Priestly Preparations

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

In the East, how does a Priest prepare for the Divine Liturgy? What amount of fasting, prayer, baking, etc. does the Priest have to do? Is it the same for a Bishop, regular Priest and a Priestmonk?

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Hello,

In the East, how does a Priest prepare for the Divine Liturgy? What amount of fasting, prayer, baking, etc. does the Priest have to do? Is it the same for a Bishop, regular Priest and a Priestmonk?

Would what you mean include the vesting, the preparation of the Eucharist, etc. Could you flesh it out a bit?

As for fasting, I do not believe that it is more than that required of the laity, though the emphasis would be more on the priest fulfilling all the canons and customs on the matter, which differ somewhat from tradition to tradition. Fr. Ambrose spoke of this some thread here (the extreme example being giving communion to those who had breakfast. Rather odd, I’ve never heard of that, and I go to an Antiocheam parish of almost all former Protestants (and a steady stream from the local Protestant colleges), converted in a former uniate parish, went and was married and baptized my oldest son in a established Russian (now OCA) cathedral). At the very least, for able adults that means absolute fasting from midnight at least.

If it’s not against the rules, I’d like to brag a bit. My older son (10) for the last month, has told me he doesn’t want breakfast, so he “can be hungry for Jesus just like you.” Now if I can just get my act together in the morning :coffeeread: so we can get there for Matins and the beginning of the service.

Btw in all Orthodox Churches (EO and OO as far as I know) the altar too must fast: no two DL on the same altar in a day. Part of the reason to make the whole community be together at one Eucharist. This is not only in the scattered “diaspora” but in Russia, Greece, etc. One of the reasons Orthodox parishes always tend to the small, family size. (In my own parish there is talk of splitting, as we have reatched around 200).

It is expected that the Faithful attend Vespers/Vigil/Matins the Saturday evening before/Matins the morning before DL. Many don’t. The priest must. In fact priests often do not attend wedding receptions for marriages they celebrated, because being after Vespers, DL has begun. The Faithful should also follow this, but for the priest it is mandatory. Btw this is the origin of Saturday mass, but here it is not “or” but “and.”

I myself was never much of a Vesper goer (just major feasts) until I saw Schindler’s list. When I looked at the scene of the Jews welcoming in the sabbath (the candle being the only color in the movie) I thought, “Gee, what a shame we don’t have anything like that…” at which the HS said “IDIOT, you DO!” I’ve been pretty regular since, although chronically late (not to the distance, though far, but getting it together to go).

The Service of Vespers, and Matins and DL are structured to go together (Vespers the symbolism is the OT (creation, fall, etc.), Matins the Resurrection, DL Christ’s life and the Liturgy in the Revelation of St. John. As such, at the very least the priest has to celebrate all. The term “office” is akolourtheia which means “degree, step, progression,” so the Horologion (=Brevary) is a progression which the priest must, and the laity should, pass through on to DL.

Prime is attached to Matins. The congregation prays Terce and Sext, while the priest completes his vesting and the prokemedia, hears last minute confessions, etc. I am not sure if the priest has to pray them in addition.

There are prayers that the Faithful are expected to say from the prayer book for preparation, with self examination and ideally confession (usually the more often you confess, the less emphasis put on a confession immediately before receiving, the less you do, the more the necessity of confessing immediately before. I have communed all over the world, and have always been asked, before given communion about my last confession).

The section of the DL of the antipons were originally prayed by the Faithful as they came to Church, but are now part of the DL proper. Most say the prayers of preparation now instead.

For the priest vesting and preparation of the Eucharist correspond to the Faithful’s prayers of preparation. There is a difference for the bishop, in fact this is the only difference between bishop, priest and hieromonk. There are prayers as each vestment is put on, in the case of the bishop including prayers said by the Congregation.

more…

 

[Isa_Almisry]

In the rite of Constantinople, there is a service, the Proskomedia, which the Priest does before the Divine Liturgy.

stseraphimschurch.org/articles/proskomedia-e.html

The other Rites have similar things, in Alexandria it is the service of chosing the lamb. In the rite of Constantinople, unfortunately, it is not done in sight of the congregation, but there is a growing movement of doing it periodically out amidst the congregation so they see it. It is one of our hidden treasures. I’d comment more, but I might go over limit. I was told by a Wester Rite Orthodox that it corresponds to the offetory in the West.

There should be no baking on the part of the priest. The Faithful should make the prosphera, there being services and prayers attached to that. Usually people do it for a memorial for someone etc.

Enough perhaps for now, any questions?

AND PLEASE ANY CLERGY (Fr. Ambrose) correct any errors in the above.

 

[jam070406]

In the rite of Constantinople, there is a service, the Proskomedia, which the Priest does before the Divine Liturgy.

stseraphimschurch.org/articles/proskomedia-e.html

The other Rites have similar things, in Alexandria it is the service of chosing the lamb. In the rite of Constantinople, unfortunately, it is not done in sight of the congregation, but there is a growing movement of doing it periodically out amidst the congregation so they see it. It is one of our hidden treasures. I’d comment more, but I might go over limit. I was told by a Wester Rite Orthodox that it corresponds to the offetory in the West.

There should be no baking on the part of the priest. The Faithful should make the prosphera, there being services and prayers attached to that. Usually people do it for a memorial for someone etc.

Enough perhaps for now, any questions?

AND PLEASE ANY CLERGY (Fr. Ambrose) correct any errors in the above.

Can you explain what goes on at Vespers? Do you recieve the Eucharist at Vespers? The Saturday Mass in the RCC is the same as Sunday just on a different day, we receive the Eucharist. I assume that Vespers is completely different than the DL? I appreciate your insight. thanks.

 

[bpbasilphx]

<<Can you explain what goes on at Vespers? Do you recieve the Eucharist at Vespers? The Saturday Mass in the RCC is the same as Sunday just on a different day, we receive the Eucharist. I assume that Vespers is completely different than the DL? I appreciate your insight. thanks.>>

The Roman Rite has Vespers, too. It’s part of the common heritage of the two churches. Vespers is the evening service that’s part of the Divine Office. (Ever hear of the Breviary or Liturgy of the Hours?)

The nature of the material for Vespers–Psalms, Readings, Prayers, Hymns–is the same in the two churches, though the actual material differs.

It’s a pity that the public celebration of the Divine Office has pretty much died out in Roman Catholic parishes; religious communities and especially monasteries are very faithful to this form of prayer.

Orthodox and some Byzantine Catholic parishes, however, have the Office, especially Vespers and the Little Hours, as a staple of devotion.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Can you explain what goes on at Vespers? Do you recieve the Eucharist at Vespers? The Saturday Mass in the RCC is the same as Sunday just on a different day, we receive the Eucharist. I assume that Vespers is completely different than the DL? I appreciate your insight. thanks.

Yes, that is how it is now with the Latins, but I believe at first it was the same thing as among the Orthodox, a preparation for DL (eg. in German Saturday is Samstag OR Sonnabend “Sunday Evening”). Part of the process among the Latins has been the extent that the Divine Office/Horologiona (Vespers, Compline, Midnight, Matins/Prime, Terce, Sext, None) is restricted to just the clergy. In the East it is, even among the worst Orthodox, still in common use, no matter how infrequent or reduced, among the Faithful/laity.

Ordinarily, no, you do not receive or celebrate Eucharist at Vespers. There are Vesperal Liturgies where the Eucharist is celebrated, but that is a combination of Vespers with DL following in connection. They are very common among the Antiocheans (developed from living under muslims, where you can’t expect to get the day off to go DL) but comes in handy here where not everyone in the neighborhood is going and its not a holiday (as in Orthodox countries). Eg. the Dormition was on a weekday, so the DL was a vigil one this year. The Birth of the Theotokos is on a Saturday, so we will have a Vespers Friday, and DL Saturday. The Vesperal Liturgy is not a “or” it’s an “and.”

The only DL that is more or less just a Vespers service is the DL of the Presanctified of St. Gregory Dialogist Pope of Rome. This is served during Great Lent, because the joy of the DL is not appropriate do celebrate on days of fasting. In it the Eucharist consecrated the preceeding Sunday (the Lamb) is distributed.

The step of Vespers is the participation of salvation history (OT), and the symbolism reflects that: it begins at Sunset, just as the first day of Creation in Genesis; the opening censing of the church the HS over the waters before creation; the reading of the psalms before the closed altar (Royal) doors (Adam repenting at the gates after his expulsion) etc. The are OT readings (unfortunately not usually done, except on featdays). The Vespers of the Presanctified has HEAVY doses of the OT.

DL is the NT. Matins bridges the two by celebrating the reading of the Resurrection Gospel, and the singing of the canon which bridges the two: the odes are based on the canticles of the OT, starting with the canticle of Miriam at the Red Sea, for example that for Pascha ode 1:

“Of old Thou didst bury the pursuing tyrant beneath the waves of the see. Now the children of those who were saved bury Thee beneath the Earth. But let us with the maidens cry to the Lord, for gloriously has he been glorified.”

and continuing on to the Magnificant (btw one of the reasons why we do not accept the IC, it disrupts this progression).

Then the DL begins when the deacon quotes the Psalm (119) to the priest “the time has come for the Lord to act” and the priest begins DL “Blessed is the Kingdom…”

So the OT prepares for the NT, fasting prepares for feasting (we have 4 fasting periods connected to major feasts), Vespers prepares for DL is the main idea.

Btw a number of Orthodox, given the choice of Old or New Calendar many want to keep the Old because of the nonsense of Christmas (or as I say, Greedfest). The US celebrates Christmas UNTIL Xmas, then nothing (one year I remember no Xmas carols on the radio Christmas afternoon).

If I go any further, I might have to go onto another thread.

in the meantime:
biserica.org/Publicatii/ServiceBook/Gvespers.htm
biserica.org/Publicatii/ServiceBook/Gvespers.htm
oca.org/OCchapter.asp?SID=2&ID=61
orthodoxwiki.org/Vespers

Western Rite Orthodox also have Vespers, which differs in the symbolism, but not the purpose, from the Eastern Rites.
spokaneorthodox.com/vespers.htm

As it is expected that the Faithful/laity also participate, in absence of priest a form exists to be said then (we do this whenever our priest’s plane is delayed and he doesn’t get back in time).
saintjonah.org/services/vespers.htm

 

[jam070406]

Yes, that is how it is now with the Latins, but I believe at first it was the same thing as among the Orthodox, a preparation for DL (eg. in German Saturday is Samstag OR Sonnabend “Sunday Evening”). Part of the process among the Latins has been the extent that the Divine Office/Horologiona (Vespers, Compline, Midnight, Matins/Prime, Terce, Sext, None) is restricted to just the clergy. In the East it is, even among the worst Orthodox, still in common use, no matter how infrequent or reduced, among the Faithful/laity.

Ordinarily, no, you do not receive or celebrate Eucharist at Vespers. There are Vesperal Liturgies where the Eucharist is celebrated, but that is a combination of Vespers with DL following in connection. They are very common among the Antiocheans (developed from living under muslims, where you can’t expect to get the day off to go DL) but comes in handy here where not everyone in the neighborhood is going and its not a holiday (as in Orthodox countries). Eg. the Dormition was on a weekday, so the DL was a vigil one this year. The Birth of the Theotokos is on a Saturday, so we will have a Vespers Friday, and DL Saturday. The Vesperal Liturgy is not a “or” it’s an “and.”

The only DL that is more or less just a Vespers service is the DL of the Presanctified of St. Gregory Dialogist Pope of Rome. This is served during Great Lent, because the joy of the DL is not appropriate do celebrate on days of fasting. In it the Eucharist consecrated the preceeding Sunday (the Lamb) is distributed.

The step of Vespers is the participation of salvation history (OT), and the symbolism reflects that: it begins at Sunset, just as the first day of Creation in Genesis; the opening censing of the church the HS over the waters before creation; the reading of the psalms before the closed altar (Royal) doors (Adam repenting at the gates after his expulsion) etc. The are OT readings (unfortunately not usually done, except on featdays). The Vespers of the Presanctified has HEAVY doses of the OT.

DL is the NT. Matins bridges the two by celebrating the reading of the Resurrection Gospel, and the singing of the canon which bridges the two: the odes are based on the canticles of the OT, starting with the canticle of Miriam at the Red Sea, for example that for Pascha ode 1:

“Of old Thou didst bury the pursuing tyrant beneath the waves of the see. Now the children of those who were saved bury Thee beneath the Earth. But let us with the maidens cry to the Lord, for gloriously has he been glorified.”

and continuing on to the Magnificant (btw one of the reasons why we do not accept the IC, it disrupts this progression).

Then the DL begins when the deacon quotes the Psalm (119) to the priest “the time has come for the Lord to act” and the priest begins DL “Blessed is the Kingdom…”

So the OT prepares for the NT, fasting prepares for feasting (we have 4 fasting periods connected to major feasts), Vespers prepares for DL is the main idea.

Btw a number of Orthodox, given the choice of Old or New Calendar many want to keep the Old because of the nonsense of Christmas (or as I say, Greedfest). The US celebrates Christmas UNTIL Xmas, then nothing (one year I remember no Xmas carols on the radio Christmas afternoon).

If I go any further, I might have to go onto another thread.

in the meantime:
biserica.org/Publicatii/ServiceBook/Gvespers.htm
biserica.org/Publicatii/ServiceBook/Gvespers.htm
oca.org/OCchapter.asp?SID=2&ID=61
orthodoxwiki.org/Vespers

Western Rite Orthodox also have Vespers, which differs in the symbolism, but not the purpose, from the Eastern Rites.
spokaneorthodox.com/vespers.htm

As it is expected that the Faithful/laity also participate, in absence of priest a form exists to be said then (we do this whenever our priest’s plane is delayed and he doesn’t get back in time).
saintjonah.org/services/vespers.htm

Thanks brother!

 

[bpbasilphx]

I forgot to mention (and I don’t recall seeing it elsewhere) the devotional preparation for receiving Holy Communion, recited by both priests and pious layment, consisting of at least the Canon for Holy Communion and certain fixed psalms and prayers (number and which ones vary in different prayer books).

There is a similar Office of Thanksgiving afterwards (text depends on which book you look in).

There were comprable Offices up through the Missal of 1962, but I’m not sure whether they were considered of precept or not.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

I forgot to mention (and I don’t recall seeing it elsewhere) the devotional preparation for receiving Holy Communion, recited by both priests and pious layment, consisting of at least the Canon for Holy Communion and certain fixed psalms and prayers (number and which ones vary in different prayer books).

There is a similar Office of Thanksgiving afterwards (text depends on which book you look in).

There were comprable Offices up through the Missal of 1962, but I’m not sure whether they were considered of precept or not.

I mentioned it in passing above, focused on the Faithful, but I don’t know if the priest also says the same Canon we do (I’m a layman) in addition to the vesting and prokomedia prayers.

I did forget to mention the Thanksgiving prayers, and the prayers of consumming the remaining gifts.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

Would what you mean include the vesting, the preparation of the Eucharist, etc. Could you flesh it out a bit?

I was inquiring about everything! Vesting, actually baking the bread, fasting, prayers, etc.,etc.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Hello,

I was inquiring about everything! Vesting, actually baking the bread, fasting, prayers, etc.,etc.

Give me a moment to pull up some links. I think on the prayer part we covered above, except I don’t know if the priests have the canon for communion in addition to the prayers for vesting and the preparation of the eucharist, and if the canon for the priest is the same. It would make sense if it was, and would be the normal thing (usually the only difference in these things is holding the priests to the full standard).

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

As for fasting, I do not believe that it is more than that required of the laity, though the emphasis would be more on the priest fulfilling all the canons and customs on the matter, which differ somewhat from tradition to tradition. Fr. Ambrose spoke of this some thread here (the extreme example being giving communion to those who had breakfast. Rather odd, I’ve never heard of that, and I go to an Antiocheam parish of almost all former Protestants (and a steady stream from the local Protestant colleges), converted in a former uniate parish, went and was married and baptized my oldest son in a established Russian (now OCA) cathedral). At the very least, for able adults that means absolute fasting from midnight at least.

Would this depend on the actual Church. I know a woman who is Serbian Orthodox, and for her to partake of the Eucharist, she must make dietary changes - for a whole week. Abstaining from certain foods (I think like dairy, meat, etc.) and fasting, etc. Due to the strictness of the preparations, she only partakes at Christmas, Easter and maybe one other time in the year. If a Priest had to go through all this and more, he’d be a paper thin vegan (a week fast every week!).

I can certainly relate and agree, for the laity, with an absolute fast from midnight on for partaking of the Eucharist - where the Liturgy is before noon; and perhaps a three hour fast when the Liturgy is in the evening.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

It’s a pity that the public celebration of the Divine Office has pretty much died out in Roman Catholic parishes; religious communities and especially monasteries are very faithful to this form of prayer.

Orthodox and some Byzantine Catholic parishes, however, have the Office, especially Vespers and the Little Hours, as a staple of devotion.

Hopefully this will come back. Part of the intention of the reforms of Vatican II was to allow the laity to be more able to pray the Liturgy of the Hours. I don’t know the statistics of the number of parishes before Vatican II that held Sunday Vespers, but nowadays the number is near zilch. I guess they figure that they’re good just getting them for an hour in the morning.

For my part, I head up a men’s group at my parish that as part of our meetings we always pray Vespers to get things started. I am hopeful that this upcoming Lent we will be able to lead the entire parish in the celebration of Vespers.

It might be also noted that the Little Hours that were popular before Vatican II have all but disappeared, as the laity (whoever actually does so) prays the Liturgy of the Hours.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

Part of the process among the Latins has been the extent that the Divine Office/Horologiona (Vespers, Compline, Midnight, Matins/Prime, Terce, Sext, None) is restricted to just the clergy. In the East it is, even among the worst Orthodox, still in common use, no matter how infrequent or reduced, among the Faithful/laity.

As I mentioned, part of the intention of Vatican II was to remove this barrier to make the Liturgy of the Hours more accessible to the laity, especially those who might not be able to pray all the hours.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

The way I think that a Latin parish would best spend the weekend:

Saturday Vigil beginning with the Sacrament of Confession and then a Vesperial Liturgy (combining of Vespers and Mass) and then praying the Rosary and Adoration until midnight. At midnight begin the Office of Readings (Matins) with all the extended readings and such and after that more adoration until dawn. The people will participate in the all-night vigil as they can - those with young children and the elderly probably can’t stay the whole night, but always a group is present for pray and adoration. At dawn pray Morning Prayer (Lauds) and then celebrate the Sunday Liturgy. When the full 3 hour Liturgy is over, everyone meets for the Sunday gathering - a kind of massive picnic until evening when the parish gathers once more to pray Vespers. Finally, after Vespers everyone goes home energized for another week.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

Btw in all Orthodox Churches (EO and OO as far as I know) the altar too must fast: no two DL on the same altar in a day. Part of the reason to make the whole community be together at one Eucharist. This is not only in the scattered “diaspora” but in Russia, Greece, etc. One of the reasons Orthodox parishes always tend to the small, family size. (In my own parish there is talk of splitting, as we have reatched around 200).

Maybe this has never been a problem in the Orthodox Church, I don’t know - but in the Latin Church at the peak of the last century, especially in the big cities (i.e., New York), Churches were overflowing. There wasn’t just one Church building for the whole city, but one for every neighborhood. On Sunday the Church was packed - standing room only. And it would be this way for two or three Masses.

To meet this need, the canons in the Latin Church read that two Masses may be celebrated by the same Priest per day (no mention of the altar), and an indult can be granted by the Bishop if the need arises.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Hello,

I was inquiring about everything! Vesting, actually baking the bread, fasting, prayers, etc.,etc.

Briefly, in chronological order leading to DL

Baking the bread: usually the priest doesn’t do that, but the Faithful do, either in turn, or on special occasions (memorials, etc.) the traditions vary a lot on this, to give an idea:
Prayers said in preparing prosphera (the bread used in eucharist)
maryofegypt.orthodoxy.ru/Prosphora/Prosphora.htm
a site on various recipes, aspects of the traditions of prosphera, etc.
prosphora.org/

Many churches on their web site have information on the prosphera, as it is an important ministry of the Faithful. Some things in common is the purest ingrediants are use, if possible, the tools in making it should be reserved for it, the loaves are stamped with a Cross and the inscription “IC XC NIKA” Jesus Christ Victory (the cry of the martyrs), maybe the large triangle for the Mother of God, the nine trianlges for the orders of angels and the saints, and some others triangles for memorials (living or departed). this is all for the next, the proskemedia.

The fasting we talked about above. For the priest I think it might be from Vespers, at least midnight. Maybe Fr. Ambrose can fill more in here.

The lay prayers before communion vary, some examples:
pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/communion.htm
prayerbook.riewe.com/p28.htm
saintbarbara.org/faith/prayerlife/prayer_communion.cfm

they all have in common prayers of the fathers, psalms, self examination, confession, asking of forgiveness from others, etc.

the same sites have the prayers after communion too.

I again am note sure to decree, if any, the vesting prayers and proskomedia replace these for the priest.

the clergy do say special prayers, the kairon, when they approach the sanctuary, before the icons,etc.

sourozh.org/web/The_Divine_Liturgy%2C_Page_1#entranceprayers

Btw, part of these prayers, as you will see, the priest asks forgiveness of the Faithful (he does so again during the DL, the response varies: we say “God forgives. Pray for us father.”)

The vesting goes with prayers (mostly psalm verses) said as each article of vestment is put on. The idea is to depersonalize the clergy and present the office he is performing

oca.org/OCchapter.asp?SID=2&ID=91
sourozh.org/web/The_Divine_Liturgy%2C_Page_1#vesting

The proskomeida (the Liturgy of preparation): the loaves are selected (in some traditions five, for the multiplication of loaves) and then there is a series of prayers, including Gospel verses and from the prophets (e.g. Isaih when the square IC XC NIKA is cut out and John verse on his testimony being true about the blood and water out of His side).

stseraphimschurch.org/articles/proskomedia-e.html
sourozh.org/web/The_Divine_Liturgy%2C_Page_1#prep

Unfortunately there was a better video from a Greek Church I believe in Florida (St. Stephen’s?), but I can’t find it now. A pariticle is set on the patten for the Theotokos (the Queen on the right, I think the verse is from the Song of Songs), one for the forerunner the 9 ranks of angels, the martyrs (listing a number), confessors (listing a number) our Fathers in the Faith (listing a number), our mothers in the Faith (listing a number), the hierarchs, etc. and then all the departed and living to be remembered. A particle. For each one (I’ve heard of services where the patriarch had to cut a thousand particles, naming the person as he placed his individual particle on the patten).

For some reason, I have always been touched by the fact that if the bishop who ordained the priest is living, he is the first commemorated of the living, and if departed, the first of the departed.

In any case, you end up with a patten that has particle representing the Church triumphant, suffering and militant on the pattern.

THEN the DL begins.

Hope that gives you some info.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

Briefly, in chronological order leading to DL

Baking the bread: usually the priest doesn’t do that, but the Faithful do, either in turn, or on special occasions (memorials, etc.) the traditions vary a lot on this, to give an idea:
Prayers said in preparing prosphera (the bread used in eucharist)
maryofegypt.orthodoxy.ru/Prosphora/Prosphora.htm
a site on various recipes, aspects of the traditions of prosphera, etc.
prosphora.org/

Many churches on their web site have information on the prosphera, as it is an important ministry of the Faithful. Some things in common is the purest ingrediants are use, if possible, the tools in making it should be reserved for it, the loaves are stamped with a Cross and the inscription “IC XC NIKA” Jesus Christ Victory (the cry of the martyrs), maybe the large triangle for the Mother of God, the nine trianlges for the orders of angels and the saints, and some others triangles for memorials (living or departed). this is all for the next, the proskemedia.

The fasting we talked about above. For the priest I think it might be from Vespers, at least midnight. Maybe Fr. Ambrose can fill more in here.

The lay prayers before communion vary, some examples:
pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/communion.htm
prayerbook.riewe.com/p28.htm
saintbarbara.org/faith/prayerlife/prayer_communion.cfm

they all have in common prayers of the fathers, psalms, self examination, confession, asking of forgiveness from others, etc.

the same sites have the prayers after communion too.

I again am note sure to decree, if any, the vesting prayers and proskomedia replace these for the priest.

the clergy do say special prayers, the kairon, when they approach the sanctuary, before the icons,etc.

sourozh.org/web/The_Divine_Liturgy%2C_Page_1#entranceprayers

Btw, part of these prayers, as you will see, the priest asks forgiveness of the Faithful (he does so again during the DL, the response varies: we say “God forgives. Pray for us father.”)

The vesting goes with prayers (mostly psalm verses) said as each article of vestment is put on. The idea is to depersonalize the clergy and present the office he is performing

oca.org/OCchapter.asp?SID=2&ID=91
sourozh.org/web/The_Divine_Liturgy%2C_Page_1#vesting

The proskomeida (the Liturgy of preparation): the loaves are selected (in some traditions five, for the multiplication of loaves) and then there is a series of prayers, including Gospel verses and from the prophets (e.g. Isaih when the square IC XC NIKA is cut out and John verse on his testimony being true about the blood and water out of His side).

stseraphimschurch.org/articles/proskomedia-e.html
sourozh.org/web/The_Divine_Liturgy%2C_Page_1#prep

Unfortunately there was a better video from a Greek Church I believe in Florida (St. Stephen’s?), but I can’t find it now. A pariticle is set on the patten for the Theotokos (the Queen on the right, I think the verse is from the Song of Songs), one for the forerunner the 9 ranks of angels, the martyrs (listing a number), confessors (listing a number) our Fathers in the Faith (listing a number), our mothers in the Faith (listing a number), the hierarchs, etc. and then all the departed and living to be remembered. A particle. For each one (I’ve heard of services where the patriarch had to cut a thousand particles, naming the person as he placed his individual particle on the patten).

For some reason, I have always been touched by the fact that if the bishop who ordained the priest is living, he is the first commemorated of the living, and if departed, the first of the departed.

In any case, you end up with a patten that has particle representing the Church triumphant, suffering and militant on the pattern.

THEN the DL begins.

Hope that gives you some info.

Thanks for all the information. There is a bit here for me to digest.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Hello,

Would this depend on the actual Church. I know a woman who is Serbian Orthodox, and for her to partake of the Eucharist, she must make dietary changes - for a whole week. Abstaining from certain foods (I think like dairy, meat, etc.) and fasting, etc. Due to the strictness of the preparations, she only partakes at Christmas, Easter and maybe one other time in the year. If a Priest had to go through all this and more, he’d be a paper thin vegan (a week fast every week!).

I can certainly relate and agree, for the laity, with an absolute fast from midnight on for partaking of the Eucharist - where the Liturgy is before noon; and perhaps a three hour fast when the Liturgy is in the evening.

Yes, it varies, not only with traditions, but frequency. Frequent confessors, for instance, can commune without confession immediately before every communion, those who confess less (like once a year) must do so before each communion. At our parish, we confess once a month at least, and usually commune every week.

Some traditions require the vegan fast three days/week before, then strict fast from midnight, etc.

Actually for an evening DL, the fast should be from noon, at least.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Hello,

The way I think that a Latin parish would best spend the weekend:

Saturday Vigil beginning with the Sacrament of Confession and then a Vesperial Liturgy (combining of Vespers and Mass) and then praying the Rosary and Adoration until midnight. At midnight begin the Office of Readings (Matins) with all the extended readings and such and after that more adoration until dawn. The people will participate in the all-night vigil as they can - those with young children and the elderly probably can’t stay the whole night, but always a group is present for pray and adoration. At dawn pray Morning Prayer (Lauds) and then celebrate the Sunday Liturgy. When the full 3 hour Liturgy is over, everyone meets for the Sunday gathering - a kind of massive picnic until evening when the parish gathers once more to pray Vespers. Finally, after Vespers everyone goes home energized for another week.

Actually, besides the Saturday Eucharist (unusual), and the devotions to midnight (usually only a little after Vespers, then some at home), Matins at midnight (usually we do at 8 AM, Russians do it right after Vespers) the length of the picnic (we knock off around 1 PM with coffee hour), and the Sunday Vespers (only during Lent in Church), that’s our usual weekend fare.