Priest using wrong altar cloths and vestment colors

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Okay, I’m gonna get this back on track now.

I recently got back from college, and I went to my home parish on Sunday for Mass. Unfortunately, the priest’s vestments are now blue. Not bluish-purple, or even blue with the slightest tint of violet, but it is a deep and dark blue. The vestments are beautiful, however. I would still prefer the proper color, violet.

I think blue is allowed for the Immaculate Conception in some dioceses of Spain, Mexico, and South America. Blue is not allowed at all in the United States. I think Anglicans might permit blue. Except we are not Anglicans.

I am now wondering this: Where are these priests getting the blue vestments? A Catholic Supply Store (I’m not sure that’s what they call them) shouldn’t offer blue vestments, as these are not allowed. So the priest must go out of his way to find blue vestments, perhaps through the Episcopal church.
 
hamburglar said:
I am now wondering this: Where are these priests getting the blue vestments? A Catholic Supply Store (I’m not sure that’s what they call them) shouldn’t offer blue vestments, as these are not allowed.
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When I Google “vestments Catholic” the first commercial site is this one. As you see, you can get perfectly acceptable vestments even though they also sell to Episcopalians. But because they sell to Episcopalians, they also have blue. Even for companies that sell strictly to Catholics, they doubtless get orders from Mexico, etc, and from priests who will visit such countries. I also notice from this site that blue may be acceptable in some of the Eastern Churches, although I’m not sure whether a Western chasuble would cut it or not. The point is, it’s not the job of the company to interrogate the cleric about whether he intends to follow Church rules on color.
 
hamburglar said:
Okay, I’m gonna get this back on track now.

I am now wondering this: Where are these priests getting the blue vestments? A Catholic Supply Store (I’m not sure that’s what they call them) shouldn’t offer blue vestments, as these are not allowed. So the priest must go out of his way to find blue vestments, perhaps through the Episcopal church.
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I’ve yet to deal with a “Catholic” supply store. I deal with & am well served by religious supply stores that have everything a Catholic parish needs but Catholics aren’t their only customers so they also have everything a non-Catholic parish need. So they sell intinction sets alongside ‘communion sets’ that feature separate little glasses; purple vestments alongside blue vestments; crucifixes alongside plain, unadorned crosses.
 
Digitonomy said:
I also notice from this site that blue may be acceptable in some of the Eastern Churches, although I’m not sure whether a Western chasuble would cut it or not. The point is, it’s not the job of the company to interrogate the cleric about whether he intends to follow Church rules on color.
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In Eastern Churches, blue is used for feasts of the Theotokos (Mary)

Eastern Vestments are quite different Western ones, so a blue Eastern Vestment would not work in the Western Church.
 
Jean_Anthony said:
This thread has gone off topic. Please take any side issues to new or existing threads. Remember each thread is for those who wish to post about the original topic. I will have to close the thread if it doesn’t get back on track.
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Question:

Does anyone have a “jpg” or “gif” of the OFFICIAL colors of the liturgical year as “legal” in the US for 2008 authorized by the Vatican?

My “LTP” liturgical calendar shows advent as a “bluish violet-like” color, which my parish roughly approximates.

I’m being “charitable” and seeing our parish color as “purple-violet-ish” so as not to see it as “blue”.

An actual “visual” of the allowable colors would SEEM to be an easy thing to give us! 🙂

Thanks.
 
I don’t think that people are greatly troubled by this matter. The number of posts simply indicates that people are interested in the question. It is true that some things are more important, but still the matter has some importance.
This might be like someone disrespecting a person’s mother in some minor way. No one would think this a grave sin, but it would have at least some importance to most people.
Roy5 said:
DO ALTAR COLORS REALLY MATTER?
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 I guess I'm out of step, but I find concern over altar colors #722on my list of priorities. I confess to becoming annoyed when clergy or laity make a big deal out of colors, vestments, and such incidentals. Did Jesus ever provide instructions about these things? I have the impression that they were of little concern to him. He denounced the religious establishment at the time for just such emphasis. 

  Okay, so have the right color and wear the right vestment if not a problem, but don't make a big deal about such trivial things. Millions go hungry, millions more are poorly dressed, millions have shacks as homes - and we worry about proper colors, fancy vestments, and beautiful sanctuaries. What is wrong with this picture?
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CalmDownWisWins said:
Question:

Does anyone have a “jpg” or “gif” of the OFFICIAL colors of the liturgical year as “legal” in the US for 2008 authorized by the Vatican?

My “LTP” liturgical calendar shows advent as a “bluish violet-like” color, which my parish roughly approximates.

I’m being “charitable” and seeing our parish color as “purple-violet-ish” so as not to see it as “blue”.

An actual “visual” of the allowable colors would SEEM to be an easy thing to give us! 🙂

Thanks.
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I have seen posters around that say 2008 is the year of grace. I also found a website, and it displays the posters, like the one you linked to.

yearofgrace.com/
 
CalmDownWisWins said:
Does anyone have a “jpg” or “gif” of the OFFICIAL colors of the liturgical year as “legal” in the US for 2008 authorized by the Vatican?
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There are technical ways to define colors, either by the wavelength of light, or using a reference book with pages and pages of numbered color swatches. This type of thing has only really come about in the last century or so, as the need for precision in various fields has become more acute.

The Church, on the other hand, has a rich tradition of liturgical colors and liturgical instruction. However, this tradition is preserved in its practice and in writing - I seriously doubt you’ll find any reference swatches as to what constitutes purple or green.

Furthermore, it’s not desirable IMO that everyone in the Latin Church uses the same shade or hue of purple. Some of the beauty of vestments is the interaction of different colors within the fabric. For instance, one way to produce purple cloth is to weave red vertically and blue horizontally. This produces a good solid purple when viewed straight-on, but where the fabric curves or billows there will be more of a red or blue effect, depending on which angle you are viewing it from. I couldn’t find any good pictures on short notice, but here’s a different piece of clothing - (not for liturgical use) which used burgundy/gold crossweave, to give you an idea what I mean. It’s not really burgundy, and it’s not really gold. If your two colors were red and blue, the overall look would be purple - especially if you use purplish red and blue.

Similarly you can have lots of vertical purple stripes mixed with a few vertical blue or red or black etc, or several shades of purple together to give a richer texture. Same with more complex patterns within an overall purple fabric. It would be rather dull if everyone used exactly the same shade of flat purple without any texture or highlights deviating from it.
 
I happened to notice that the priest offering Mass on EWTN on Sunday (12/16) seemed to be wearing blue. Perhaps my tint was off, but everything else seem to be the proper hue. Is it possible that what some perceive as blue was a different shade of purple?
 
Vestments are expensive, I can see where if the church used the blues last year why they are using the same this year.

But, I’d like to know how they got them in the first place.

Why would a Catholic supply house even carry vestments in blue, which is not a recognized liturgical color?
 
Kielbasi said:
But, I’d like to know how they got them in the first place.
Why would a Catholic supply house even carry vestments in blue, which is not a recognized liturgical color?
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See post #58 for my take on it.
 
Kielbasi said:
Vestments are expensive, I can see where if the church used the blues last year why they are using the same this year.
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Exactly, Considering that the color for Advent is the same one as the color for Lent, why did they go and spend good parish money on different vestments when they can just where the same ones as Lent?
 
hamburglar said:
Okay, look at this image. It is a poster from a Catholic company. I’ve seen this in our Parish classrooms. I’m so confused now…

Its a poster put out by a private company, done by a private artist.

Consider it to be bad art, not a statement of Church teaching.
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Thank you, Volodymyr 988 for the photo of the Pope in blue vestments. Now the question is: To whom do we write to correct this liturgical abuse? I don’t have God’s e-mail address or phone number, so what recourse do I have?

In times past before color-fast dyes the color of a purple garment would generally fade over time to a bluish color. You can’t regulate away natural events.

Matthew
 
But is it a liturigical abuse? It may be allowed in that time and place. We know the situation in the United States well, but the situation throughout the world not as much.
 
Roy5 said:
What have colors on the altar and vestments to do with giving God proper respect? That can be a serious fault of ‘religion’. Where in the prophets do we read that God doesn’t give a hoot about our elaborate ceremonies, “but let justice roll down like waters and righteousness as a mighty stream!”?
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  It's true that in the Old Testament there are all sorts of instructions about Temple worship. But Jesus was mute on the subject except for his denunciations of Pharisees and Saduccees who insisted on ritualistic details.

  Frankly, I've come to the point where I'd rather spend an hour in a simple Quaker meetinghouse than in a gilded church sanctuary, with all of its images and stained glass, where pious ritual is paramount. There is something blasphemous about repetitive, ornate and formalized liturgy.
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God Bless you. I agree with you! Now their making up more rules on how to pray…“Fallow me my yoke is NOT heavy or burdensome” Jesus talk us the Art Father, not to dp repeated works, but simply talk to him like Jesus did at the last supper! Jesus praise, gave thanks, told his Father of what he accomplish, asked etc. Prayer is a conversation with Jesus. Talk to him he is listenning, invite him into every moment of you like. Just talk to him!!

Jesus show us this at the Last Supper, Jesus did not prayer to Moses, his mother he spoke to the Father and our Dear Blessed Mother was happy!!
God Bless
 
planter654 said:
God Bless you. I agree with you! Now they are making up more rules on how to pray…“Fallow me my yoke is NOT heavy or burdensome”

Jesus taught us the “Art Father” and not to repeat words, but simply talk to him. Like Jesus did at the Last Supper! Jesus praise God, gave thanks, told his Father of what he accomplish, Jesus asked him for help for the Apostles etc. Prayer is a conversation with Jesus. Talk to him he is listenning, invite him into our daily lives, every moment of your live. Just talk to him!! Tell him, ask, thank Him, ask what to do, where to go, teach me etc. Do not ignore him or turn your back to him. Jesus is King of Kings Lord of Lords yet he humbled himself to us, go to him and humble yourselve, he knows how little we are.

Jesus showed us this, at the Last Supper, Jesus did not pray calling on the name of Moses or his Dear Sweet Mother, Jesus address and spoke to his Father and his, our Dear Blessed Mother also was happy!!

Our Dear Mother Mary saw the agony of death her son suffered and yourself also. Why? Why? would we bring more sorrow to our Dear Mother and not go to her son… directly and go through someone else? In the we are all “ONE”

God Bless
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Brendan said:
hamburglar;3107005:
Okay, look at this image. It is a poster from a Catholic company. I’ve seen this in our Parish classrooms. I’m so confused now…

Its a poster put out by a private company, done by a private artist.

Consider it to be bad art, not a statement of Church teaching.
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I wasn’t saying it was correct, I just thought it was interesting that a Catholic publishing company would actually publish this. Hopefully the kids don’t think that Advent is blue.
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Brendan said:
hamburglar;3107005:
Okay, look at this image. It is a poster from a Catholic company. I’ve seen this in our Parish classrooms. I’m so confused now…

Its a poster put out by a private company, done by a private artist.

Consider it to be bad art, not a statement of Church teaching.
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Please such nonsense, private artist, not Church teaching?
God Bless
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