Priest wouldn't give dispensation...caused all sorts of trouble!

[retire_early]

Dear TryingHard:

Hope you are feeling OK. That last few weeks of your pregancy! Wow,so hard, and with other little ones to care for, too. AND, a new place to live. So much to deal with! Here’s a hug: :hug3:

Jesus saw what you did for Him. Jesus saw what you endured for Him. He loves you so much. What was meant to be, happened. Be grateful for that opportunity that allowed you do offer up a little penance for Him. He will never give you what you cannot stand…just trust in Him.

“O Sacred Heart of Jesus, I place my trust in You!”

Blessings on your growing family!

 

[MamaJewel]

I’m sure the priest meant well.

And I think it’s commendable that you go to Mass being 8 months pregnant and with 3 and 5 year old children in tow. My understanding is that St. Therese the Little Flower didn’t begin attending Mass until she was four years old. So you probably could apply the legalism of the Church and say that in your delicate condition as a caregiver to a 3 year old, you don’t have a Mass obligation to fulfill.

That said, you made an honest effort to attend Mass. It was an honest mistake that you were late. Friends in town or not, your efforts were genuine and you didn’t have an obligation to attend any later Mass, so you didn’t really have to as the priest for a dispensation.

When we have little children, we serve Our Father by meeting their needs. It is a burden on the wee little one to be expected to sit through a Mass in a foreign language or have to the schedule interruptions of a late Mass. (And I’m speaking from the experience of a mom whose oldest children were baptized at ages 11 mos, 2 yrs, and 4 yrs old during an anniversary Mass that was in a foreign language. My four year old was quite overwhelmed and flustered, but fortunately she was surrounded by loving family since the Mass was in honor of her great-grandparents 50th anniversary,)

As a mom of 8, I used to express the same concerns as you. Looking back, I wish that I hadn’t deferred so much of my God-given parental authority to men (priests) who too often lacked the understanding or wisdom to properly guide my family in some situations.

I hate to have to say this, and I wish that there had been an older mom to advise me at the time, but sometimes it’s best to test the proverbial waters before diving in. What I mean is that it’s best to observe the personalities and methodologies of priests, deacons, church leaders and parishioners in positions of authority at a new or unfamiliar parish. Once you’ve established that those in leadership are in line with Church teaching and properly dispositioned, then it’s okay to look to them for spiritual guidance.

And I truly and humbly mean this with almost 19 years of experience as a convert to the Faith, who also has been fortunate to receive wise counsel at times from Christians like the ones in the picture above.

God knows the intentions of our hearts.

Peace.

 

[Blessedwithfive]

I’m sure the priest meant well.

And I think it’s commendable that you go to Mass being 8 months pregnant and with 3 and 5 year old children in tow. My understanding is that St. Therese the Little Flower didn’t begin attending Mass until she was four years old. So you probably could apply the legalism of the Church and say that in your delicate condition as a caregiver to a 3 year old, you don’t have a Mass obligation to fulfill.

That said, you made an honest effort to attend Mass. It was an honest mistake that you were late. Friends in town or not, your efforts were genuine and you didn’t have an obligation to attend any later Mass, so you didn’t really have to as the priest for a dispensation.

When we have little children, we serve Our Father by meeting their needs. It is a burden on the wee little one to be expected to sit through a Mass in a foreign language or have to the schedule interruptions of a late Mass. (And I’m speaking from the experience of a mom whose oldest children were baptized at ages 11 mos, 2 yrs, and 4 yrs old during an anniversary Mass that was in a foreign language. My four year old was quite overwhelmed and flustered, but fortunately she was surrounded by loving family since the Mass was in honor of her great-grandparents 50th anniversary,)

As a mom of 8, I used to express the same concerns as you. Looking back, I wish that I hadn’t deferred so much of my God-given parental authority to men (priests) who too often lacked the understanding or wisdom to properly guide my family in some situations.

I hate to have to say this, and I wish that there had been an older mom to advise me at the time, but sometimes it’s best to test the proverbial waters before diving in. What I mean is that it’s best to observe the personalities and methodologies of priests, deacons, church leaders and parishioners in positions of authority at a new or unfamiliar parish. Once you’ve established that those in leadership are in line with Church teaching and properly dispositioned, then it’s okay to look to them for spiritual guidance.

And I truly and humbly mean this with almost 19 years of experience as a convert to the Faith, who also has been fortunate to receive wise counsel at times from Christians like the ones in the picture above.

God knows the intentions of our hearts.

Peace.

Wow…this is the nicest post I have EVER read here on any topic. I love the part about the priest simply dosen’t understand… So true. Prayers for all.

 

[1ke]

Wow…this is the nicest post I have EVER read here on any topic. I love the part about the priest simply dosen’t understand… So true. Prayers for all.

I don’t find anything *nice *in the assumptions so many are making about the *priest *in this situation.

WE DO NOT have facts to draw any conclusions, including such comments that the priest “doesn’t understand”.

 

[Gorgias]

The first thing, I think, that anyone reading the OP’s post has to admit is that she really is trying hard – moreso than most would, I’d bet. Talk about going “above and beyond”, as compared to most!

That being said, one must ask the question: did TryingHard ask a question (that had the possibility of two distinct answers) or was she simply giving lip service to a formality, with the expectation that there was really only one possible answer to be had? Given the OP’s reaction to the priest’s reply, it seems like it was more the latter than the former.

But, a dispensation is at the discretion of the pastor; it’s not something to which a person is entitled. If the OP was asking the question in good faith, then the fact of not getting the answer she expected might have been frustrating/annoying/disappointing… but wasn’t a failure on the part of the confessor.

twf:

That being said, I was under the impression that only one’s canonical pastor (the pastor of one’s geographical parish) could grant such a dispensation…not just whichever priest happens to be in the confessional.

This is correct. The ability to grant a dispensation from the obligation to assist at Mass falls to the pastor only.

Given the way that TryingHard relates the story – that the priest said “I cannot give you a dispensation”, and not “I won’t give you a dispensation” – it’s possible that the priest wasn’t the pastor there, and he was simply acting properly, rather than unpastorally. The priest was hearing confessions between Masses and on a Sunday. Maybe we might give the guy the benefit of the doubt…

I never thought in a million years he would tell me I had to go regardless of having friends from out of town over that was planned in advance. I felt as if he was distracted or not really listening to my situation.

No – although you really were making an effort, you essentially told him that you were able but not inclined to fulfill your obligation. “I’ve got other plans that I prioritize above you” typically doesn’t get a favorable reaction from anyone, don’t you think?

TryingHard17:

Having chest pains? What is more important, your cardiologist or Jesus? Car doesn’t work and church is a 5 mile walk and you have to take a $20 can ride to church? What is more important? Money or Jesus?

The Church asks us to fulfill our obligation if we are able, but not to put ourselves at risk of harm. Chest pains? Go to the hospital. Car problems that make it impossible to get to Mass? Obligation goes away. Inconvenienced? Obligation remains.

I mean, we have to live our lives. We put in a good faith effort to fulfill our obligations, but sometimes it is very difficult to the point of causing significant inconvenience to others or to the point of simply being impractical

Somehow, I imagine that this was within the realm of possible reactions that Jesus might have expressed following the Last Supper – “Father, I’m trying to fulfill my obligation to you, but it’s pretty difficult, and definitely inconvenient.” Sure glad he didn’t…

That is where the merciful priest comes in and says “You tried to bring your family to mass, but you made a mistake. Read today’s mass readings, say some prayers and enjoy your dinner catching up with good friends.”

This is where a merciful priest has the opportunity, but not the requirement to release the obligation. You’re a mom – you know that some times, the right response is to hold your children to their responsibilities, even if all they did was ‘make an honest mistake’. In fact, it was a really good lesson (if a frustrating experience!) for your husband, who – as you told us – just wanted to bail. In the end, ya’ll did the right thing, even though it was inconvenient. Your 5-year-old and 3-year-old probably won’t remember this experience, but it’s exactly the kind of lesson about living up to one’s obligations that I’m sure you’re trying to teach them…

I try to imagine Pope Francis Or even Jesus telling me the same thing this priest did, and I honestly can’t!

Are you certain? True, Jesus’ response to people who were trying but making mistakes was “I do not condemn you”, but it wasn’t “don’t sweat it” – it was “go and sin no more”…

 

[Jon_S_1]

This man asked Jesus for a “dispensation” to bury his father…Jedus didn’t grant it.

Now when Jesus saw a crowd around Him, He gave orders to depart to the other side of the sea. Then a scribe came and said to Him, “Teacher, I will follow You wherever You go.” Jesus said to him, “The foxes have holes and the birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head.” Another of the disciples said to Him, “Lord, permit me first to go and bury my father.” But Jesus said to him, “Follow Me, and allow the dead to bury their own dead.” (‭Matthew‬ ‭8‬:‭18-22‬ NASB)

Food for thought.

 

[johnnyc176]

I don’t find anything *nice *in the assumptions so many are making about the *priest *in this situation.

WE DO NOT have facts to draw any conclusions, including such comments that the priest “doesn’t understand”.

I also fiind curious the advice that one shouldn’t have asked the priest in the first place. Must have some lawyers here that adhere to old adage…never ask a question you don’t know the answer to.

The priest was doing his job advising against sin. Sometimes we expect answers that conform to our will instead of God’s.

 

[TryingHard17]

Im not sure these Christians would find your situation “extraordinary”. Not sure why you didn’t want to go to mass at the later time.

https://syrianfreepress.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/06-12-2014mosul_iraq.jpg

We met our friends of 30 years tonight for dinner whom we haven’t seen in almost 2 years. My husband is godfather to one of their children. We will not see them again for at least another year and they live across the country. So yes, after a failed attempt to go to mass, 8 months pregnant and with 2 young children, I thought it would be acceptable to ask the priest to consider our Sunday obligation met and to allow us dinner with these dear friends. I know that some people risk their lives or walk miles to attend mass, and I also know that some people do very many extraordinary things in the name of the Lord on a daily basis. That fact does not require ALL of us to rudely stand up dear friends for dinner when it might be avoided by simply asking them permission of the parish priest once in a very great while when one goes to church without question every other Sunday of their lives. I’m sorry you can’t see it hat way.

 

[TryingHard17]

The most disappointing aspect of the strory is the immature behaviour of the husband.

I feel he was right to be upset, as was I. I don’t know any other priest who would have responded this way. I have gotten dispensations before for equal or lesser reasons. He was already in the car waiting with our two children in car seats and everyone was cranky and hungry and thirsty, and we already had to wait for this other priest because the priest I originally asked after waiting for 20 minutes would not hear my confession, saying that another priest was coming to do them in a few minutes and to wait for him.

Frankly, I don’t think we will be going back to this parish very often, as I found both priests today to be dismissive and pretty uninterested.

 

[TryingHard17]

Tryinghard there
is no doubt this thread has jumped the shark. I would recomnend you dont read it anymore You did fine, your husband is not immature and you are not insensitive to the plight of Chritian refugees.

Yes! Thank you!

 

[TryingHard17]

It makes me really sad reading a thread like this.

Everyone does their best when it comes to making Mass times and sometimes we just can’t make things happen on a certain, particular day.

We make the effort, it doesn’t work out, we examine our conscience and go to confession and try again next week.
There is no need to to throw out Holier than Thou comments to a mom who is clearly making an effort.

I’m actually quite surprised the Priest wouldn’t give you a dispensation. Most Priests I’ve encountered, even the strict ones, would be understanding.

I wouldn’t have thought to ask…but God Bless you for doing this. Take it as a lesson learned for next week!

Thank you, so very much!!!

 

[TryingHard17]

I think you will need to ask him why. You are frustrated and troubled by this, so follow up with him and ask him.

He did not say he “would not” give you a dispensation, he said he “cannot” give you a dispensation.

A pastor can dispense. An associate or other priest cannot. A pastor can only dispense his own parishioners.

Your comment regarding finding a church near your house implies you were not near your house.

If he was not the pastor, he could not dispense you. If he was not actually *your *pastor (which is defined in Church law) then he could not dispense you.

If he was the pastor, and if he was your pastor, then we are down to the requirement that the dispensation be for a “just cause” and “according to the prescripts of the diocesan bishop”. We do not know exactly what transpired in your conversation, or what guidelines your bishop has given to his priests, so the best course of action is to ask the priest for an explanation.

.

Interesting information. Thank you. I thought any priest could dispense.

 

[TryingHard17]

Dear TryingHard:

Hope you are feeling OK. That last few weeks of your pregancy! Wow,so hard, and with other little ones to care for, too. AND, a new place to live. So much to deal with! Here’s a hug: :hug3:

Jesus saw what you did for Him. Jesus saw what you endured for Him. He loves you so much. What was meant to be, happened. Be grateful for that opportunity that allowed you do offer up a little penance for Him. He will never give you what you cannot stand…just trust in Him.

“O Sacred Heart of Jesus, I place my trust in You!”

Blessings on your growing family!

Someone who understands! Thank you! It’s a chore just to get out of bed in the morning. 2.5-3 hours at church at 8 months pregnant with a 5 and 3 year old? Aaahhhh!

 

[Jon_S_1]

We met our friends of 30 years tonight for dinner whom we haven’t seen in almost 2 years. My husband is godfather to one of their children. We will not see them again for at least another year and they live across the country. So yes, after a failed attempt to go to mass, 8 months pregnant and with 2 young children, I thought it would be acceptable to ask the priest to consider our Sunday obligation met and to allow us dinner with these dear friends. I know that some people risk their lives or walk miles to attend mass, and I also know that some people do very many extraordinary things in the name of the Lord on a daily basis. That fact does not require ALL of us to rudely stand up dear friends for dinner when it might be avoided by simply asking them permission of the parish priest once in a very great while when one goes to church without question every other Sunday of their lives. I’m sorry you can’t see it hat way.

It was my understanding you were able to attend mass and not stand up your friends? Did that Change?

I just think we need perspective. The church tells us how important it is to set aside just one hour a week to worship the God that provides our next breath. That gives us 167 hours to do everything else. I’m sorry your day didn’t go as planned, but step back and look at the big picture, you were able to spend a few hours in a safe free country, get absolved of your sins in confession, worship God, and receive him really and truly in the Eucharist. Everything else is second teir and you were able to meet your obligations to your friends. In future when you have something extremely important, triple check the mass times or even go the day before which would have set aside all day today to stay at home.

You asked the priest and the church allows a lot of reasons to miss your Sunday obligation, but your situation just isn’t one of them. It’s not legalism, it is pastoral.

Ps : I may not be pregnant, but I am a single father with a 7,6 and 4 year old so I understand the challenges.

 

[TryingHard17]

I’m sure the priest meant well.

And I think it’s commendable that you go to Mass being 8 months pregnant and with 3 and 5 year old children in tow. My understanding is that St. Therese the Little Flower didn’t begin attending Mass until she was four years old. So you probably could apply the legalism of the Church and say that in your delicate condition as a caregiver to a 3 year old, you don’t have a Mass obligation to fulfill.

That said, you made an honest effort to attend Mass. It was an honest mistake that you were late. Friends in town or not, your efforts were genuine and you didn’t have an obligation to attend any later Mass, so you didn’t really have to as the priest for a dispensation.

When we have little children, we serve Our Father by meeting their needs. It is a burden on the wee little one to be expected to sit through a Mass in a foreign language or have to the schedule interruptions of a late Mass. (And I’m speaking from the experience of a mom whose oldest children were baptized at ages 11 mos, 2 yrs, and 4 yrs old during an anniversary Mass that was in a foreign language. My four year old was quite overwhelmed and flustered, but fortunately she was surrounded by loving family since the Mass was in honor of her great-grandparents 50th anniversary,)

As a mom of 8, I used to express the same concerns as you. Looking back, I wish that I hadn’t deferred so much of my God-given parental authority to men (priests) who too often lacked the understanding or wisdom to properly guide my family in some situations.

I hate to have to say this, and I wish that there had been an older mom to advise me at the time, but sometimes it’s best to test the proverbial waters before diving in. What I mean is that it’s best to observe the personalities and methodologies of priests, deacons, church leaders and parishioners in positions of authority at a new or unfamiliar parish. Once you’ve established that those in leadership are in line with Church teaching and properly dispositioned, then it’s okay to look to them for spiritual guidance.

And I truly and humbly mean this with almost 19 years of experience as a convert to the Faith, who also has been fortunate to receive wise counsel at times from Christians like the ones in the picture above.

God knows the intentions of our hearts.

Peace.

Thank you. I thought later about the “care of infants” clause in the catechism and how according to the Church, my children are still considered to be infants and were already complaining of thirst BEFORE the Spanish Confirmation mass began.

And maybe the priest DID mean well and meant he LITERALLY couldn’t dispense me from the obligation because he wasn’t my pastor. I didn’t even know that was a rule. I would still think he may have said that given the circumstances I did not NEED a dispensation, but he was tough all around.

 

[Jon_S_1]

I feel he was right to be upset, as was I. I don’t know any other priest who would have responded this way. I have gotten dispensations before for equal or lesser reasons. He was already in the car waiting with our two children in car seats and everyone was cranky and hungry and thirsty, and we already had to wait for this other priest because the priest I originally asked after waiting for 20 minutes would not hear my confession, saying that another priest was coming to do them in a few minutes and to wait for him.

Frankly, I don’t think we will be going back to this parish very often, as I found both priests today to be dismissive and pretty uninterested.

Do you not have a home parish? I think if you had explained the need being care for your children, you OR your husband could perhaps have been dispensed, but dinner parties aren’t really a good reason.

 

[TryingHard17]

It was my understanding you were able to attend mass and not stand up your friends? Did that Change?

I just think we need perspective. The church tells us how important it is to set aside just one hour a week to worship the God that provides our next breath. That gives us 167 hours to do everything else. I’m sorry your day didn’t go as planned, but step back and look at the big picture, you were able to spend a few hours in a safe free country, get absolved of your sins in confession, worship God, and receive him really and truly in the Eucharist. Everything else is second teir and you were able to meet your obligations to your friends. In future when you have something extremely important, triple check the mass times or even go the day before which would have set aside all day today to stay at home.

You asked the priest and the church allows a lot of reasons to miss your Sunday obligation, but your situation just isn’t one of them. It’s not legalism, it is pastoral.

Ps : I may not be pregnant, but I am a single father with a 7,6 and 4 year old so I understand the challenges.

No, our friends were coming over around 3 and mass was at 5. We would not have been able to do both. And they are leaving town tomorrow and we won’t see them again. As it turns out, we didn’t end up meeting them until later, but we didn’t know this at the time. At the time, it was an either/or situation. I was most bothered that the priest didn’t really ask me any more details about the situation or seem to even give it a second thought. He was very quick to say “Find a church near your house and go to mass”. It was really abrupt.

 

[TryingHard17]

Do you not have a home parish? I think if you had explained the need being care for your children, you OR your husband could perhaps have been dispensed, but dinner parties aren’t really a good reason.

We just moved across the country to this city. I specifically picked this church today because they have Sunday confessions and I really wanted to go. There is a closer church, by they don’t have the Sunday confession time.

 

[1ke]

I thought any priest could dispense.

No, absolutely not.

 

[Jon_S_1]

No, our friends were coming over around 3 and mass was at 5. We would not have been able to do both. And they are leaving town tomorrow and we won’t see them again. As it turns out, we didn’t end up meeting them until later, but we didn’t know this at the time. At the time, it was an either/or situation. I was most bothered that the priest didn’t really ask me any more details about the situation or seem to even give it a second thought. He was very quick to say “Find a church near your house and go to mass”. It was really abrupt.

Are you not counting the Spanish mass you went to? I don’t get it.