Priestly Formation

  • Thread starter Thread starter trickster
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
T

trickster

Guest
Hello all…going to switch channels a bit here from Aboriginal Catholicism to a question about the formation of priests.

I understand that the formation of priests differs significantly since the Vatican II Council…could someone get me up to date on that statement. I don’t know if it is true or false…

Cause other than having to learn Latin, I can’t imagine how today’s priests (and their formation) makes them any less of a priest…

Bruce Ferguson
Trickster
 
Here is the Program of Priesty Formation for the US. If you read the introductions, they touch a little bit on why the formation of priests has changed.

I am not sure if the same rules apply in Canada, but here in this is applicable for both the secular (diocesean) priests and for those who belong to religious orders.

Hope this helps in you reasearch.
 
trickster said:
Hello all…going to switch channels a bit here from Aboriginal Catholicism to a question about the formation of priests.

I understand that the formation of priests differs significantly since the Vatican II Council…could someone get me up to date on that statement. I don’t know if it is true or false…

Cause other than having to learn Latin, I can’t imagine how today’s priests (and their formation) makes them any less of a priest…

Bruce Ferguson
Trickster
Click to expand...
Are you asking how priestly formation has changed or if today’s formation make priests less than the priests of yesteryear? These are two different questions.
 
I think if you want to really discuss differences in priestly formation you shouldn’t start with the differences between V2 and pre-V2, but the differences between how priests were formed before there were seminaries and after seminaries were formed. Those two experiences would be far more different than what you are proposing.

One thing to remember is that even in pre-V2 times seminary experiences could vary from time to time and it shouldn’t necessarily be looked upon as some golden age of Catholicism. Priestly formation has at times been uneven in different locales and times. Also even in our own times the formation of a priest in the 1970s will have been different than that of those ordained in the 2000s.

ChadS
 
ChadS said:
I think if you want to really discuss differences in priestly formation you shouldn’t start with the differences between V2 and pre-V2, but the differences between how priests were formed before there were seminaries and after seminaries were formed. Those two experiences would be far more different than what you are proposing.

One thing to remember is that even in pre-V2 times seminary experiences could vary from time to time and it shouldn’t necessarily be looked upon as some golden age of Catholicism. Priestly formation has at times been uneven in different locales and times. Also even in our own times the formation of a priest in the 1970s will have been different than that of those ordained in the 2000s.

ChadS
Click to expand...
And hopefully, much different. 🙂
 
fsspolgs.org/index.html

Formation

The formation program at Our Lady of Guadalupe Seminary is seven years long. It consists of the following divisions:
  1. One year of spiritual formation: An initial “year of spirituality” introduces the candidate to the Fraternity, its community life, and a disciplined life of prayer and penance. During this time, the seminarian wears civilian dress and, in close union with his superiors and spiritual director, seeks to discern if he is truly being called to become a priest for this community.
  2. Two years of philosophical studies: In order to study theology, a sound philosophical formation is necessary. As many Popes have recommended, the philosophical studies carried out at our seminary are according to the principles and methods of St. Thomas Aquinas. These two years of philosophy are complemented by a number of other subjects such as Latin, Greek, Intro to Scripture, Fundamental Theology and Gregorian Chant. Seminarians take the cassock at the beginning of their second year and become temporary incorporated members of the Fraternity.
  3. Four years of theological studies: This is a systematic study of the entire contents of the Catholic faith. The principle work used is the Summa Theologiae of St. Thomas Aquinas; this is augmented by study of the historical and scriptural basis for the Church’s explication of dogma, as well as authentic teaching and development that has taken place in subsequent centuries. In addition to Dogmatic and Moral Theology, Exegesis, Liturgy, Church History, Canon Law, and Gregorian Chant are also studied during these years. A semester, or year, of apostolic work is included in the four years.
The progression and advancement toward priesthood includes Minor, as well as Major Orders (Porter, Lector, Acolyte, Exorcist, Subdiaconate, Diaconate & Priesthood). This systematic integration into priesthood provides reassurances along the way towards ordination. At the end of the formation process, the seminarian has progressed through a development of his spiritual and ascetic life within the context of community living. Following priestly ordination, the priest will be assigned to a particular apostolate within the Fraternity that includes parish work, teaching and possible further studies.
 
Oneofthewomen said:
Here is the Program of Priesty Formation for the US. If you read the introductions, they touch a little bit on why the formation of priests has changed.

I am not sure if the same rules apply in Canada, but here in this is applicable for both the secular (diocesean) priests and for those who belong to religious orders.

Hope this helps in you reasearch.
Click to expand...
the PPF will tell you everything you need to know about priestly formation in today’s church.

It is based off JPII’s Pastores Dabo Vobis latin for I will give you shepherds
 
Oneofthewomen said:
Here is the Program of Priesty Formation for the US. If you read the introductions, they touch a little bit on why the formation of priests has changed.

I am not sure if the same rules apply in Canada, but here in this is applicable for both the secular (diocesean) priests and for those who belong to religious orders.

Hope this helps in you reasearch.
Click to expand...
Cheers. Easy read, I’ll get through that during breakfast.

God Bless!
 
The outline from the FSSP seminary listed above hasn’t changed. What has changed, from what I understand, is what is done on a day to day basis in general. Old seminaries were very monastic, and modern seminaries aren’t as much. There are always exceptions both pre and post VII.

Recently I visited a minor seminary on a come and see weekend. On the whole, things seem very lax. No curfew, no grand silence, freedom to leave the campus, little spiritual development outside of monthly (or maybe every two weeks) spiritual direction. Bi-lingual culture, human formation, and fraternal life seemed to be priorities. Latin is not required at this minor seminary, but is offered. Latin is not offered at the major seminary. All of these things are not necessarily bad (except the lack of latin), but can be temptations.

Things at seminaries are getting better, regardless of how they were before 1970. Hopefully in the near future I will visit the FSSP’s seminary to better compare (assuming both are representative of old and new).
 
BertBlyleven said:
The outline from the FSSP seminary listed above hasn’t changed. What has changed, from what I understand, is what is done on a day to day basis in general. Old seminaries were very monastic, and modern seminaries aren’t as much. There are always exceptions both pre and post VII.

Recently I visited a minor seminary on a come and see weekend. On the whole, things seem very lax. No curfew, no grand silence, freedom to leave the campus, little spiritual development outside of monthly (or maybe every two weeks) spiritual direction. Bi-lingual culture, human formation, and fraternal life seemed to be priorities. Latin is not required at this minor seminary, but is offered. Latin is not offered at the major seminary. All of these things are not necessarily bad (except the lack of latin), but can be temptations.

Things at seminaries are getting better, regardless of how they were before 1970. Hopefully in the near future I will visit the FSSP’s seminary to better compare (assuming both are representative of old and new).
Click to expand...
fsspolgs.org/horarium.html
Code: 
Weekday Schedule - Class Days

06:00               Rise
06:20               Lauds (followed by Meditation)	
07:10               Holy Mass (0650 if a Sung Mass)
08:00               Silent Breakfast
08:25               Grand Silence over
08:35-09:20         Class Period I
09:25-10:10         Class Period II
10:25-11:10         Class Period III
11:15-12:00         Class Period IV
12:15               Sext (1210 Rosary on Thurs./Sat.)
12:30               Lunch
13:00               Mandatory Recreation (Wed. Free Time after lunch to 1700)
14:20               Recreation ends
14:50-15:35         Class Period V
15:40-16:25         Class Period VI
16:30-17:15         Class Period VII (Community chant Tues./Thurs. 1700-1725)
17:30               Vespers
18:00-18:30         Dinner
18:30               Optional recreation
19:00               Optional community Rosary (Friday-Wednesday)
19:30               Compline
20:00-20:30         Spiritual Conference (Wed.)
                    Eucharistic Adoration (Thurs. from 20:00-21:00)
                    Rector's Conference (Fri.)
                    Grand Silence follows (lasts to 0825 the next morning)
22:00               Retire to rooms
22:30               Lights out
 
One thing that always impressed me about the FSSP’s schedule is the mandatory recreation.
 
BertBlyleven said:
The outline from the FSSP seminary listed above hasn’t changed. What has changed, from what I understand, is what is done on a day to day basis in general. Old seminaries were very monastic, and modern seminaries aren’t as much. There are always exceptions both pre and post VII.

Recently I visited a minor seminary on a come and see weekend. On the whole, things seem very lax. No curfew, no grand silence, freedom to leave the campus, little spiritual development outside of monthly (or maybe every two weeks) spiritual direction. Bi-lingual culture, human formation, and fraternal life seemed to be priorities. Latin is not required at this minor seminary, but is offered. Latin is not offered at the major seminary. All of these things are not necessarily bad (except the lack of latin), but can be temptations.

Things at seminaries are getting better, regardless of how they were before 1970. Hopefully in the near future I will visit the FSSP’s seminary to better compare (assuming both are representative of old and new).
Click to expand...
Doesn’t sound like my seminary, so I’d say to visit some other places as well. We do have a curfew and quiet hours, there are weekly formation conferences about all four areas of formation (spiritual, human, intellectual, and pastoral), and each seminarian is expected to meet with his spiritual director about every two to three weeks. Latin is required for certain degree programs and most people end up taking it. And don’t think that the three things you say were priorities at the place you visited aren’t important. Fraternal life is especially important to your formation–if you don’t learn how to be a man of community, it will be very difficult for you to be a pastor of souls. Check out a few others before you make any decisions (assuming those decisions aren’t made for you through your diocese).

-ACEGC
 
w_s_s said:
fsspolgs.org/horarium.html
Code: 
Weekday Schedule - Class Days

06:00               Rise
06:20               Lauds (followed by Meditation)	
07:10               Holy Mass (0650 if a Sung Mass)
08:00               Silent Breakfast
08:25               Grand Silence over
08:35-09:20         Class Period I
09:25-10:10         Class Period II
10:25-11:10         Class Period III
11:15-12:00         Class Period IV
12:15               Sext (1210 Rosary on Thurs./Sat.)
12:30               Lunch
13:00               Mandatory Recreation (Wed. Free Time after lunch to 1700)
14:20               Recreation ends
14:50-15:35         Class Period V
15:40-16:25         Class Period VI
16:30-17:15         Class Period VII (Community chant Tues./Thurs. 1700-1725)
17:30               Vespers
18:00-18:30         Dinner
18:30               Optional recreation
19:00               Optional community Rosary (Friday-Wednesday)
19:30               Compline
20:00-20:30         Spiritual Conference (Wed.)
                    Eucharistic Adoration (Thurs. from 20:00-21:00)
                    Rector's Conference (Fri.)
                    Grand Silence follows (lasts to 0825 the next morning)
22:00               Retire to rooms
22:30               Lights out
Click to expand...
What an awesome schedule! Makes me want to be a seminarian!

I love the idea of the Grand Silence.

No wonder FSSP priests are so well formed. 👍
 
TrueLight said:
What an awesome schedule! Makes me want to be a seminarian!

I love the idea of the Grand Silence.

No wonder FSSP priests are so well formed. 👍
Click to expand...
Makes me wish my school schedule was like that. One. More. Semester. Must. Push. Through.
 
w_s_s said:
fsspolgs.org/horarium.html
Code: 
Weekday Schedule - Class Days

06:00               Rise
06:20               Lauds (followed by Meditation)	
07:10               Holy Mass (0650 if a Sung Mass)
08:00               Silent Breakfast
08:25               Grand Silence over
08:35-09:20         Class Period I
09:25-10:10         Class Period II
10:25-11:10         Class Period III
11:15-12:00         Class Period IV
12:15               Sext (1210 Rosary on Thurs./Sat.)
12:30               Lunch
13:00               Mandatory Recreation (Wed. Free Time after lunch to 1700)
14:20               Recreation ends
14:50-15:35         Class Period V
15:40-16:25         Class Period VI
16:30-17:15         Class Period VII (Community chant Tues./Thurs. 1700-1725)
17:30               Vespers
18:00-18:30         Dinner
18:30               Optional recreation
19:00               Optional community Rosary (Friday-Wednesday)
19:30               Compline
20:00-20:30         Spiritual Conference (Wed.)
                    Eucharistic Adoration (Thurs. from 20:00-21:00)
                    Rector's Conference (Fri.)
                    Grand Silence follows (lasts to 0825 the next morning)
22:00               Retire to rooms
22:30               Lights out
Click to expand...
wow this is a crazy strict, it sounds like what you goes say is that its a good seminary, but I really don’t think I would like this strict of a schedule, and I could see problems of this strict of a schedule.

if a student has to take every single class period, and attend all this stuff, I could see a disadvantage to all this. having this strict of a schedule doesn’t transfer over to the priesthood especially if these guys are being formed for the diocesan life. In Diocesan life you are pretty much in control of your own schedule with the exception of mass. You decide who to see and when, you may have a decision when to take days off, and so on and so forth. If your coming from this ridged regimented life to this free time management type life I could see priests having a issue when changing to a life like this.

This strict regiment life would be good for the philosophical formation, because you are dealing with young unformatted seminarians. But when you get into the later stages of formation it would make sense to kidna free things up for the seminarian. Give him more freedom in when to pray, and stuff like that. Those are just my thoughts.

While you could call my seminary strict it is nothing to what this schedule is made out to be.

My schedule goes like this

7:30 wake up
8:00 class period 1
9:30 class period 2
11:15 mass
12 :00 Lunch
1:00 class period 3
2:30 class period 4
4:00 class period 5
5:45 Mediation or Rosary (Wedesnday is rosary, friday saturday sunday are open, all other days are mediation
6:15 Evening prayer
6:30 Dinner
the rest of the night is free no lights out, except a 11pm curfew.

it is more like a college schedule, you have 5 classes so you could have up to 5 classes in one day and no on the others.

for example next semester, I could very well have 4 classes on monday and wednesday, having a break at 1pm

on tuesday and thursday have one class at 9:30

Its a schedule that is strict yes it also gives some time for free time, and time that you develop your own personal pray time own study habits, workout habits and so on and so forth. While at times this strict of a schedule would be great the you listed every day out be a little much.

It may work, but it just appears there could be problems.
 
edward_george said:
Doesn’t sound like my seminary, so I’d say to visit some other places as well. We do have a curfew and quiet hours, there are weekly formation conferences about all four areas of formation (spiritual, human, intellectual, and pastoral), and each seminarian is expected to meet with his spiritual director about every two to three weeks. Latin is required for certain degree programs and most people end up taking it. And don’t think that the three things you say were priorities at the place you visited aren’t important. Fraternal life is especially important to your formation–if you don’t learn how to be a man of community, it will be very difficult for you to be a pastor of souls. Check out a few others before you make any decisions (assuming those decisions aren’t made for you through your diocese).

-ACEGC
Click to expand...
exactly the best time you will build your human pillar is in the halls developing fellowship. It is seen as a big issue in my seminary at-least if someone is struggling to gain relationships in the seminary community.

Every spiritual director meeting and formation meeting, they ask me about how I’m getting along with the other guys in the seminary. If there are any guys who I don’t get along with or there may be bad blood or something.

and also I suspect that the decision will be made for you by your diocese, atleast they will give you an option at the best. Diocese what their to be fraternity between the seminarians of the diocese. Remember when these guys become priests they need a relationship with other priests, if those relationships are developed in seminary a priest will likely struggle. Priests can’t fight the battles against the evil one without the assistance of others. It is the case with many priests who decide to leave ministry is that they had no relationship with other priests, and their problems may have gone unnoticed because of this lack of relationship.
 
one last thing, don’t think that this board will have the best answers for this, because while some of us may know a lot, we won’t know the situation in your diocese and how your diocese wants to formate their future priests.

Ask your vocations director if you are considering a vocation to the priestly life, or religious life, they always always will be able to give you the best advice about what to do.
 
trickster said:
Hello all…going to switch channels a bit here from Aboriginal Catholicism to a question about the formation of priests.

I understand that the formation of priests differs significantly since the Vatican II Council…could someone get me up to date on that statement. I don’t know if it is true or false…

Cause other than having to learn Latin, I can’t imagine how today’s priests (and their formation) makes them any less of a priest…

Bruce Ferguson
Trickster
Click to expand...
Not sure what question your asking but two of the most important documents on the formation of priest are: 'The 1961 Instruction on the Careful Selection and training of candiates for the states of perfection and holy orders’ and the *‘Exhortation of Pope Pius XII to the Clergy of the Entire World’ *

The former can be read here and here

And yes that is my blog so I’m sorry about that 😊 But I assure you those documents are no less relevant today than they were 50 or 60 years ago, indeed if they had been followed it is unlikely that the problems of bad formation in the 70’s,80’s, 90’s and still today as well as the scandals that rock the Church would have happened to the degree they did or possibly at all.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top