Priest wouldn't give dispensation...caused all sorts of trouble!

[dans0622]

Indeed, only a pastor can dispense the faithful from the obligation to participate in Mass on days of obligation and he can do this for a just cause, in accordance with whatever regulations the diocesan Bishop has imposed (c. 1245).

He can do this even for people who are travelers in his territory and so are not his subjects (c. 91).

Dan

 

[1ke]

He can do this even for people who are travelers in his territory and so are not his subjects (c. 91).

Thank you Dan. I did not know he could dispense those who are not his subjects. Good to know!

 

[phil19034]

Indeed, only a pastor can dispense the faithful from the obligation to participate in Mass on days of obligation and he can do this for a just cause, in accordance with whatever regulations the diocesan Bishop has imposed (c. 1245).

**He can do this even for people who are travelers in his territory and so are not his subjects **(c. 91).

Dan

Just to mention this for the good of people reading this in the future, because the OP wasn’t traveling (even though she and her family just moved to the area) she would not be considered a traveler.

A few examples of a “traveler” would a college student temporally living there, someone on a long vacation, or on a long temporary business assignment.

God Bless.

 

[dans0622]

Just to mention this for the good of people reading this in the future, because the OP wasn’t traveling (even though she and her family just moved to the area) she would not be considered a traveler.

A few examples of a “traveler” would a college student temporally living there, someone on a long vacation, or on a long temporary business assignment.

God Bless.

Hello,

Frankly, I haven’t kept up on the minutiae of this thread to know whether or not the OP was a “traveler” or not–i.e., if she was actually outside of the parish of her domicile or not. My impression was that she indeed was away from the parish of her domicile.

But, that’s a secondary matter. The canon I referenced (c. 91) used the term “traveler” and so I did, too, not to make a statement about the OP as much as to properly identify the dispensing power of a pastor, even in regard to those who are not his subjects.

That being said, I don’t think I can agree with your definition of “traveler.” Canon 100: “A person is said to be…a traveler (peregrinus) if away from the domicile or quasi-domicile which is still retained… .” If a person is away from his quasi/domicile, he’s a traveler for as long as he is absent. It doesn’t have to be a long absence.

Dan

 

[wadramli]

Do you realize how fortunate you’re , how the Lord of creation has been good to you ? your kids and the baby you carry and your husband and friends , these are all gifts and immense blessings given to you , blessing that often times none of us deserve . These blessings put us in much debt . We do not say because we have kids we should deserve mitigating considerations , we say because we have those blessing more should be expected of us . pregnancy is a great blessing and much more should be expected of us . and more definitely should be expected because we are not a priest who gave up all those blessings for the sake of his love of our Lord .

Some times priest save us by refusing to allow us to use the blessings Jesus gave us as a reason for there maybe a price to pay for it . blessing never come in the way between us and jesus . they bring us closer and should want us to be perfect by way of gratitude

I think you should print this and read it to the priest and apologize to him and thank him. Invite him for dinner . learn Spanish so you can expand on your circle of friends . teach them English and they teach you Spanish . most of all you need to ask Jesus for forgiveness and promise never to drag his blessings to you to the bargaining table . he won’t take them away but still you should .

A priest is a man of god . what he gave up few men can give up. A nun too. these are extraordinary people . compared to them a man with a hundred ikds and a women with hundred kids are nothing .

 

[estesbob]

Yes.

That was some long first reading today , wasn’t it!

 

[HB11]

:thumbsup:excellent comment.When my husband gets home in the morning I am giving him an extra big hug and kiss. When we had different working days and shifts he would come with me to the Italian Mass(we both do not even speak Italian) and he was not Catholic yet. It happened to be the best fit at that time in our life and circumstances as I was also taking care of my elderly Dad and Uncle.Don’t get stressed you sound like a you are doing great job and Bless your next arrival.

Well, yes and no. I think you do have to get a dispensation for the cruise situation (would be wise to do this BEFORE booking the cruise) because you don’t have to go on a cruise. It’s not impossible to go to Mass that weekend because it is possible not to go on a cruise with no priest on it. I personally have never been on a cruise and it hasn’t hurt me, although in my case it is for financial reasons.

And I certainly don’t think your husband committed a mortal sin (because in the end he went to Mass). You did what you are supposed to do in marriage, helped your husband avoid sin. The fact that he doesn’t appreciate this does not make it wrong of you to do it.

And I’m not sure where you’re located, but you obviously have access to the internet. You might have been able to find something more convenient on masstimes.org.

But having to wait around for half an hour before Mass starts, and then go to a longish Mass in another language doesn’t seem to be such a huge hardship, except for your husband’s reaction to it, which isn’t the priest’s fault. Your kids were tired, well, kids get tired all the time. The might have to wait longer than that at some place like the DMV, which is much less important.

Basically, you asked a question to which you thought you knew the answer, and it turned out you were wrong. It’s true that is a very frustrating experience, but just because the answer was unexpected, doesn’t make it unreasonable. The reason that you asked for the dispensation is that you knew it was still perfectly possible for you to attend Mass. The problem here isn’t the priest’s response, but your husband’s reaction. If you can think of a way to help him modify that reaction, you would be doing him a great service.

God bless you all,

–Jen

 

[TryingHard17]

Do you realize how fortunate you’re , how the Lord of creation has been good to you ? your kids and the baby you carry and your husband and friends , these are all gifts and immense blessings given to you , blessing that often times none of us deserve . These blessings put us in much debt . We do not say because we have kids we should deserve mitigating considerations , we say because we have those blessing more should be expected of us . pregnancy is a great blessing and much more should be expected of us . and more definitely should be expected because we are not a priest who gave up all those blessings for the sake of his love of our Lord .

Some times priest save us by refusing to allow us to use the blessings Jesus gave us as a reason for there maybe a price to pay for it . blessing never come in the way between us and jesus . they bring us closer and should want us to be perfect by way of gratitude

I think you should print this and read it to the priest and apologize to him and thank him. Invite him for dinner . learn Spanish so you can expand on your circle of friends . teach them English and they teach you Spanish . most of all you need to ask Jesus for forgiveness and promise never to drag his blessings to you to the bargaining table . he won’t take them away but still you should .

A priest is a man of god . what he gave up few men can give up. A nun too. these are extraordinary people . compared to them a man with a hundred ikds and a women with hundred kids are nothing .

You have GOT to be kidding me…

So you are suggesting I print out your comment, read it to this priest whom I will never see again, APOLOGIZE to him for anonymously saying over the Internet that I think he may have been being unfair (though I also admitted that maybe he didn’t understand me, was having a bad day, didn’t fully grasp the circumstances, etc.) and THEN (in all my spare time between being a mom to a newborn and to my other two kids who are not even school-age yet) LEARN another language and make a bunch of Spanish friends as some sort of bizarre penance because, as you say, if I were to have 100 children, I am NOTHING compared to this man?

Ummmmmm…

 

[TryingHard17]

:thumbsup:excellent comment.When my husband gets home in the morning I am giving him an extra big hug and kiss. When we had different working days and shifts he would come with me to the Italian Mass(we both do not even speak Italian) and he was not Catholic yet. It happened to be the best fit at that time in our life and circumstances as I was also taking care of my elderly Dad and Uncle.Don’t get stressed you sound like a you are doing great job and Bless your next arrival.

Thank you!

 

[johnnyc176]

Do you realize how fortunate you’re , how the Lord of creation has been good to you ? your kids and the baby you carry and your husband and friends , these are all gifts and immense blessings given to you , blessing that often times none of us deserve . These blessings put us in much debt . We do not say because we have kids we should deserve mitigating considerations , we say because we have those blessing more should be expected of us . pregnancy is a great blessing and much more should be expected of us . and more definitely should be expected because we are not a priest who gave up all those blessings for the sake of his love of our Lord .

Some times priest save us by refusing to allow us to use the blessings Jesus gave us as a reason for there maybe a price to pay for it . blessing never come in the way between us and jesus . they bring us closer and should want us to be perfect by way of gratitude

I think you should print this and read it to the priest and apologize to him and thank him. Invite him for dinner . learn Spanish so you can expand on your circle of friends . teach them English and they teach you Spanish . most of all you need to ask Jesus for forgiveness and promise never to drag his blessings to you to the bargaining table . he won’t take them away but still you should .

A priest is a man of god . what he gave up few men can give up. A nun too. these are extraordinary people . compared to them a man with a hundred ikds and a women with hundred kids are nothing .

Very nice thoughts. Not sure I agree with the last sentence but yes to the part about blessings given to us. I would like to learn Spanish.

 

[Blessedwithfive]

You have GOT to be kidding me…

So you are suggesting I print out your comment, read it to this priest whom I will never see again, APOLOGIZE to him for anonymously saying over the Internet that I think he may have been being unfair (though I also admitted that maybe he didn’t understand me, was having a bad day, didn’t fully grasp the circumstances, etc.) and THEN (in all my spare time between being a mom to a newborn and to my other two kids who are not even school-age yet) LEARN another language and make a bunch of Spanish friends as some sort of bizarre penance because, as you say, if I were to have 100 children, I am NOTHING compared to this man?

Ummmmmm…

I literally broke out laughing when I read this post. TryingHard, you are doing just fine. Now I know why my husband refers to this as my crazy cathoilc site. Soooo funny. I needed that!

 

[Edmundus1581]

I literally broke out laughing when I read this post. TryingHard, you are doing just fine. Now I know why my husband refers to this as my crazy cathoilc site. Soooo funny. I needed that!

Yes, it can be a crazy Catholic site!, but there’s usually some wheat in the chaff!

My worst moments on this site were some four years ago when I innocently entered a discussion on Sunday Obligation and got venemous responses from people who saw my views as too lax. It was a painful episode, but I recovered and I still find it worth my while to participate.

The most experienced posters usually have good insights, but I’m sure they got they way by going through the learning process here, and they probably had a few “ooops” moments themselves.

I’m glad I didn’t leave four years ago. I’ve learned a lot, my Catholic knowledge has expanded considerably, I’ve had a lot of fun, and made some very good internet “friends”.

 

[Edmundus1581]

Grave simply means “significantly serious”. Was it a significantly serious inconvenience to myself (8 months pregnant), my family(husband and two small children who are still considered infants and not obligated to go to mass anyway according to the Church) and our friends (the parents of my husband’s godchild, whom we haven’t seen in 2 years and won’t see again for another year at least) to have to stay at church, hungry and thirsty for 3 hours with no notice in order to attempt to fulfill the obligation to attend mass because we had made a simple error regarding the time and had tried our best to get the family there? I would say that is a significantly serious inconvenience. Upon closer research and reflection, I tend to agree with many posters here that I should probably not have even asked, as I would not have been sinning in simply going next week and mentioning it at my next confession as possibly a venial matter. Unfortunately, I can be scrupulous and was being so yesterday. We tried. It didn’t work out. I should have left it at that. Instead, I asked a priest whom I didn’t know and who didn’t seem particularly interested in hearing my situation or ask me any questions about why I might not be able to attend later and I got an abrupt “find a church near your house and go to mass” answer. I had briefly mentioned the dinner with friends from out of town, but English was not his first language and I’m not sure he even really “got” what I was trying to sayC:\Users\shosk_000\AppData\Local\Packages\lite-planner-r_k9b4n1ta5eg4ybut I should have simply used my own discretion as opposed to relying on someone else to be my conscience for me. Unfortunately, as a scrupulous person, I often do that to my own dismay and detriment.

In my opinion, you have responded well to the advice here.

You didn’t need to ask for a dispensation. You know best your circumstances, your health, and your obligations for your children, husband and friends, and you are also obedient to your Sunday Obligation, and grateful for Mass. Sometimes we have to make a decision in our conscience, before God, on a simple choice, and make that choice quite quickly.

Well, I would disagree. It was not a command, it was not a requirement. As things developed-- fussy 3 year old or you becoming overly tired or having issues related to your pregnancy-- you could have left the Spanish mass you were attending if it have come to that. Do not view the priest declining the dispensation (which he may not have had the authority to give) as a requirement that you attend a later Mass no matter what circumstances developed as the day went on.

I agree with that also. The priest’s advice should certainly have weight in your decision, and I’m sure it did, but you can still, in your conscience, make a different decision, or, after following it initially, you can change your mind as further problems arose.

With regard to the priests who have given you a dispensation previously, I don’t know all the circumstances but perhaps they would have done better to advise you that your particular situation then was a sufficient cause to miss Mass, and that you didn’t need a dispensation. Maybe, if they knew you and your sense of obedience, they thought a dispensation would be more comforting than a discussion.

Some of my most “growing” moments in Catholicism have come from dilemmas such as this, and often a few words from a wise old priest.

Contrary to popular misconceptions, Catholicism does not demand blind obedience - it not only permits us to form our own conscience, it expects us to.

You have GOT to be kidding me…

So you are suggesting I print out your comment, read it to this priest whom I will never see again, APOLOGIZE to him for anonymously saying over the Internet that I think he may have been being unfair (though I also admitted that maybe he didn’t understand me, was having a bad day, didn’t fully grasp the circumstances, etc.) and THEN (in all my spare time between being a mom to a newborn and to my other two kids who are not even school-age yet) LEARN another language and make a bunch of Spanish friends as some sort of bizarre penance because, as you say, if I were to have 100 children, I am NOTHING compared to this man?

Ummmmmm…

I literally broke out laughing when I read this post. TryingHard, you are doing just fine. Now I know why my husband refers to this as my crazy cathoilc site. Soooo funny. I needed that!

:thumbsup: That’s the spirit!

 

[TryingHard17]

I literally broke out laughing when I read this post. TryingHard, you are doing just fine. Now I know why my husband refers to this as my crazy cathoilc site. Soooo funny. I needed that!

Ha! I’m glad I could make you laugh!
I don’t think I have ever read anything like this post in all of my years in the Internet, which is really saying something! And my husband says the same thing!!!

 

[TryingHard17]

In my opinion, you have responded well to the advice here.

You didn’t need to ask for a dispensation. You know best your circumstances, your health, and your obligations for your children, husband and friends, and you are also obedient to your Sunday Obligation, and grateful for Mass. Sometimes we have to make a decision in our conscience, before God, on a simple choice, and make that choice quite quickly.

I agree with that also. The priest’s advice should certainly have weight in your decision, and I’m sure it did, but you can still, in your conscience, make a different decision, or, after following it initially, you can change your mind as further problems arose.

With regard to the priests who have given you a dispensation previously, I don’t know all the circumstances but perhaps they would have done better to advise you that your particular situation then was a sufficient cause to miss Mass, and that you didn’t need a dispensation. Maybe, if they knew you and your sense of obedience, they thought a dispensation would be more comforting than a discussion.

Some of my most “growing” moments in Catholicism have come from dilemmas such as this, and often a few words from a wise old priest.

Contrary to popular misconceptions, Catholicism does not demand blind obedience - it not only permits us to form our own conscience, it expects us to.

:thumbsup: That’s the spirit!

Ok this is good to know. I thought I was bound to follow his directive in obedience. I didn’t realize I could then turn around and make a different decision. Glad I learned that!

 

[estesbob]

You have GOT to be kidding me…

So you are suggesting I print out your comment, read it to this priest whom I will never see again, APOLOGIZE to him for anonymously saying over the Internet that I think he may have been being unfair (though I also admitted that maybe he didn’t understand me, was having a bad day, didn’t fully grasp the circumstances, etc.) and THEN (in all my spare time between being a mom to a newborn and to my other two kids who are not even school-age yet) LEARN another language and make a bunch of Spanish friends as some sort of bizarre penance because, as you say, if I were to have 100 children, I am NOTHING compared to this man?

Ummmmmm…

I warned you this thread had jumped the shark!

 

[Lormar]

Trying Hard, I only read the first page and scanned the other seven, but if I understand this correctly, even though you are upset with the priest for not giving you a dispensation, you obeyed him just the same?

 

[zab]

So today, I thought mass started at 11. We just recently moved and I got the times mixed up. I arrived (8 months pregnant with my husband and two kids, 5 and 3) a couple of minutes early so I could hit confession and then attend mass. Well, as it turns out, mass was at 10 and we walked in just in time for the blessing. So I waited 30 minutes to talk to the priest at the next confession time, went in and did my confession and then asked if he could dispense the family today from our obligation since we legitimately tried to go to mass but failed. I also explained to him that we are having friends from out of town in this afternoon and attending in the evening would be very difficult.

Well, he said no. “Find a church near your house and go to mass”, he said. “I cannot give you a dispensation for this.”

So I told my husband we could wait 30 more minutes and attend the next mass (in Spanish, which we don’t speak) or go tonight (impossible with friends coming over). He wanted to just leave and said any other priest would never have refused a dispensation for such an honest mistake. I actually agreed with him, but insisted that we stay. Turns out, it was a CONFIRMATION mass, in Spanish. We stayed, but I got the stink eye from hubby the whole time and the kids were thirsty and tired through the whole thing.

Why didn’t he give us a dispensation??? Is my husband required to go to confession now since he was ready tondisobey the priest, or was the priest being truly unreasonable? So confused, and more than a little annoyed that this priest refused to consider these extraordinary circumstances.

Thanks!

I can empathize with your situation. But I think that this is a test of obedience. You and your husband were obedient. So your fault is not with disobedience.

 

[Lormar]

Trying Hard, I only read the first page and scanned the other seven, but if I understand this correctly, even though you are upset with the priest for not giving you a dispensation, you obeyed him just the same?

I ought to take a remedial reading comprehension course.

Trying Hard, you have my admiration. Had I been you, I wouldn’t have stayed. You are a better Catholic than I am.

 

[Allegra]

Do you realize how fortunate you’re , how the Lord of creation has been good to you ? your kids and the baby you carry and your husband and friends , these are all gifts and immense blessings given to you , blessing that often times none of us deserve . These blessings put us in much debt . We do not say because we have kids we should deserve mitigating considerations , we say because we have those blessing more should be expected of us . pregnancy is a great blessing and much more should be expected of us . and more definitely should be expected because we are not a priest who gave up all those blessings for the sake of his love of our Lord .

Some times priest save us by refusing to allow us to use the blessings Jesus gave us as a reason for there maybe a price to pay for it . blessing never come in the way between us and jesus . they bring us closer and should want us to be perfect by way of gratitude

I think you should print this and read it to the priest and apologize to him and thank him. Invite him for dinner . learn Spanish so you can expand on your circle of friends . teach them English and they teach you Spanish . most of all you need to ask Jesus for forgiveness and promise never to drag his blessings to you to the bargaining table . he won’t take them away but still you should .

A priest is a man of god . what he gave up few men can give up. A nun too. these are extraordinary people . compared to them a man with a hundred ikds and a women with hundred kids are nothing .