Priest wouldn't give dispensation...caused all sorts of trouble!

[estesbob]

Suppose we would be given $10 million in cash, and all we had to do for it was stay in a particular room at a particular time for somewhere between an hour and an hour and a half.

Would we make the effort to be there? Would we call friends we had already made plans with and either cancel or postpone? I bet we would!

At each Mass, we’re given something worth more than $10 million. We’re given something worth more than the entire world, more than the entire universe. We’re given Christ Himself, in the Eucharist.

Is it because we’re given this so often that we lose focus of how valuable this is?

So you go to daily Mass?

 

[Jon_S_1]

To those who are judging whether or not the OP had a serious enough reason to ask for a dispensation, you should make certain you wish to be scrutinized by your same severity on judgement day.

To the OP you tried really hard and even made it to not only mass but also confession. Your husband just lost his cool it has nothing to do with you. You didn’t make him upset he was just overwhelmed by the situation. Just try to remember to look up mass times before mass next week and don’t worry about this anymore!

No ones judging, we are just saying ask the priest and follow his direction. It’s his call as the church’s spiritual director to us.

We are also just discussing what our understanding of reasons to miss mass are. Such discussions are beneficial.

 

[1ke]

Doesn’t the word “grave” typically mean “things that may put you in a grave”. Ie: the person hit by a train is in grave condition.

No.

The Latin, gravis, from which these distinctions in Church law come, simply means “serious” or “weighty” matters. It does not mean life-threatening.

 

[12345678]

No ones judging, we are just saying ask the priest and follow his direction. It’s his call as the church’s spiritual director to us.

We are also just discussing what our understanding of reasons to miss mass are. Such discussions are beneficial.

No.

The Latin, gravis, from which these distinctions in Church law come, simply means “serious” or “weighty” matters. It does not mean life-threatening.

 

[Jon_S_1]

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No.

The Latin, gravis, from which these distinctions in Church law come, simply means “serious” or “weighty” matters. It does not mean life-threatening.

Ok, of course it does !

I think in our modern world of convenience what we view as “serious” are generally not too serious. Again, it’s for ones pastor to decide if it’s serious as the OP’s did.

Think from his perspective too. The person was at church, in the confessional, on a Sunday, a few minutes before a mass started, and the reason given him was that they missed their planned mass and had dinner plans hours later in the evening.

I really can’t imagine a priest giving a Sunday morning dispensation for such a reason.

 

[12345678]

​

Ok, of course it does !

I think in our modern world of convenience what we view as “serious” are generally not too serious. Again, it’s for ones pastor to decide if it’s serious as the OP’s did.

Think from his perspective too. The person was at church, in the confessional, on a Sunday, a few minutes before a mass started, and the reason given him was that they missed their planned mass and had dinner plans hours later in the evening.

I really can’t imagine a priest giving a Sunday morning dispensation for such a reason.

Agreed!

 

[phil19034]

I think you will need to ask him why. You are frustrated and troubled by this, so follow up with him and ask him.

He did not say he “would not” give you a dispensation, he said he “cannot” give you a dispensation.

A pastor can dispense. An associate or other priest cannot. A pastor can only dispense his own parishioners.

Your comment regarding finding a church near your house implies you were not near your house.

If he was not the pastor, he could not dispense you. If he was not actually *your *pastor (which is defined in Church law) then he could not dispense you.

If he was the pastor, and if he was your pastor, then we are down to the requirement that the dispensation be for a “just cause” and “according to the prescripts of the diocesan bishop”. We do not know exactly what transpired in your conversation, or what guidelines your bishop has given to his priests, so the best course of action is to ask the priest for an explanation.

.

This!

 

[1ke]

I think in our modern world of convenience what we view as “serious” are generally not too serious.

That is your opinion. You were not there and you are not the OP. I would refrain from speculating.

Again, it’s for ones pastor to decide if it’s serious as the OP’s did.

The canon does not require the reason be gravis. The canon itself speaks only of a “just cause”.

And, we do not know whether the priest in question was the pastor of that parish, let alone the OP’s pastor. I am inclined to think not, given her description of the situation. In which case, he had no power to dispense at all.

Think from his perspective too. The person was at church, in the confessional, on a Sunday, a few minutes before a mass started, and the reason given him was that they missed their planned mass and had dinner plans hours later in the evening.

I don’t think you read the OP’s post carefully. You have grossly oversimplified the totality of the situation presented by the OP.

I really can’t imagine a priest giving a Sunday morning dispensation for such a reason.

I can.

 

[phil19034]

I feel he was right to be upset, as was I. I don’t know any other priest who would have responded this way. I have gotten dispensations before for equal or lesser reasons. He was already in the car waiting with our two children in car seats and everyone was cranky and hungry and thirsty, and we already had to wait for this other priest because the priest I originally asked after waiting for 20 minutes would not hear my confession, saying that another priest was coming to do them in a few minutes and to wait for him.

Frankly, I don’t think we will be going back to this parish very often, as I found both priests today to be dismissive and pretty uninterested.

TryingHard - if this wasn’t your parish, which it sounds like that’s the case, the priest can’t give you a dispensation. Dispensations can only be given by your pastor or bishop. No other priest can give it.

If others have given it before, they either (a) thought you were a member of their parish or (b) bent the rules.

NOTE: I do commend you for sticking it out though. Please do not let this experience push you a way from the Church. Also try to look at the positives and find the lessons learned in life’s experiences.

God Bless and may The Lord grant us wisdom and understanding. Amen.

Phil

 

[TryingHard17]

I think the key word here is grave, but based on the conversation here I guess there is a group of people here that feel the situation was grave. I disagree. I personally would not have considered it overall being a grave situation if I messed up on the time and had another Mass available that wouldn’t conflict with my dinner plans, which seemed to be the priority. As soon as I realized I had to go to another Mass I would have changed my plans and prepared for the next one (feed the kids if possible, even if it is just going to the nearest convenience store/fast food and getting them something if there are no other options and no time, things like that, although maybe you didn’t have the time for this, just saying what we have done in the past). I guess staying around to get the dispensation that is assumed will be granted can set you up for ill feelings and disappointment.

Either way, I do not agree with the way the priest is being treated by some on this thread.

Grave simply means “significantly serious”. Was it a significantly serious inconvenience to myself (8 months pregnant), my family(husband and two small children who are still considered infants and not obligated to go to mass anyway according to the Church) and our friends (the parents of my husband’s godchild, whom we haven’t seen in 2 years and won’t see again for another year at least) to have to stay at church, hungry and thirsty for 3 hours with no notice in order to attempt to fulfill the obligation to attend mass because we had made a simple error regarding the time and had tried our best to get the family there? I would say that is a significantly serious inconvenience. Upon closer research and reflection, I tend to agree with many posters here that I should probably not have even asked, as I would not have been sinning in simply going next week and mentioning it at my next confession as possibly a venial matter. Unfortunately, I can be scrupulous and was being so yesterday. We tried. It didn’t work out. I should have left it at that. Instead, I asked a priest whom I didn’t know and who didn’t seem particularly interested in hearing my situation or ask me any questions about why I might not be able to attend later and I got an abrupt “find a church near your house and go to mass” answer. I had briefly mentioned the dinner with friends from out of town, but English was not his first language and I’m not sure he even really “got” what I was trying to say. Once he told me to go and was hustling me out of the confessional (I had to ask him if I was absolved because I didn’t even hear the absolution, he was talking so fast), I was obliged to obey him, but I should have simply used my own discretion as opposed to relying on someone else to be my conscience for me. Unfortunately, as a scrupulous person, I often do that to my own dismay and detriment.

 

[Ignatius]

So today, I thought mass started at 11. We just recently moved and I got the times mixed up. I arrived (8 months pregnant with my husband and two kids, 5 and 3) a couple of minutes early so I could hit confession and then attend mass. Well, as it turns out, mass was at 10 and we walked in just in time for the blessing. So I waited 30 minutes to talk to the priest at the next confession time, went in and did my confession and then asked if he could dispense the family today from our obligation since we legitimately tried to go to mass but failed. I also explained to him that we are having friends from out of town in this afternoon and attending in the evening would be very difficult.

Well, he said no. “Find a church near your house and go to mass”, he said. “I cannot give you a dispensation for this.”

So I told my husband we could wait 30 more minutes and attend the next mass (in Spanish, which we don’t speak) or go tonight (impossible with friends coming over). He wanted to just leave and said any other priest would never have refused a dispensation for such an honest mistake. I actually agreed with him, but insisted that we stay. Turns out, it was a CONFIRMATION mass, in Spanish. We stayed, but I got the stink eye from hubby the whole time and the kids were thirsty and tired through the whole thing.

Why didn’t he give us a dispensation??? Is my husband required to go to confession now since he was ready tondisobey the priest, or was the priest being truly unreasonable? !

You went to mass, so don’t worry about it…

 

[TryingHard17]

That is your opinion. You were not there and you are not the OP. I would refrain from speculating.

The canon does not require the reason be gravis. The canon itself speaks only of a “just cause”.

And, we do not know whether the priest in question was the pastor of that parish, let alone the OP’s pastor. I am inclined to think not, given her description of the situation. In which case, he had no power to dispense at all.

I don’t think you read the OP’s post carefully. You have grossly oversimplified the totality of the situation presented by the OP.

I can.

Thank you. I really thought any priest could dispense the obligation. Now that I know he can’t and have really considered it, I don’t think I even needed one. We were at a church together 20 minutes from home and the children (and my hungry, pregnant self) should have been plenty of reason to go home and care for them and rest up. Canceling on these people for dinner would have been incredibly rude and not an option and is a very extraordinary event that we wouldn’t even have the opportunity to repeat for another year. Jesus is not trying tI trap me into hell with a technicality. I need to trust in His mercy more. Not to mention that “full knowledge” of the sinful nature of the act itself would not have been present anyway at all.

 

[phil19034]

Grave simply means “significantly serious”. Was it a significantly serious inconvenience to myself (8 months pregnant), my family(husband and two small children who are still considered infants and not obligated to go to mass anyway according to the Church) and our friends (the parents of my husband’s godchild, whom we haven’t seen in 2 years and won’t see again for another year at least) to have to stay at church, hungry and thirsty for 3 hours with no notice in order to attempt to fulfill the obligation to attend mass because we had made a simple error regarding the time and had tried our best to get the family there? I would say that is a significantly serious inconvenience. Upon closer research and reflection, I tend to agree with many posters here that I should probably not have even asked, as I would not have been sinning in simply going next week and mentioning it at my next confession as possibly a venial matter. Unfortunately, I can be scrupulous and was being so yesterday. We tried. It didn’t work out. I should have left it at that. Instead, I asked a priest whom I didn’t know and who didn’t seem particularly interested in hearing my situation or ask me any questions about why I might not be able to attend later and I got an abrupt “find a church near your house and go to mass” answer. I had briefly mentioned the dinner with friends from out of town, **but English was not his first language and I’m not sure he even really “got” what I was trying to say. **Once he told me to go and was hustling me out of the confessional (I had to ask him if I was absolved because I didn’t even hear the absolution, he was talking so fast), I was obliged to obey him, but I should have simply used my own discretion as opposed to relying on someone else to be my conscience for me. Unfortunately, as a scrupulous person, I often do that to my own dismay and detriment.

Based on the fact that the priest was not a native English speaker, I would imagine that something may have been “lost in translation.”

Sometimes the syntax translate fine, but the voice infection, mannerisms or even choice of words altar what the priest was trying to communicate.

Also, some priests are simply blunt. They are very carrying people, but blunt. Blunt people can often rub others the wrong way, especially strangers.

If you haven’t done so, I would suggest that you 1) forgive the priest, 2) forgive your husband and 3) forgive yourself.

You did the right things.

Finally, find out which Parish you live in, and meet your pastor

God Bless!

 

[1ke]

but English was not his first language and I’m not sure he even really “got” what I was trying to say.

So in addition to the maybe-he-was-the-pastor-and-maybe-he-wasn’t situation, you also had a language barrier. I am sorry that you had such a rough day yesterday.

I was obliged to obey him

Well, I would disagree. It was not a command, it was not a requirement. As things developed-- fussy 3 year old or you becoming overly tired or having issues related to your pregnancy-- you could have left the Spanish mass you were attending if it have come to that. Do not view the priest declining the dispensation (which he may not have had the authority to give) as a requirement that you attend a later Mass no matter what circumstances developed as the day went on.

Unfortunately, as a scrupulous person, I often do that to my own dismay and detriment.

Perhaps it is best that you disengage from this thread if it is in any way aggravating your scrupulosity or making you second guess yourself.

I am sure such a situation will not arise again any time soon, and you will be more familiar with your area and the Mass times.

Best wishes on your soon-to-be new arrival!

 

[TryingHard17]

Based on the fact that the priest was not a native English speaker, I would imagine that something was “lost in translation.”

Sometimes the syntax translate fine, but the voice infection, mannerisms or even choice of words altar what the priest was trying to communicate.

Also, some priests are simply blunt. They are very carrying people, but blunt. Blunt people can often rub others the wrong way, especially strangers.

If you haven’t done so, I would suggest that you 1) forgive the priest, 2) forgive your husband and 3) forgive yourself.

You did the right things.

Finally, find out which Parish you live in, and meet your pastor

God Bless!

Thank you. All good advice!

 

[Kay_Cee]

So you go to daily Mass?

Yes.

 

[TryingHard17]

So in addition to the maybe-he-was-the-pastor-and-maybe-he-wasn’t situation, you also had a language barrier. I am sorry that you had such a rough day yesterday.

Well, I would disagree. It was not a command, it was not a requirement. As things developed-- fussy 3 year old or you becoming overly tired or having issues related to your pregnancy-- you could have left the Spanish mass you were attending if it have come to that. Do not view the priest declining the dispensation (which he may not have had the authority to give) as a requirement that you attend a later Mass no matter what circumstances developed as the day went on.

Perhaps it is best that you disengage from this thread if it is in any way aggravating your scrupulosity or making you second guess yourself.

I am sure such a situation will not arise again any time soon, and you will be more familiar with your area and the Mass times.

Best wishes on your soon-to-be new arrival!

Thank you We really do try our best as a family to get to mass (icy roads in Denver, vacations in unfamiliar places, visiting family who gives us a hard time about INSISTING about going, going at different times to care for sick kids, you name it, my husband and I try VERY hard together to get the whole show on the road whenever we can). Which I guess is why it hurts and frustrates us both when we both really feel it is just not in the cards that day, because we take our obligation very seriously. Being compared to someone who would kill a baby in the womb or having persecuted Christians shoved in my face as an example of what a ****** Catholic I am is less than helpful

I appreciate your Good wishes and God bless!

 

[phil19034]

Thank you. All good advice!

BTW - congrats on the soon-to-be born baby. I will say a quick prayer for you, your family and your unborn child.

May God Bless you, your family & your unborn child.

 

[Jon_S_1]

Thank you We really do try our best as a family to get to mass (icy roads in Denver, vacations in unfamiliar places, visiting family who gives us a hard time about INSISTING about going, going at different times to care for sick kids, you name it, my husband and I try VERY hard together to get the whole show on the road whenever we can). Which I guess is why it hurts and frustrates us both when we both really feel it is just not in the cards that day, because we take our obligation very seriously. Being compared to someone who would kill a baby in the womb or having persecuted Christians shoved in my face as an example of what a ****** Catholic I am is less than helpful

I appreciate your Good wishes and God bless!

I’m sorry you took the refugee picture the wrong way, I am not saying your a bad catholic quite the contrary I feel you went above and beyond. The medical condition of pregnancy and the caring of kids are both reasons you can forego mass of you feel you are unable to care for others or yourself and go to mass especially after you tried your best to meet the obligation.

The purpose of the picture was more for the posters, and perhaps your being upset about having to go to a Spanish mass instead of the English one. I was just trying to offer the thread (not just you) perspective that we are part of a global church and the church law is to deal with more than just the busyness of suburban living in the US.

I think it is important for all to soak in the big picture as it makes our seemingly large frustrations seen much much smaller.

Peace.

 

[MissRose73]

I know my mother had missed some Mass when I was a preschooler due to my health issues I’ve since long out grown and having a hyper active toddler that could not sit still for more than 2 minutes. Once my health issues got better, she could keep a tighter rein on my younger sister as I liked going to Mass. I only wonder what your priest OP would have said to her - would he been charitable or not.

I missed Mass when on a week long international vacation as I had no way to get to one & was not trying to miss. I was told that I did commit a sin as I should have made more of an effort, and I accepted that, and moved on. Next time I go to that destination, I will make sure I pick lodging much closer to the city center to be able to attend Mass without incurring too much expense.

At least my next major vacation, Mass attendance will be a given & a must as our pilgrimage group will have Mass every day including Sunday with the exception of the day we fly back home.