be following their own set of guildlines.

For the reasons already stated, the chalice needs to be one that is prescribed by the GIRM. The cost is not very prohibitive - you are not obligated to purchase chalices of the same opulence as that of the main chalice. It only needs to be a simple chalice and they cost as little as $50.00 each. Not a big expense for a large parish.
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If you want to go that route, then how is it you are disagreeing with chalices made of crystal that are equal to, or greater in cost than your simple chalices? If we are to honor /Christ, would we not use the best?
 
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Desert_82:
http://www.orlandolatinmass.com/mahoneyheretic.jpg

At least the priest used crystal
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Now, we cannot determine that what the Cardinal is using is crystal. I’d bet it’s not, but let’s not be inflammatory. It hardly serves the discussion, really. The question was whether or not crystal was permitted, as it’s regarded as a precious material. In the balance, we have to deal with the fact that it can shatter. Of course, that implies that it will have been dropped and the Most Precious Blood would be spilled anyway, which should be the main concern. Spillage could happen with a metal chalice, precious or not.
 
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otm:
If you want to go that route, then how is it you are disagreeing with chalices made of crystal that are equal to, or greater in cost than your simple chalices? If we are to honor /Christ, would we not use the best?
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I have looked into this recently, and the cheapest precious metal chalices available were at least $500. But then again, they were very artistic and not in any way “plain”.

Still, rather than cost, the tiebreaker is the fragility of glass, crystal, and earthenware. Unfortunately, this criteria still leaves something to be desired; If one were to drop the sacred vessel containing the Precious Blood, there will be spillage whether the vessel breaks or stays intact.

For the record, I am 100% against using glass, crystal, or earthenware. Instead of adding a few extra chairs to the activity center (or whatever that adjacent building is that dwarfs some of the parishes in my area), a parish or parishoner should spend that money to purchase the proper vessels. Better yet, have a separate collection during the Offertory. There will likely be enough to get a whole new set after one Sunday.
 
Glass chalices are nothing more than a promotion of horizontal worship. It has nothing to do with cost. In fact, if cost was such an issue there is no reason to be distributing the precious blood at all, except to facilitate the “active participation” of having busybodies prance around the altar.
 
During a funeral Mass for a much beloved priest, the archbishop who presided (and later got “promoted” to Cardinal) used a chalice made of Waterford Crystal that had belonged to the deceased priest. He even commented on his use of the crystal which he felt was more precious and valuable than gold. It was a few years ago, maybe before the GIRM? It was quite a Mass… Must have been 50 priests concelebrating and well over 1000 parishioners. It was really packed.

Seems to me there are worse “violations” … like the poor quality of preaching. Or the failure (refusal?) to teach Catholic “stuff”… They use the word “love” a hundred times, but never mention the Real Presence or John 6:20-70. Or the lives of the Saints. Or “trivial pursuit” questions / issues [such as … how many psalms are there? And who wrote them? And where does the expression “Son of Man” first appear in “the Bible” (aka Sacred Scripture) and what is the Hebrew text for “Son of Man”?

[Don’t get me started.]

at least they’ve stopped the use of paper cups! – which i have not seen but have heard of
 
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Desert_82:
Glass chalices are nothing more than a promotion of horizontal worship. It has nothing to do with cost. In fact, if cost was such an issue there is no reason to be distributing the precious blood at all, except to facilitate the “active participation” of having busybodies prance around the altar.
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How do glass chalices (which shouldn’t be used) promote horizontal worship? Did Our Lord not give Both Species? Didn’t the ancient Church rec. both Species? I imagine people were no more or less clumsy then than they are now. I agree with you about the “busy bodies” prancing around the altar, but there is still no good cause to refuse the Chalice, barring a bishop being concerned about flu season and then only for a time.
 
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msproule:
I have looked into this recently, and the cheapest precious metal chalices available were at least $500. But then again, they were very artistic and not in any way “plain”.

Still, rather than cost, the tiebreaker is the fragility of glass, crystal, and earthenware. Unfortunately, this criteria still leaves something to be desired; If one were to drop the sacred vessel containing the Precious Blood, there will be spillage whether the vessel breaks or stays intact.
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Actually, the “tie breader” is the General** Instructions** of the Roman Missal (GIRM), which have been in operation since first a Roman Missal was published - not just since 1983.

As Catholics, we are called to be obedient to the Church. The Church requires vessels of precious metal, not glass (and Waterford Crystal is still glass, despite being more beautiful than regular glass).

Why can’t we do what the Church requires without all quibbling? It is so self-centered and childish. If the parish does not have proper vessels, then BUY them. If the parish is so poor that they cannot afford $500.00 or more, then something is wrong with the level of giving from the parishioners. But, something can still be done - the priest can appeal for donations, the parishioners can organize a fund-raising event… Just do it!
 
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