Priests and Collars

[the171]

Just a funny side note:

IT IS SO AWKWARD WHEN I SEE MY SD IN CIVVIES.

One time I was with a priest friend at a camp. He was in shorts, a t-shirt, and Chacos. I get words confused a lot. I said to him, “Oh! You’re in your skivvies!” He was surprised. I had to leave immediately after that because I was being called over. I learned later that skivvies=underwear. Ooops.

 

[NickD]

You might not have said it outright, but I think it was pretty much implied with your reference to a man and his wedding ring.

Well, no analogy is perfect

 

[dans0622]

For the United States, the particular law is as follows: "The National Conference of Catholic Bishops, in accord with the prescriptions of canon 284, hereby decrees that without prejudice to the provisions of canon 288, clerics are to dress in conformity with their sacred calling.

In liturgical rites, clerics shall wear the vesture prescribed in the proper liturgical books. Outside liturgical functions, a black suit and Roman collar are the usual attire for priests. The use of the cassock is at the discretion of the cleric.

In the case of religious clerics, the determinations of their proper institutes or societies are to be observed with regard to wearing the religious habit." usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/canon-law/complementary-norms/canon-284-clerical-garb.cfm

I am not sure what comparison there is to be made between a person who can’t wear some article of clothing, due to safety concerns, and a priest who happens to go to the grocery store. He’s not going to lose a finger because he’s wearing a cassock at the deli or meat section.

And, as far as Pope John Paul II is concerned–yes, he used common sense when he was out on the slopes or wherever else. But, let’s also recall that he said this in his 1982 Holy Thursday letter to priests, in the form of a prayer to our Blessed Lord: “Save us from ‘grieving your Spirit’… by whatever shows itself as a desire to hide one’s priesthood before men and to avoid all external signs of it, by whatever can in the end bring one to the temptation to run away, under the pretext of the ‘right to freedom’” (Part II, 4). miraclerosarymission.org/ltr1982.htm

Dan

 

[Oneofthewomen]

What is quoted here from the USCCB, based on dicussions with my Canon Law professor, can also be interpreted differently by each Ordinary.
For example, in my diocese, priests are "strongly encouraged to wear their “blacks” when “working”. That means during the week for office hours, for meetings, on Sundays for Mass, home/hospital visits, etc, but it is not REQUIRED!!

However, the question of whether or not a priest ***must always ***be in clericals is what we are talking about here.

And the answer to that is NO!!!

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE READ WHAT BR. JAY WROTE!

For the United States, the particular law is as follows: "The National Conference of Catholic Bishops, in accord with the prescriptions of canon 284, hereby decrees that without prejudice to the provisions of canon 288, clerics are to dress in conformity with their sacred calling.

In liturgical rites, clerics shall wear the vesture prescribed in the proper liturgical books. Outside liturgical functions, a black suit and Roman collar are the usual attire for priests. The use of the cassock is at the discretion of the cleric.

In the case of religious clerics, the determinations of their proper institutes or societies are to be observed with regard to wearing the religious habit." usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/canon-law/complementary-norms/canon-284-clerical-garb.cfm

I am not sure what comparison there is to be made between a person who can’t wear some article of clothing, due to safety concerns, and a priest who happens to go to the grocery store. He’s not going to lose a finger because he’s wearing a cassock at the deli or meat section.

And, as far as Pope John Paul II is concerned–yes, he used common sense when he was out on the slopes or wherever else. But, let’s also recall that he said this in his 1982 Holy Thursday letter to priests, in the form of a prayer to our Blessed Lord: “Save us from ‘grieving your Spirit’… by whatever shows itself as a desire to hide one’s priesthood before men and to avoid all external signs of it, by whatever can in the end bring one to the temptation to run away, under the pretext of the ‘right to freedom’” (Part II, 4). miraclerosarymission.org/ltr1982.htm

Dan

 

[aidanbradypop]

I talked with my former Bishop on this matter. Deacons in my Diocese are not allowed to wear the collar. They are to wear black clothing, but no collar. When they are performing their clerical functions, they are to wear their collar. If Fr_____ or Bishop_____ is eating at Red Lobster with a friend, then that is not a clerical function. It may be different in other Dioceses but that is how it is in Fargo. I have seen the Bishop at Sams Club in “street clothes” on a Friday afternoon with the Vicar of the Cathedral in “street clothes” as well.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

I talked with my former Bishop on this matter. Deacons in my Diocese are not allowed to wear the collar. They are to wear black clothing, but no collar. When they are performing their clerical functions, they are to wear their collar. If Fr_____ or Bishop_____ is eating at Red Lobster with a friend, then that is not a clerical function. It may be different in other Dioceses but that is how it is in Fargo. I have seen the Bishop at Sams Club in “street clothes” on a Friday afternoon with the Vicar of the Cathedral in “street clothes” as well.

Another very good point. In my diocese Permanant Deacons are forbidden to wear a Roman collar. When they are functioning as a Deacon outside of Mass, where they would be wearing an alb & stole or dalmmatic, they have no “official” uniform, except for their “Deacon pin”. The Trasitional Deacons may wear the collar.

 

[dans0622]

What is quoted here from the USCCB, based on dicussions with my Canon Law professor, can also be interpreted differently by each Ordinary.
For example, in my diocese, priests are "strongly encouraged to wear their “blacks” when “working”. That means during the week for office hours, for meetings, on Sundays for Mass, home/hospital visits, etc, but it is not REQUIRED!!

However, the question of whether or not a priest ***must always ***be in clericals is what we are talking about here.

And the answer to that is NO!!!

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE READ WHAT BR. JAY WROTE!

Hello,

There’s no need to break out the ALL CAPS treatment. I had read it. If there is any disagreement between what I said (quoted) and what “Br. Jay” said–I don’t know that there is–I’ll stick with my quoted material. As far as how to “interpret” the law, sure, there are some various possibilities regarding particular regulations. But, they should all make sure that the “usual” attire always remains the Roman collar/cassock. If they don’t, we aren’t dealing with “interpretations” but a quasi-dispensation (to put it kindly).

Dan

 

[Oneofthewomen]

The original question is this thread was whether or not a priest had to where clericals all the time.

She then told me that the priest was committing a grave sin because the Church “supposedly” teaches that all clerics (deacons, priests, bishops) are forbidden to wear street clothing and are required to either wear a cassock or a collar at all times to show that they are ordained clerics in the Church.

I have never really understood this concept, is my mother right or is she worng? And what is the official position of the Church in terms of clerical dress?

The answer to that question is NO.

Hello,
There’s no need to break out the ALL CAPS treatment. I had read it. If there is any disagreement between what I said (quoted) and what “Br. Jay” said–I don’t know that there is–I’ll stick with my quoted material. As far as how to “interpret” the law, sure, there are some various possibilities regarding particular regulations. But, they should all make sure that the “usual” attire always remains the Roman collar/cassock. If they don’t, we aren’t dealing with “interpretations” but a quasi-dispensation (to put it kindly).
Dan

Well, then you must have missed this part~

Twelfth: the diocesan bishop has the authority to regular what HIS priests wear while on duty, but not off duty.

This is what the OP was about. No one, not a Bishop, not a parishoner can tell a secular priest what he must or must not wear while he is ‘off duty’. And since a secular priest is not ‘on duty’ 24/7 can wear whatever he want to a party!

I am not really sure why this is so difficult for some people. I have no right what-so-ever to impose my beliefs on priestly garb. It is above my pay-grade. As long as the priest is following the regulations set forth by his Bishop or Superior, why is it any business at all of Joe or Mary Pew-sitter?

 

[dans0622]

The original question is this thread was whether or not a priest had to where clericals all the time. …

Well, then you must have missed this part~

This is what the OP was about. No one, not a Bishop, not a parishoner can tell a secular priest what he must or must not wear while he is ‘off duty’. And since a secular priest is not ‘on duty’ 24/7 can wear whatever he want to a party!

I am not really sure why this is so difficult for some people. I have no right what-so-ever to impose my beliefs on priestly garb. It is above my pay-grade. As long as the priest is following the regulations set forth by his Bishop or Superior, why is it any business at all of Joe or Mary Pew-sitter?

Hello,

I haven’t said that priests must wear clericals “all the time” so we are in agreement. I quoted the relevant law for the USA (which does obliquely answer the question in the OP) and gave a comment from a Pope, trying to provide a bit more context.

Regarding that # 12 of the other poster’s commentary: I did not miss that part. I thought it was irrelevant to what I said so I let it pass, even though I don’t agree with it.

I have not told anyone what to wear or tried to “impose my beliefs” on anyone. I find it curious that you suggest (based on what, I am not sure) that I am personally dictating to priests what they are to do when, at the same time, you approvingly quote a comment which tells bishops what they can and can’t do. Maybe I’m not part of the infamous “some people” and so you were not actually talking to me in your last two sentences. If so, please pardon my misunderstanding.

Thank you for your time.

Dan

 

[Prie_dieu]

I am sure many of you have seen the picture of the seminarians playing football in their cassocks and even one in his religious habit. The only time a cleric should not wear his ecclesiastical garb is during times of persecution where civil dress would assist him in avoiding detection.

Ad Jesum per Mariam!
Prie-Dieu.

 

[thunderboom]

I am sure many of you have seen the picture of the seminarians playing football in their cassocks and even one in his religious habit. The only time a cleric should not wear his ecclesiastical garb is during times of persecution where civil dress would assist him in avoiding detection.

Ad Jesum per Mariam!
Prie-Dieu.

Did you not just read the whole thread? When you’re a priest, you can wear your cassock while you play football and change your oil. You’re going to have some expensive stains! Until then, please don’t lay out blanket judgments of men who actually live the life. It’s not always easy.

When I’m in the seminary, lemme tell you, there’s no way I’m wearing that cassock for football. I love the cassock, can’t wait to wear it; but when I’m trying to catch passes there’s no way I’m wearing that thing.

 

[SKWill]

When I’m in the seminary, lemme tell you, there’s no way I’m wearing that cassock for football. I love the cassock, can’t wait to wear it; but when I’m trying to catch passes there’s no way I’m wearing that thing.

The only images I’ve ever seen of seminarians or priests playing football in their cassocks have been of real football – you know, association football (a.k.a. soccer)

 

[Prie_dieu]

Did you not just read the whole thread? When you’re a priest, you can wear your cassock while you play football and change your oil. You’re going to have some expensive stains! Until then, please don’t lay out blanket judgments of men who actually live the life. It’s not always easy.

The solution is simply to have a spare cassock for when the other is being cleaned. They are not that expensive. But I will note that I was speaking of ecclesiastical garb in general. As much as I dislike them, a suit and the collar would suffice for those in Orders.

And I am speaking with personal experience of day-to-day living attired in a cassock. It’s not that hard. Priests have managed it for centuries.

Ad Jesum per Mariam!
Prie-dieu.

 

[Prie_dieu]

The only images I’ve ever seen of seminarians or priests playing football in their cassocks have been of real football – you know, association football (a.k.a. soccer)

Of course. I would never argue that someone should wear a cassock whilst playing American Football.

But I also would never argue that someone should be playing American Football anyway.

As Jesum per Mariam!
Prie-dieu.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

You think that 209 US dollars is not a lot?
And that is for “ready-made” not custom fit, and for a polyester blend, not linen, cotton or silk.
A priest could easily buy 3 pairs of good dress slacks, and 3 shirts for the price of one cassock. And then there is the cost of cleaning. In some places, it could be as much as $25 each time you take it to the cleaners.

This topic comes up every now & then, and always there are people who want to put their opinions ahead of what Holy Mother Church has said.

No priest is required to wear clerical garb 24/7. It is up to the Ordinary to decide what happens in his diocese. As lay people, we can have opinions, but our opinions should never trump the directives laid out by the Bishop.

Clothes do not make the man!

The solution is simply to have a spare cassock for when the other is being cleaned. They are not that expensive. But I will note that I was speaking of ecclesiastical garb in general. As much as I dislike them, a suit and the collar would suffice for those in Orders.

And I am speaking with personal experience of day-to-day living attired in a cassock. It’s not that hard. Priests have managed it for centuries.

Ad Jesum per Mariam!
Prie-dieu.

 

[Prie_dieu]

You think that 209 US dollars is not a lot?
And that is for “ready-made” not custom fit, and for a polyester blend, not linen, cotton or silk.
A priest could easily buy 3 pairs of good dress slacks, and 3 shirts for the price of one cassock. And then there is the cost of cleaning. In some places, it could be as much as $25 each time you take it to the cleaners.

It’s not a price outside of what most priests can afford, no.

I have already clarified that when I speak of ecclesiastical dress I am not referring solely to cassocks. Slacks and shirts with the collar is acceptable. As long as he is easily distinguishable as a man of religion whilst walking down the high street. That is simply how I believe those in Orders or in Religion should conduct themselves.

The cost of cleaning?

Come now, really. Why go to such lengths to justify not wearing clerics over civies? For centuries a cleric wore clerical garb in his day-to-day living. Why is it in the 21st century people will go to such lengths to just lay them aside except for when Father is saying Mass or vising the sick?

This topic comes up every now & then, and always there are people who want to put their opinions ahead of what Holy Mother Church has said.

No priest is required to wear clerical garb 24/7. It is up to the Ordinary to decide what happens in his diocese. As lay people, we can have opinions, but our opinions should never trump the directives laid out by the Bishop.

Clothes do not make the man!

I am not saying a priest is going to hell, or even sinning at all, for not wearing clerical clothing 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. And I accept that the local Ordinaries have their set standards.

As you yourself said we can have an opinion. I have offered my opinion. Are you worried that I was not clear in doing so?

In my opinion those in Orders and and Religious should wear their clerical garb or religious habits at all times when they’re not showering, sleeping, swimming, etc.

Ad Jesum per Mariam!
Prie-dieu.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

It’s not a price outside of what most priests can afford, no.

I have already clarified that when I speak of ecclesiastical dress I am not referring solely to cassocks. Slacks and shirts with the collar is acceptable. As long as he is easily distinguishable as a man of religion whilst walking down the high street. That is simply how I believe those in Orders or in Religion should conduct themselves.

The cost of cleaning?

Come now, really. Why go to such lengths to justify not wearing clerics over civies? For centuries a cleric wore clerical garb in his day-to-day living. Why is it in the 21st century people will go to such lengths to just lay them aside except for when Father is saying Mass or vising the sick?

I am not saying a priest is going to hell, or even sinning at all, for not wearing clerical clothing 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. And I accept that the local Ordinaries have their set standards.

As you yourself said we can have an opinion. I have offered my opinion. Are you worried that I was not clear in doing so?

In my opinion those in Orders and and Religious should wear their clerical garb or religious habits at all times when they’re not showering, sleeping, swimming, etc.

Ad Jesum per Mariam!
Prie-dieu.

I guess it depends on where you live–I never see our priest in a cassock but most of the week I do see him in his black pants/shirt with collar-including the times he comes to our house for dinner. However on his day off, he is not in such-I am sure to avoid being bothered in the grocery store…he only gets one day off-and even that will be used up in sick calls at times…I don’t begrudge the man shopping in his jeans…

He is more of a man of God then some priest who are in their garb 24/7! Of course our diocese does not require him to do as such.

 

[L_Marshall]

I’ll just share two brief explanations from priest I know:

The first says:

If I ever go to the grocery store in my clericals, buying a gallon of milk takes an hour. Everyone you pass wants to talk or say hello or ask a question or get something blessed. When you get to the checkout line, the cashier always has a question about something related to the faith. I can save 55 minutes by wearing civvies.

I went out to dinner to a very Italian restaurant with another priest. He was originally in his cassock when I showed up at the rectory, but before we left he excused himself to change into a gingham shirt, sweater, and chinos. We I asked him about it, his response was “If you want to eat dinner in peace, I’ll dress like this. If not, every nonna and her family will want to come up for one reason or another”

 

[Prie_dieu]

Is it any wonder why Catholic parish life has suffered in the past few decades with so many priests that do not seem to wish to “deal” with the trappings of the priestly life? A priest has no right to complain about his position within a community.

And I cannot believe a priest would want to avoid answering a question about the faith, regardless of when and where it’s asked…

Ad Jesum per Mariam!
Prie-dieu.

 

[pollynova]

Is it any wonder why Catholic parish life has suffered in the past few decades with so many priests that do not seem to wish to “deal” with the trappings of the priestly life? A priest has no right to complain about his position within a community.

And I cannot believe a priest would want to avoid answering a question about the faith, regardless of when and where it’s asked…

Ad Jesum per Mariam!
Prie-dieu.

I think people need to see that priests need time to themselves too and to do things like go out to eat or just relax, for their own mental health.

When you see a priest at the grocery store, that’s really not the time to ask for spiritual guidance.