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031064
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Why can’t gay people be admitted to the priesthood if priests are emant to be celibate? Why should this matter?
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Fergal
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For the very reason that it is intrinsically disordered.
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031064
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It’s disordered b/c same-sex attraction is not what God intended for men to feel. But he should be celibate and therefore this shouldn’t matter. What’s up with that?
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garysibio
Guest
I used to wonder about that also but a few months ago I heard something which clarified the issue for me. (I’d give them credit if I could remember who it was.) When someone becomes a priest, we ask them to remain celibate. They are giving up having a sex life. However, if the person is gay, they are giving up something they shouldn’t be doing in the first place. That’s not much of a sacrifice on their part.
Gary
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Spirithound
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It also would not be charitable to that man with same-sex attractions to put him in with a group of other men, as this could be a near occasion of sin.
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Other_Eric
Guest
People simply need to wake up to the fact that Christ simply has no calling for some.
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alt101
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yeah it seems
that to a gay priest living with other priests, or any men for that matter, it may seem like a co-ed type of environment. he might as well be a straight priest living with a bunch of women.
that to a gay priest living with other priests, or any men for that matter, it may seem like a co-ed type of environment. he might as well be a straight priest living with a bunch of women.
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TheDoctor
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FYI, The Congregation For Catholic Education issued an “Instruction Concerning the Criteria for the Discernment of Vocations with regard to Persons with Homosexual Tendencies in view of their Admission to the Seminary and to Holy Orders” in 2005. You can see it at vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccatheduc/documents/rc_con_ccatheduc_doc_20051104_istruzione_en.html
I don’t think there has been another document specifically addressing the issue since then.
The document does say that "In the light of such teaching, this Dicastery, in accord with the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, believes it necessary to state clearly that the Church, while profoundly respecting the persons in question, cannot admit to the seminary or to holy orders those who practise homosexuality, present deep-seated homosexual tendencies or support the so-called “gay culture”.
However, it also says “Different, however, would be the case in which one were dealing with homosexual tendencies that were only the expression of a transitory problem - for example, that of an adolescence not yet superseded. Nevertheless, such tendencies must be clearly overcome at least three years before ordination to the diaconate.”
So as I read it, practicing homosexuals, those who openly support the “gay culture” and those with deep-seated tendencies are barred from Holy Orders. Those men however, who are struggling with homosexual tendencies may be admitted but must show that these tendencies have been dealt with.
May I ask us to remember in our discussions that the sin is in the homosexual act, not in being homosexual.
I don’t think there has been another document specifically addressing the issue since then.
The document does say that "In the light of such teaching, this Dicastery, in accord with the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, believes it necessary to state clearly that the Church, while profoundly respecting the persons in question, cannot admit to the seminary or to holy orders those who practise homosexuality, present deep-seated homosexual tendencies or support the so-called “gay culture”.
However, it also says “Different, however, would be the case in which one were dealing with homosexual tendencies that were only the expression of a transitory problem - for example, that of an adolescence not yet superseded. Nevertheless, such tendencies must be clearly overcome at least three years before ordination to the diaconate.”
So as I read it, practicing homosexuals, those who openly support the “gay culture” and those with deep-seated tendencies are barred from Holy Orders. Those men however, who are struggling with homosexual tendencies may be admitted but must show that these tendencies have been dealt with.
May I ask us to remember in our discussions that the sin is in the homosexual act, not in being homosexual.
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Nita
Guest
God has a calling for each one of us. “Calling” does not refer only to the priesthood.
- I am a woman, and as such, I know that in no way would God ever call me to the priesthood. If I started noticing a pull to think I should be a priest, I’d know the source of that pull would not be God.
- In the same way, a man who has an attraction for other men should know that God is not calling Him to the priesthood.
- A man who has an “irresistable” attraction to women should know that God is not calling him to priesthood in the Latin rite (maybe in the Byzatine, …
).
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oblsbdc
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To be sure there are many holy priests serving in parishes and the Vatican who are homosexual. Benedict Grochele has even acknowledge that within the history of the church many holy men have probably been homosexual.
The Vatican policy regarding the admittance of homosexuals to seminary formation only forbads those with proven consistent same sex attraction and a non-celibate life style that have been known to uphold a gay ‘subculture.’ In fact, it is silly to think that applicants to seminary aware of such criteria don’t simply remain silent on the issue. In other cases the Vatican guidlines simply say that transitory same sex issues are not grounds for disbarment and that ALL applicants must have been celibate for a three year period. The Vatican policy sets the bar for ‘rejection’ of a candidate quite high.
Other arguments in this post are quite silly.
Priests don’t sacrifice ‘sex’ for the sake of ‘sex’ - i.e. “its not really a sacrifice becuase they shouldn’t be doing it anyway.” The Catechism clearly states that celibacy is a mark of dedicated pastoral life, in the case of secular clergy, and a sign of the fullness of the kingdom of God, for those in religious orders. It has nothing to do with sacrificing sex itself. That is why Eastern Catholic and Orthodox priests DO have sex.
To assume that men cannot life together in continence is silly as well. This same argument would suggest that heterosexual men shouldn’t live in co-ed dormatories at college or in apartment buildings when grown becuase they can’t control themselves around women - which is nonsense.
As long as homosexual priests live a life of holy service to the church in moral rectitude its really of no importance. They struggle in a similar manner to any other priest, married person, consecrated virgin etc.
Really, there are other more important things to focus on. Just pray for all priests and seminarians that they be given grace and strength.
The Vatican policy regarding the admittance of homosexuals to seminary formation only forbads those with proven consistent same sex attraction and a non-celibate life style that have been known to uphold a gay ‘subculture.’ In fact, it is silly to think that applicants to seminary aware of such criteria don’t simply remain silent on the issue. In other cases the Vatican guidlines simply say that transitory same sex issues are not grounds for disbarment and that ALL applicants must have been celibate for a three year period. The Vatican policy sets the bar for ‘rejection’ of a candidate quite high.
Other arguments in this post are quite silly.
Priests don’t sacrifice ‘sex’ for the sake of ‘sex’ - i.e. “its not really a sacrifice becuase they shouldn’t be doing it anyway.” The Catechism clearly states that celibacy is a mark of dedicated pastoral life, in the case of secular clergy, and a sign of the fullness of the kingdom of God, for those in religious orders. It has nothing to do with sacrificing sex itself. That is why Eastern Catholic and Orthodox priests DO have sex.
To assume that men cannot life together in continence is silly as well. This same argument would suggest that heterosexual men shouldn’t live in co-ed dormatories at college or in apartment buildings when grown becuase they can’t control themselves around women - which is nonsense.
As long as homosexual priests live a life of holy service to the church in moral rectitude its really of no importance. They struggle in a similar manner to any other priest, married person, consecrated virgin etc.
Really, there are other more important things to focus on. Just pray for all priests and seminarians that they be given grace and strength.
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Spirithound
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So, those who are not chaste, those unable to keep their minds out of the gutter, and those who support unchastity.
Sounds like the requirements for heterosexuals.
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TheDoctor
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Sadly, yes. It seems to be the universal struggle today, especailly among men. All the more reason I am filled with awe and pride when I see the majority of our priests living out their vocation in chasity and celibacy. These men are a humble and beautiful example of self-sacrifice for US. Kind of makes me feel unworthy…but that’s probably another thread.
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St_Aloysius
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Try telling that to a homosexual. Anyone willing to serve God in this fullest manner, offering their innermost desires in favor of chastity, is performing a noble and holy sacrifice.
Father Mychal Judge died in his priestly duty administering Last Rites to fallen 9/11 victims, remaining loyal and true to God to the last. His sexuality in no way interferred with his priestly ministry.
The Church, so far as it appears in the aforementioned document, does permit chaste homosexual persons to be admitted to the preisthood.
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FCEGM
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The Church’s stance on this has been just again been addressed in a letter from the Vatican Secretary of State to the bishops of the world:
ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=88609
The letter references the essential reason as stated in the 2005 document for the prohibition:
ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=88609
The letter references the essential reason as stated in the 2005 document for the prohibition:
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alt101
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wow. good points.
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Lion_of_Narnia
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The American Diocese are facing up to a very expensive lesson (2+ Billion $'s and growing)–that gay men on average have higher sexual urges that heterosexual men.
Its one of the few legitimate findings of Alfred Kinsey–since as a closeted homosexual-pederast he disproportionatley reported populations of homosexuals into his general findiongs.
Many homosexual-oriented priests keep their vows. Let them serve out their vocations with dignity and honor.
But for seminarians–when one finds one’s self in a hole the first principle is stop digging yourself deeper!!!
Its one of the few legitimate findings of Alfred Kinsey–since as a closeted homosexual-pederast he disproportionatley reported populations of homosexuals into his general findiongs.
Many homosexual-oriented priests keep their vows. Let them serve out their vocations with dignity and honor.
But for seminarians–when one finds one’s self in a hole the first principle is stop digging yourself deeper!!!
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garysibio
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The RCC teaches that homosexuality (the tendency, not the act) is inherently disordered. Period.
The differernce between giving up gay sex and giving up straight sex is comparable to the difference between selling all your bpossessions and giving the money to the poor and giving up knocking over convernience stores. Don’t bother telling me you think I’m wrong. I don’t care.
Gary
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garysibio
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The differernce is that homosexuality is inherently disordered, heterosexuality is not.
Gary
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BabyFang
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The reason why I believe that homosexuals should not become priest is that when a seminarian becomes a priest he marries the Church, which is considered female.
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anamchrist
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If you get rid of all the gay priests you aren’t going to be left with much.
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