Priest voted pro-abortion, and seems proud of it

[bankerdavid]

My pastor (should I say ex-pastor?) proudly voted for the pro-abortion candidate in the recent presidential candidate. He may not have voted for him because he was pro-abort, but he considers the war more important, and does not like the current president.

Anyway, my reaction was to write the bishop, write the priest, and resign from the parish to find another.

So many in the parish seem lethargic about this, though they know the priest is leading them the wrong way.

It’s actually a good thing, because I’ve already found a new family, a more solemn parish, and some great people.

I’m disappointed that so many Catholics voted pro-abortion (whether or not they voted for that candidate because he was pro-abortion), but extremely disappointed that someone who supposedly guides the sheep of his flock knowingly guides them the wrong way.

40 million abortions has got to be the greatest evil in the history of mankind. Imagine, the population of Canada wiped off the face of the earth?

 

[bpbasilphx]

While I voted for McCain, he’s not that much pro-lifem either. He doesn’t think Roe should be overturned by either judicial or legislative act.

 

[tjfoster62]

Almost 100 bishops signed a letter clearly warning against voting for the pro abortion candidate. McCain may not have been perfect but he was not proabortion like our new President elect. I think we have to pray and stay alert. I would go to another parish so you can worship in peace.
We as civilians should not know all of the reasons why we went to war and I am glad that our country was not attacked again.

 

[dg5887]

It is really upsetting to hear that a priest, someone you really respect and are expected to follow, to do something contrary to the true teachings of the church. I was in the Marine Corps on a plane getting ready to go to Iraq and just happened to be sitting next to a Nun. We started having a conversation and she actually told me that the war was unjust and that I should run away to Canada and even face being thrown in the brig. I was shocked. I wish that the clergy would not get into politics and just follow the teachings of the Church.

 

[MarieVeronica]

The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) states:

"All citizens and all governments are obliged to work for the avoidance of war.

However, “as long as the danger of war persists and there is no international authority with the necessary competence and power, governments cannot be denied the right of lawful self-defense, once all peace efforts have failed.” (2308)

Well… with this present “war on terror”… isn’t that what we’ve been doing in the United States? Defending ourselves from further attacks? Remember… the Two Towers, which were brought down in great clouds of smoke. 2,752 people died in that attack. Not including those who died in Washington (Pentagon) and Flight 93 in a Pennsylvania field.

I can’t comment on how the “war on terror” has been carried out. I don’t know if all the decisions made over the past 8 years, have been “Just”. But, it seems that the root reason for this war has been “Just”.

Do we want “the war on terror” to END peacefully, and never happen again? Certainly! Lord, PLEASE grant us world peace! Is the incoming Administration going to assure that? Mmmm… I have serious doubts that they will be able to.

At any rate… I don’t think it was reason enough for any believing Catholic to vote as your Pastor did. I will pray for him.

There is another “war” being waged. It is an UNJUST war called ABORTION.

 

[tjfoster62]

The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) states:

"All citizens and all governments are obliged to work for the avoidance of war.

However, “as long as the danger of war persists and there is no international authority with the necessary competence and power, governments cannot be denied the right of lawful self-defense, once all peace efforts have failed.” (2308)

Well… with this present “war on terror”… isn’t that what we’ve been doing in the United States? Defending ourselves from further attacks? Remember… the Two Towers, which were brought down in great clouds of smoke. 2,752 people died in that attack. Not including those who died in Washington (Pentagon) and Flight 93 in a Pennsylvania field.

I can’t comment on how the “war on terror” has been carried out. I don’t know if all the decisions made over the past 8 years, have been “Just”. But, it seems that the root reason for this war has been “Just”.

Do we want “the war on terror” to END peacefully, and never happen again? Certainly! Lord, PLEASE grant us world peace! Is the incoming Administration going to assure that? Mmmm… I have serious doubts that they will be able to.

At any rate… I don’t think it was reason enough for any believing Catholic to vote as your Pastor did. I will pray for him.

There is another “war” being waged. It is an UNJUST war called ABORTION.

Well said-God Bless America!!!

 

[Soterion]

The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) states:

"All citizens and all governments are obliged to work for the avoidance of war.

However, “as long as the danger of war persists and there is no international authority with the necessary competence and power, governments cannot be denied the right of lawful self-defense, once all peace efforts have failed.” (2308)

Well… with this present “war on terror”… isn’t that what we’ve been doing in the United States? Defending ourselves from further attacks? Remember… the Two Towers, which were brought down in great clouds of smoke. 2,752 people died in that attack. Not including those who died in Washington (Pentagon) and Flight 93 in a Pennsylvania field.

I can’t comment on how the “war on terror” has been carried out. I don’t know if all the decisions made over the past 8 years, have been “Just”. But, it seems that the root reason for this war has been “Just”.

Do we want “the war on terror” to END peacefully, and never happen again? Certainly! Lord, PLEASE grant us world peace! Is the incoming Administration going to assure that? Mmmm… I have serious doubts that they will be able to.

At any rate… I don’t think it was reason enough for any believing Catholic to vote as your Pastor did. I will pray for him.

There is another “war” being waged. It is an UNJUST war called ABORTION.

Though of course we as a country should seek to defend ourselves from attack, more and more people seem to have come to the conclusion that the so-called “war on terror” has little to do with this. That doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t support the soldiers who go over there. The idea that one cannot “support the troops” unless one also believes this “war” to be a just one is completely asinine, IMO. Of course I support good people who put their lives on the line to do what they think is right. At the same time, there are very strong indications that the real reason we went over there was to intentionally destroy the Iraqi infrastructure in order to hand out rebuilding contracts to **** Cheney’s business pals.
There is something very unfortunate about American politics. Over the last 20 years or so, it seems as if the Republican party has cornered the market on Christianity and patriotism. That is to say, there is no longer any such thing as a conservative Democrat. Many ex-Democrats, my step-father among them, have switched to the Republican party because they feel this party is more in line with their own moral code.
But, if you take a look at both parties, the real fact is that BOTH of them are in many ways anti-Biblical. Yes, the Democrats tend to favor same-sex marriage and abortion. On the other hand, they also favor helping out the poor. Last time I checked, Jesus wasn’t the biggest fan of the sort of selfish corporate big-wigs who are favored by Republican economic policies.
Just because the Republicans pay lip service to the Bible doesn’t mean they follow its teachings. I feel as if we’ve had 8 years of blunder after blunder at the hands of a guy who is in essence a glorified frat boy who would probably be working at Home Depot were it not for the fact that he has a rich daddy. Let’s give the other guy a chance. Maybe he is more in favor of killing unborn babies. But, on the other hand, he seems less in favor of killing people who are already born, something Bush and Cheney don’t seem to have such an issue with.

 

[Andruschak]

Perhaps you might ask the moderator to move this thread to the POLITICS:2008 forum?

 

[MarieVeronica]

Though of course we as a country should seek to defend ourselves from attack, more and more people seem to have come to the conclusion that the so-called “war on terror” has little to do with this. That doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t support the soldiers who go over there. The idea that one cannot “support the troops” unless one also believes this “war” to be a just one is completely asinine, IMO. Of course I support good people who put their lives on the line to do what they think is right. At the same time, there are very strong indications that the real reason we went over there was to intentionally destroy the Iraqi infrastructure in order to hand out rebuilding contracts to **** Cheney’s business pals.
There is something very unfortunate about American politics. Over the last 20 years or so, it seems as if the Republican party has cornered the market on Christianity and patriotism. That is to say, there is no longer any such thing as a conservative Democrat. Many ex-Democrats, my step-father among them, have switched to the Republican party because they feel this party is more in line with their own moral code.
But, if you take a look at both parties, the real fact is that BOTH of them are in many ways anti-Biblical. Yes, the Democrats tend to favor same-sex marriage and abortion. On the other hand, they also favor helping out the poor. Last time I checked, Jesus wasn’t the biggest fan of the sort of selfish corporate big-wigs who are favored by Republican economic policies.
Just because the Republicans pay lip service to the Bible doesn’t mean they follow its teachings. I feel as if we’ve had 8 years of blunder after blunder at the hands of a guy who is in essence a glorified frat boy who would probably be working at Home Depot were it not for the fact that he has a rich daddy. Let’s give the other guy a chance. Maybe he is more in favor of killing unborn babies. But, on the other hand, he seems less in favor of killing people who are already born, something Bush and Cheney don’t seem to have such an issue with.

You bring forth some valid points. Although, not all of them seem quite fair. “Republicans pay lip service to the Bible”. That is a very broad statement. There are some very, very devout God fearing people in Washington. Sadly, at the moment… they seem to be in the minority. And there are others, which you should provide proof for (i.e. VP Cheney, etc.).

However, I will never be able to justify giving “the other guy a chance”… so long as he doesn’t give “a chance” to the most innocent and helpless among us… the UNBORN.

If we, as God fearing people… Jews, Christians, Muslims… whatever… do not speak up for the Unborn… who will?

P.S. Maybe this would be more appropriate to the “Politics 2008” Forum.

 

[tjfoster62]

Though of course we as a country should seek to defend ourselves from attack, more and more people seem to have come to the conclusion that the so-called “war on terror” has little to do with this. That doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t support the soldiers who go over there. The idea that one cannot “support the troops” unless one also believes this “war” to be a just one is completely asinine, IMO. Of course I support good people who put their lives on the line to do what they think is right. At the same time, there are very strong indications that the real reason we went over there was to intentionally destroy the Iraqi infrastructure in order to hand out rebuilding contracts to **** Cheney’s business pals.
There is something very unfortunate about American politics. Over the last 20 years or so, it seems as if the Republican party has cornered the market on Christianity and patriotism. That is to say, there is no longer any such thing as a conservative Democrat. Many ex-Democrats, my step-father among them, have switched to the Republican party because they feel this party is more in line with their own moral code.
But, if you take a look at both parties, the real fact is that BOTH of them are in many ways anti-Biblical. Yes, the Democrats tend to favor same-sex marriage and abortion. On the other hand, they also favor helping out the poor. Last time I checked, Jesus wasn’t the biggest fan of the sort of selfish corporate big-wigs who are favored by Republican economic policies.
Just because the Republicans pay lip service to the Bible doesn’t mean they follow its teachings. I feel as if we’ve had 8 years of blunder after blunder at the hands of a guy who is in essence a glorified frat boy who would probably be working at Home Depot were it not for the fact that he has a rich daddy. Let’s give the other guy a chance. Maybe he is more in favor of killing unborn babies. But, on the other hand, he seems less in favor of killing people who are already born, something Bush and Cheney don’t seem to have such an issue with.

The 80 US Bishops who urged people to vote for the prolife candidate do not agree.
Provide proof that this whole war was waged to benefit the current Vice President. It sounds like a contrived story to me. I also would like to inform you that children in the womb are very much alive and President Bush at least was able to keep the restrictions on abortion that our new President has vowed to overturn.

 

[Soterion]

You bring forth some valid points. Although, not all of them seem quite fair. “Republicans pay lip service to the Bible”. There are some very, very devout God fearing people in Washington. Sadly, at the moment… they are in the minority.

However, I will never be able to justify giving “the other guy a chance”… so long as he doesn’t give “a chance” to the most innocent and helpless among us… the UNBORN.

If we, as God fearing people… Jews, Christians, Muslims… whatever… do not speak up for the Unborn… who will?

P.S. Maybe this would be more appropriate to the “Politics 2008” Forum.

We each have our ‘list of priorities’ in terms of political issues, and I can completely understand why abortion is so high on your own. When we vote or take a stand for or against any candidate, we must be true to ourselves.
And yes, I am sure that there are some genuine people in Washington…though, as you say, in the minority ; )

 

[MarieVeronica]

We each have our ‘list of priorities’ in terms of political issues, and I can completely understand why abortion is so high on your own. When we vote or take a stand for or against any candidate, we must be true to ourselves.
And yes, I am sure that there are some genuine people in Washington…though, as you say, in the minority ; )

Well, maybe that is a difference between us, friend. The Right to Life is not a “political issue”. It is THE ISSUE. The foundational issue on which all other issues rest.

Just for the record, I’m not seeking to be “true to myself”. But true to my Lord, Jesus Christ. From Him, our Creator… comes Life. How can anyone dare to support the willful destruction of His Gift?

I can not fathom. May God bless.

 

[Soterion]

The 80 US Bishops who urged people to vote for the prolife candidate do not agree.
Provide proof that this whole war was waged to benefit the current Vice President. It sounds like a contrived story to me. I also would like to inform you that children in the womb are very much alive and President Bush at least was able to keep the restrictions on abortion that our new President has vowed to overturn.

It’s not a contrived story. Give me until Wednesday night, and I shall post some interesting and factual (i.e.: stuff that you can check for yourself) information.
So far as Bush and abortion go, I’m sorry, but I can’t get behind the idea that abortion is always the wrong choice. Nor, working in the medical field, can I get behind his (IMO) ridiculous opposition to stem cell research. These stem cells don’t have to be obtained from aborted fetuses. The whole anti-stem cell research movement seems more rooted in the fear that abortions will actually be encouraged in order to obtain stem cells. Following that logic, don’t volunteer to be an organ donor because if you do, doctors will intentionally kill you if you get in an accident in order to extract your organs.

But all of this aside, I can completely understand why many people have such strong feelings about abortion. On the other hand (as I hope I’m showing), I do feel that it’s not unacceptable for a Priest to vote for Obama.

 

[Soterion]

Just for the record, I’m not seeking to be “true to myself”. But true to my Lord, Jesus Christ. From Him, our Creator… comes Life. How can anyone dare to support the willful destruction of His Gift?

Yes, but there are many Christians who did vote for Obama. I imagine they felt he was the lesser of two evils, much as many other Christians voted for McCain for the same reason. Wouldn’t most of these voters say they were being true to Jesus?
Based not only this issue, but many other issues, as well as the fact that there are who knows how many different Christian denominations, it is clear that different people try to stay true to Jesus in very different ways! At some point, the “self” must enter into the picture and decide, for instance, “Being anti-abortion is more important than being pro-war”…or whatever the issue under consideration is.
Abortion is, of course, a very, very touchy topic! Know that, in discussing it with you, I mean no disrespect…though I’d imagine certain of my views are rather repugnant to you!

 

[elizabeth22]

Our priest voted against life, I am so disappointed. Our bishop is liberal as well, he made a comment that now there is the possibility of a black pope in the near future. Seems he is more concerned with the ethnic makeup of a new pope than with the fact that this election veered away from what is really important, the sanctity of life. I think many priests and bishops have ignored the teachings that were sent from the Vatican, that life is always the supreme issue. I am praying that the Holy Spirit will lead our priest in a direction that is pleasing to God. Our priest was pretty outspoken about his voting choice, I really think he is so against the war on terror, that it has clouded his vision. Several families have already left our parish looking for a more conservative priest, we may soon follow although it will be a hard decision.

 

[thistle]

My pastor (should I say ex-pastor?) proudly voted for the pro-abortion candidate in the recent presidential candidate. He may not have voted for him because he was pro-abort, but he considers the war more important, and does not like the current president.

Anyway, my reaction was to write the bishop, write the priest, and resign from the parish to find another.

So many in the parish seem lethargic about this, though they know the priest is leading them the wrong way.

It’s actually a good thing, because I’ve already found a new family, a more solemn parish, and some great people.

I’m disappointed that so many Catholics voted pro-abortion (whether or not they voted for that candidate because he was pro-abortion), but extremely disappointed that someone who supposedly guides the sheep of his flock knowingly guides them the wrong way.

40 million abortions has got to be the greatest evil in the history of mankind. Imagine, the population of Canada wiped off the face of the earth?

Why would you think he voted for pro-abortion just because he voted for Obama?
There were 2 candidates.
On the abortion issue one was pro-life (that’s good) but all his other policies would lead to an even worse situation for the country, society and the individual. The other is pro-abortion (that’s bad) but all his other policies will lead to the betterment of the country, society and the individual.
It seems a no brainer that you should vote for Obama. You have to take ALL the issues and policies into account. You cannot simply look at one (no matter how bad that one is). You have to look at the whole and then make a decision.

 

[elizabeth22]

With all due respect thistle, you’re not in line with the teachings of the church on this one. The guidance put out from the Vatican is that there are many issues to be considered, however life is always the most important issue in any election. If there are two candidates that are not completely pro life, then you pick the candidate that would do the least harm. Obama is on the record as voting against the ban on partial birth abortion, and I’ve read that when he gets in the White House he will sign the Freedom of Choice Act. In my book, the president elect doesn’t show the Christian principles that I believe are pleasing to God.
As Father Jonathan at the Vatican said, “If you knowingly vote for a candidate that supports abortion, then you become party to that act. You cannot do it.” (paraphrased)

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

With all due respect thistle, you’re not in line with the teachings of the church on this one. The guidance put out from the Vatican is that there are many issues to be considered, however life is always the most important issue in any election. If there are two candidates that are not completely pro life, then you pick the candidate that would do the least harm. Obama is on the record as voting against the ban on partial birth abortion, and I’ve read that when he gets in the White House he will sign the Freedom of Choice Act. In my book, the president elect doesn’t show the Christian principles that I believe are pleasing to God.
As Father Jonathan at the Vatican said, “If you knowingly vote for a candidate that supports abortion, then you become party to that act. You cannot do it.” (paraphrased)

The English & Welsh bishops say otherwise in “The Common Good” (published 1996) - & they have not changed their teaching: they discourage single-issue voting, quite rightly, for the reasons the OP gives. I’ll take bishops over any priest or laity. If they are teaching falsely - why is the Pope doing nothing to correct them ? Could it not be that they do not need to be corrected ? But if they don’t, those who say one cannot vote for candidates who hold the views of the President-elect don’t have a leg to stand on: they are abusing the moral doctrine of the Church by making it into a political weapon. And that is appalling. ​

I wonder how Fr. Jonathan would vote in an election in the UK - for if we all adopted his position, a lot of us would have no candidate to vote for. Abortion is a wrong, but it is neither the only nor the greatest of wrongs - the worst of the seven deadly sins is pride, not abortion: which is not even one of the seven. The Church really ought to be concerned about other things too, instead of being fixated on abortion all the time.

If it’s so pro-life, why does it rub shoulders with murdering scum like Robert Mugabe ? Yet there he was, in Rome, in 2005. Actions speak louder than words, & the Papacy’s lack of discomfort at his presence speaks volumes about its moral priorities: fail to be opposed to abortion, & lose the Eucharist - starve & torture millions, & receive it. Is*** that*** the message the Church wants to send ? This fixation on abortion reeks of double standards. And that could so easily be resolved - by requiring that the born should be receive as much attention as the unborn. But this would interfere with voting Republican, &, even worse, with the American Way.

 

[onaquest]

Almost 100 bishops signed a letter clearly warning against voting for the pro abortion candidate. McCain may not have been perfect but he was not proabortion like our new President elect. I think we have to pray and stay alert. I would go to another parish so you can worship in peace.
We as civilians should not know all of the reasons why we went to war and I am glad that our country was not attacked again.

Barack Obama is not a proabortion man. I will face God at the end of my life and all the aborted babies during Barack Obama’s term and answer to to them why I voted for him.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Almost 100 bishops signed a letter clearly warning against voting for the pro abortion candidate. McCain may not have been perfect but he was not proabortion like our new President elect. I think we have to pray and stay alert. I would go to another parish so you can worship in peace.
We as civilians should not know all of the reasons why we went to war and I am glad that our country was not attacked again.

So what were the rest of the bishops doing ? If abortion is so unspeakably evil, why did they not all sign ? If they were negligent, what does that say about Papal permission for their ordination to the episcopate ? ​

Maybe it is not quite the sin of sins that some people seem to think; in the 1570s, the sin of sins was not abortion at all, but sodomy. Which very strongly suggests that the present day hullaballoo about the supreme dreadfulness of abortion owes more to fashion than to sound doctrine.