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CatholicLife
Guest
I’ve been reading about these guys and still don’t understand why they do not want latinization. Can someone please explain it a little bit more?
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
I think you have it backwards.
It is my understanding that this group not only wants to keep the latinizations but wants them to spread.
They have been excommunicated by the Ukranian Greek Catholic Church.
Since then they have made connections with the SSPX.
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Vico
Guest
Father Basil Kovpak of Archeparchy of Lviv of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, was excommunicated in November 2007 and is the founder of the Society of Saint Josephat Kuntsevych, which is dependent upon SSPX. He has written a book in Ukrainian entitled “Persecuted Tradition”. Father Basil Kovpak has possession of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic parish church in Ivano-Frankivsk.
The SSJK rejects the right of the Church authorities to make de-latinization reforms. SSJK opposes use of Slavonic instead of Ukrainian in the liturgy. Also they are opposed to liturgical de-latinization, such as abandoning: Eucharistic Adoration (Monstrance), the Rosary, and the Stations of the Cross.
http://www.catholicculture.org/news/features/index.cfm?recnum=54919
The Pidhirtsi Fathers excommunications:
http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2008/11/rome-upholds-excommunication-of.html
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CatholicLife
Guest
I forgot to add the “de” in de latinization.
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CatholicLife
Guest
But isn’t de latinization a good thing?
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ConstantineTG
Guest
I guess there’s always two sides of every issue. Many Eastern Catholics want to reclaim their traditions, while many who experiences Latinization now feels an attachment to the new traditions they have incorporated.
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Alexander_Roman
Guest
Dear Friends,
From my point of view, the issue with this group goes beyond that of Latinization. In fact, Ukrainian Orthodox (and Russian Orthodox) have accepted a number of paraliturgical and even liturgical services derived ultimately from the West, placed them in a Byzantine context and think no further about it (private recitation of the Rosary/rule, the Passia or reading of the Passion Gospels during Lent - popular in Russia too - way of the Cross etc.).
This group not only opposes this or that - it is causing internal discord within the Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Church and is behind an actual schism that has occurred in Ukraine within the UGCC. They are actively promoting disobedience to the UGCC primate, Patriarch Lubomyr Cardinal Husar and the like. Not a good thing anywhere.
In addition, their model of church unity is based on a kind of blending of all the East Slavic Churches into one Slavonic-language Rite. The problem is that the UGCC now prays, for the most part, in modern/anachronistic Ukrainian in its liturgies and offices. And the UGCC sees itself as a Particular Church quite apart from Moscow (for reasons that I think are obvious!
) Russian Catholics have ALWAYS been welcome in the UGCC and there was even a Catholic branch of the Old Rite Believers under the omophorion of the UGCC Metropolitan, the Blessed Andrew Sheptytsky - their priest was martyred under the Soviets and is a candidate for Catholic sainthood.
So the Priestly Society of St Josaphat’s vision of Catholic-Orthodox unity is of the “old hat” variety that is vigorously opposed by Ukrainian Greek-Catholics because of its desire to somehow submerge Ukrainian language and identity under their “Slavonic” (read: Russifying) ideal.
They promote the veneration of the Ukrainian Redemptorist martyrs, Bl. Nicholas Charnetsky and Bl. Basil Velichkovsky and others - but these saints would have NEVER followed the agenda of the St Josaphat society and were completely loyal to their primate at all times. And they were widely honoured as national heroes by both Catholics and Orthodox for refusing to submit to the Russian Church under the Soviet Union.
St Josaphat himself would have opposed the aims of this society were he alive today. Josaphat did preach unity with Rome, yes. But such unity was expressed, in his day, by being in union with the Eastern Catholic Metropolitan of Kyiv (only this Metropolitan commemorated the pope liturgically).
They are also very offensive to Orthodox Christians in many of their actions which they excuse by saying they “preach the truth.”
Well, so do we about that society . . .
Alex
From my point of view, the issue with this group goes beyond that of Latinization. In fact, Ukrainian Orthodox (and Russian Orthodox) have accepted a number of paraliturgical and even liturgical services derived ultimately from the West, placed them in a Byzantine context and think no further about it (private recitation of the Rosary/rule, the Passia or reading of the Passion Gospels during Lent - popular in Russia too - way of the Cross etc.).
This group not only opposes this or that - it is causing internal discord within the Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Church and is behind an actual schism that has occurred in Ukraine within the UGCC. They are actively promoting disobedience to the UGCC primate, Patriarch Lubomyr Cardinal Husar and the like. Not a good thing anywhere.
In addition, their model of church unity is based on a kind of blending of all the East Slavic Churches into one Slavonic-language Rite. The problem is that the UGCC now prays, for the most part, in modern/anachronistic Ukrainian in its liturgies and offices. And the UGCC sees itself as a Particular Church quite apart from Moscow (for reasons that I think are obvious!
) Russian Catholics have ALWAYS been welcome in the UGCC and there was even a Catholic branch of the Old Rite Believers under the omophorion of the UGCC Metropolitan, the Blessed Andrew Sheptytsky - their priest was martyred under the Soviets and is a candidate for Catholic sainthood.So the Priestly Society of St Josaphat’s vision of Catholic-Orthodox unity is of the “old hat” variety that is vigorously opposed by Ukrainian Greek-Catholics because of its desire to somehow submerge Ukrainian language and identity under their “Slavonic” (read: Russifying) ideal.
They promote the veneration of the Ukrainian Redemptorist martyrs, Bl. Nicholas Charnetsky and Bl. Basil Velichkovsky and others - but these saints would have NEVER followed the agenda of the St Josaphat society and were completely loyal to their primate at all times. And they were widely honoured as national heroes by both Catholics and Orthodox for refusing to submit to the Russian Church under the Soviet Union.
St Josaphat himself would have opposed the aims of this society were he alive today. Josaphat did preach unity with Rome, yes. But such unity was expressed, in his day, by being in union with the Eastern Catholic Metropolitan of Kyiv (only this Metropolitan commemorated the pope liturgically).
They are also very offensive to Orthodox Christians in many of their actions which they excuse by saying they “preach the truth.”
Well, so do we about that society . . .
Alex
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Aramis
Guest
The Rosary originates in the East, not the West, Alexander.
St. Dominic made it more popular, but it predates St. Dominic.
St. Dominic made it more popular, but it predates St. Dominic.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
You mean to tell me that the Rosay was not divinly handed onto St Dominic by Mary herself?
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Aramis
Guest
Not according to any Dominicans I know… just the command to say it daily!
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smad0142
Guest
Aramis could you pm me the Eastern history of the Rosary, with sources if possible.
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Aramis
Guest
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Alexander_Roman
Guest
Actually, you won’t get an argument from me here!
Assuming it came from the Egyptian Thebaid, we might also conclude that it went into the West through Cassian and the monastery on Lerins (as did all other elements of Coptic spirituality).
And please calle me “Alex!”
Cheers,
Alex
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