Priests are allowed to "look at the menu"?

[Rocks_91]

I read a story a while ago about a famous bishop “acknowledging” an attractive air-hostess in a flight and telling her that priests are “allowed to look at the menu, just not order anything”. (Maybe someone can provide the exact story.) I was saddened to read that a priest, who is supposed to be celibate and everyone’s “spiritual father”, thinks that it is ok to check out a woman. Doesn’t seem very holy to me. I would like to hear your opinions.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

I read a story a while ago about a famous bishop “acknowledging” an attractive air-hostess in a flight and telling her that priests are “allowed to look at the menu, just not order anything”. (Maybe someone can provide the exact story.) I was saddened to read that a priest, who is supposed to be celibate and everyone’s “spiritual father”, thinks that it is ok to check out a woman. Doesn’t seem very holy to me. I would like to hear your opinions.

That is typical man’s point of view.
Before answering, if you feel like it,

• please substitute the bishop for a married man. What do you think of the married man’s attitude?
• and now, substitute the bishop for an engaged or dating a girl man. then?
• and now, substitute the bishop for a single unmarried man. then?

I ask this not an exam but just to know how you feel and, I love to have opinions, the audience’s opinions.

I swear that I will tell mine later on.

 

[Rocks_91]

That is typical man’s point of view.
Before answering, if you feel like it,

• please substitute the bishop for a married man. What do you think of the married man’s attitude?
• and now, substitute the bishop for an engaged or dating a girl man. then?
• and now, substitute the bishop for a single unmarried man. then?

I ask this not an exam but just to know how you feel and, I love to have opinions, the audience’s opinions.

I swear that I will tell mine later on.

Pfaffenhoffen, I think it is utterly despicable for any man to “check out” a woman who is not his wife. Sexuality and beauty were created for marriage. If she’s not your wife, then you should never look at her in a way that you wouldn’t if it was your own sister. I know that we all suffer from concupiscence but to wilfully look at a woman in that manner is lust and goes against the ninth commandment which I believe includes any woman you are not married to.

I think this priest is setting a bad example.

 

[Saburo]

The story was probably a joke, or perhaps it really happened, but the bishop simply wanted to compliment the woman and made a joke due to the irony of a celibate man noticing an attractive woman. Since we don’t have the audio tape, we don’t know if it was creepy, staring, ickiness or “innocent priest with a sense of humor” like the one who used to jump rope with my sisters in front of our house on his way through the neighborhood. Priests don’t have to be serious all the time, and it is not a sin to notice beauty. I might tell a young girl she looks very pretty today, but that doesn’t mean I’m leering at her. It just means she looks pretty. What’s wrong with a compliment? Now, can I get some freaking peanuts?

 

[ProspectCard]

I would not feel comfortable judging someone on a “story” that is incomplete or that I could not fully recall.

 

[LemonAndLime]

That is typical man’s point of view.
Before answering, if you feel like it,

• please substitute the bishop for a married man. What do you think of the married man’s attitude?
• and now, substitute the bishop for an engaged or dating a girl man. then?
• and now, substitute the bishop for a single unmarried man. then?

I ask this not an exam but just to know how you feel and, I love to have opinions, the audience’s opinions.

I swear that I will tell mine later on.

Even if what you say about married men is acceptable (which it isn’t) Bishops and Priests are expected to be held to a higher standard than the laity, because of their vocation.

However, I suspect this may have been part of a joke rather than an actual story.

 

[purplesunshine]

Even a nun I know will admit when a guy is hot. she even has her own preferences. She’s devoted to Jesus but not blind. In the same way i know my boyfriend thinks im the most beautiful girl alive. I am not at all threatened when he comliments another girls hair, skin, etc. Men notice,
he’d never be crude, though. Thats below him. As for me…his eyes get me and i find it incresingly hard to find a single appealing thing about other men. And thats a woman’s reaction…having 3 brothers i think this is an area where women need to get real. To notice is NOT wrong…staring, cat calls…etc. are.

However this seems like a cheesy punchline to a joke expected to be about airline food.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I read a story a while ago about a famous bishop “acknowledging” an attractive air-hostess in a flight and telling her that priests are “allowed to look at the menu, just not order anything”. (Maybe someone can provide the exact story.) I was saddened to read that a priest, who is supposed to be celibate and everyone’s “spiritual father”, thinks that it is ok to check out a woman. Doesn’t seem very holy to me. I would like to hear your opinions.

I doubt a bishop would ever say such a thing. people will come with anything to hurt the CC.

 

[eegardner]

To give the benefit of doubt. I would think this would be a situation where he could appreciate the beauty of one of God’s creations without lustful thoughts. And the comment about looking at the menu was just light-hearted humour.

However any human is susceptible to lustful thoughts. The problem comes when you realize where your thoughts are going and you do not correct the them. And of course “ordering from the menu” would be acting on those thoughts. Priests are not perfect, if they were they would not need to go to confession. Yes, priests are held to a higher standard, but they are still imperfect and sinful human beings. Even pope John Paul II went to weekly confession.

Father John Riccardo, host of the radio show ‘Christ is the Answer’, said that one time a priest during confession said that he had never lusted. Father John’s response was “are you dead?”

The best we (meaning every human on earth) can do is properly handle our situation and do our best to avoid the temptation.

 

[Phemie]

I’m female and have been married for 37 years but I’m neither dead nor blind so I can appreciate the sight of a good looking man. That doesn’t mean I have any desire to bed him or treat him like a piece of meat but to say I don’t notice would be a blatant lie. I can also appreciate the beauty of other women.

I don’t imagine my husband is any different, although his definition of ‘good looking man’ might differ from mine, just like my definition of ‘beautiful woman’ probably differs from his.

 

[eegardner]

I’m female and have been married for 37 years but I’m neither dead nor blind so I can appreciate the sight of a good looking man. That doesn’t mean I have any desire to bed him or treat him like a piece of meat but to say I don’t notice would be a blatant lie. I can also appreciate the beauty of other women.

I don’t imagine my husband is any different, although his definition of ‘good looking man’ might differ from mine, just like my definition of ‘beautiful woman’ probably differs from his.

Very well said! It’s refreshing to get an honest female opinion.

 

[puzzleannie]

I read a story a while ago about a famous bishop .

if you don’t have a link to a reliable source, not just an “amusing anecdote” then it did not happen so why worry about it?

 

[bethanysamuel]

I think they see women as temples of the Holy Spirit

 

[jmcrae]

That is typical man’s point of view.
Before answering, if you feel like it,

• please substitute the bishop for a married man. What do you think of the married man’s attitude?
• and now, substitute the bishop for an engaged or dating a girl man. then?
• and now, substitute the bishop for a single unmarried man. then?

I ask this not an exam but just to know how you feel and, I love to have opinions, the audience’s opinions.

I swear that I will tell mine later on.

In every case, he comes out looking like a lout. Not sure if that’s what you were hoping for.

 

[jmcrae]

if you don’t have a link to a reliable source, not just an “amusing anecdote” then it did not happen so why worry about it?

Good point.

 

[maryjk]

I read a story a while ago about a famous bishop “acknowledging” an attractive air-hostess in a flight and telling her that priests are “allowed to look at the menu, just not order anything”. (Maybe someone can provide the exact story.) I was saddened to read that a priest, who is supposed to be celibate and everyone’s “spiritual father”, thinks that it is ok to check out a woman. Doesn’t seem very holy to me. I would like to hear your opinions.

Maybe you could provide the exact story. I wouldn’t get saddened over “something, someone said” before I knew the story was true.

 

[Newbie2]

Also important, methinks, is to carefully define “check out”. If ***any ***man looks at a woman and merely appreciates her beauty, that would seem to be OK. To talk about it is OK too, in the proper context. “I was on a flight the other day and one of the flight attendants looked like she just walked off a movie set. She should be a model or an actress”.

It may be a subtle difference, but to say she “was hot” brings up a different context, does it not?

Priests have the duty not to give the appearance of scandal, even more than the rest of us. IF a priest is crowing on about this hot flight attendant, even though he may not be referring to his (apparent or not) desires in regard to her, it gives the appearance that he is thinking inappropriately.

 

[Rocks_91]

Maybe you could provide the exact story. I wouldn’t get saddened over “something, someone said” before I knew the story was true.

Hmm, apparently the story came from a talk given by Bishop Fulton Sheen.
Fulton Sheen:

About eight years ago I was on a plane, going from New York to Chicago, and as the plane took off, the stewardess sat down alongside me. She was a ravishingly beautiful girl.

Celibacy doesn’t blind us, you know. I can look at the menu without ordering.

She said, “Do you remember me?” I said, “No, I don’t. I ought to, but I don’t.”

“Well,” she said, “Two years ago on this plane I sat with you for 20 minutes, and I remember every word you said.”

“What did I say?”

“Well, you began by saying: ‘You are a very beautiful girl. Did you know that of all the gifts that God gives, the one that he gets back last and least of all, is the gift of beauty? He gives money; owners use it for the poor. He gives the gift of song, and people sing for his glory. But too often, when God gives beauty, he gets back nothing but a pile of old bones. So, inasmuch as you are so exceptionally endowed, why don’t you give your beauty to people who have never seen anything beautiful?’ That’s what you said.”

She said: “I’ve had two years to think it over, and now I’m ready to do anything.”

“When?”

“Now.”

“All right. Come to my office, and I will tell you where you will go.”

She said, “Tell me now. I’m ready to go.”

“All right. You’re going to a leper colony in Vietnam.”

So I sent her to a leper colony in Vietnam. She has a little jeep, drives around the villages and searches, particularly under bridges, because when lepers are driven out of the villages, they hide under the bridges. And then she takes them to a leprosarium, where a doctor cares for these people.

And in one of her letters she said: “I do not know whether they ever think that they are ever looking at anything beautiful, but I know that I am: the gratitude of these good people.”

avalon44.tripod.com/fr/3k.htm

Hmmm, that puts it into a different perspective. Not sure though what he means by “I can look at the menu without ordering.” If he’s saying that he can look at a girl as a sister in Christ, then that’s perfectly ok.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

I read a story a while ago about a famous bishop “acknowledging” an attractive air-hostess in a flight and telling her that priests are “allowed to look at the menu, just not order anything”. (Maybe someone can provide the exact story.) I was saddened to read that a priest, who is supposed to be celibate and everyone’s “spiritual father”, thinks that it is ok to check out a woman. Doesn’t seem very holy to me. I would like to hear your opinions.

Your thinking of Archbishop Fulton Sheen, the story wasn’t the least bit lecherous,

here is the talk

The Second Kind of Love

Now we come to the second Greek word for love. You all know it, everyone. It is philia. You know philia, because you know Philadelphia. Adelphos in Greek is brother, philia is love. Hence, Philadelphia is the city of brotherly love. Philanthropic, philia, love, anthropos, man: love of humanity.

Philia is not a love of person to person. Philia is a love for all humanity, regardless of race, creed, color, simply because people are made to the image and likeness of God. That is philia.

Now you will say: “But I can’t like everyone.” That’s true. Because liking is in the emotions, in the feeling. But we can love everyone, because love is in the will, and it can be commanded. Hence our Blessed Lord said: “A new commandment I give you, that you love one another.”

You understand now the difference between liking and loving. I can make it a little clearer this way. I don’t like chicken. Monsignor had chicken for dinner one day. But if you invited me to dinner, and you had only chicken, and you would have been very embarrassed if I didn’t eat, I would eat the chicken. I would love it, because I could command myself to eat it. That’s the difference between liking and loving. We may not be able to like everyone, but we can love them, we can get above our emotional attitudes.

I once asked a missionary in the Pacific islands what was the greatest virtue of the people. “Well,” he said, “I can tell you the greatest virtue in terms of the greatest vice. It is the sin of kai-po, the sin of eating alone. They would go without food for three or four days, until they found someone to share it.” That is philia.

I told you about this friend of mine who was 14 years in a Communist prison, and he was so much beaten by the Communists that he developed lung trouble and tuberculosis, and was considered at one time the sickest man in the prison. A new prisoner was brought in, who hid in his heel a lump of sugar. He took the lump of sugar out of his heel in prison, and said to the other prisoners, “Who needs this most?” And they said: “Give it to Richard Wurmbrand.”

It was given to my friend, and he said, “I immediately thought of others who needed that sugar. I hadn’t seen sugar in six years. But I put the sugar on the bed next to me.”

Two years later, that sugar had gone the rounds of all the prisoners, and came back again to his bed. And then he started it on another round. Imagine all these victims of the Communist persecution, in their adversity, being so devoted one to another.

About eight years ago I was on a plane, going from New York to Chicago, and as the plane took off, the stewardess sat down alongside me. She was a ravishingly beautiful girl.

Celibacy doesn’t blind us, you know. I can look at the menu without ordering.

She said, “Do you remember me?” I said, “No, I don’t. I ought to, but I don’t.”

“Well,” she said, “Two years ago on this plane I sat with you for 20 minutes, and I remember every word you said.”

“What did I say?”

“Well, you began by saying: ‘You are a very beautiful girl. Did you know that of all the gifts that God gives, the one that he gets back last and least of all, is the gift of beauty? He gives money; owners use it for the poor. He gives the gift of song, and people sing for his glory. But too often, when God gives beauty, he gets back nothing but a pile of old bones. So, inasmuch as you are so exceptionally endowed, why don’t you give your beauty to people who have never seen anything beautiful?’ That’s what you said.”

She said: "I’ve had two years to think it over, and now I’m ready to do anything."

“When?”

“Now.”

“All right. Come to my office, and I will tell you where you will go.”

She said, “Tell me now. I’m ready to go.”

"All right. You’re going to a leper colony in Vietnam."

**So I sent her to a leper colony in Vietnam. She has a little jeep, drives around the villages and searches, particularly under bridges, because when lepers are driven out of the villages, they hide under the bridges. And then she takes them to a leprosarium, where a doctor cares for these people.

And in one of her letters she said: “I do not know whether they ever think that they are ever looking at anything beautiful, but I know that I am: the gratitude of these good people.”**

This is philia, the second kind of love.

 

[Brendan]

The ‘look at the menu’ analogy does help describe it well.

We, as Catholic, abstain from meat during Lenten Fridays, and often at other times.

But seeing a Filet on the menu does not, of necessity, inspire the sin of Gluttony nor of Disobedience.

It does, in essence, sharpen the gift of abstenation. Priestly celibecy is a gift both given by God and offered to God in return.

It is a form of fasting, what Aquinas described as the forgoing of one natural good for the sake of a greater supernatural good.

Like the steak on the menu, it reminds us of what natural good we are giving up for the sake of supernatural good. Likewise the encounter between +Sheen and the stewardess. If properly handled by the will, it serves not a driver towards sin, but as a recognition of what natural good is being fasting from. It tempers the will.