Priests are allowed to "look at the menu"?

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Even a nun I know will admit when a guy is hot. she even has her own preferences. She’s devoted to Jesus but not blind. In the same way i know my boyfriend thinks im the most beautiful girl alive. I am not at all threatened when he comliments another girls hair, skin, etc. Men notice,
he’d never be crude, though. Thats below him. As for me…his eyes get me and i find it incresingly hard to find a single appealing thing about other men. And thats a woman’s reaction…having 3 brothers i think this is an area where women need to get real. To notice is NOT wrong…staring, cat calls…etc. are.

However this seems like a cheesy punchline to a joke expected to be about airline food.
Agreed,

I don’t think it was wrong for the bishop or any other individual to acknowledge an attractive person. God created them as such so as long as there were no impure thoughts or crude behavior occuring I don’t believe anything wrong happened.

When my wife and I are out in public or watching TV we have pointed out attractive people to each other. I don’t get mad when she does and she doesn’t mind when I do it because we know we are faithful to one another and someone else’s physical attractiveness won’t change that.
 
I find the whole “menu” analogy a little off-putting - as if, under some other circumstance, I could be “given to” someone, like a dish from a menu. :confused:

Even when I’m with my husband, it’s a mutual sharing - he is not “consuming” me like a meal; nor is he “fasting from” me when we are in a period of abstinence due to illness or some other reason - the sharing takes on a different quality, but it’s not anything like eating a meal, or looking at a menu.
 
I find the whole “menu” analogy a little off-putting - as if, under some other circumstance, I could be “given to” someone, like a dish from a menu. :confused:

Even when I’m with my husband, it’s a mutual sharing - he is not “consuming” me like a meal; nor is he “fasting from” me when we are in a period of abstinence due to illness or some other reason - the sharing takes on a different quality, but it’s not anything like eating a meal, or looking at a menu.
👍

I never knew you were female! 😊
 
I find the whole “menu” analogy a little off-putting - as if, under some other circumstance, I could be “given to” someone, like a dish from a menu. :confused:

Even when I’m with my husband, it’s a mutual sharing - he is not “consuming” me like a meal; nor is he “fasting from” me when we are in a period of abstinence due to illness or some other reason - the sharing takes on a different quality, but it’s not anything like eating a meal, or looking at a menu.
In this case I honestly think you’re over analyzing. To me it’s just a saying and simply means “just because I’m X doesn’t mean I can’t do X, Y or Z”. Absolutely no relation to consuming or being handed to someone to consume.
 
I reject the story unless it’s verifiable.

That’s not too much to ask for.

We should not push and discuss something like this that’s not verifiable.

Before you know it…all the viewers will walk away assuming it’s fact.
 
I reject the story unless it’s verifiable.

That’s not too much to ask for.

We should not push and discuss something like this that’s not verifiable.

Before you know it…all the viewers will walk away assuming it’s fact.
Here you go:

youtube.com/watch?v=ip060HngcnY&feature=related

It’s really no big deal. Bishop Sheen is known for his humor. Such a holy man would never give any woman the “once over” or encourage such a thing. He was just admiring a beautiful woman and there is nothig sinful about that.
 
Hmmm, that puts it into a different perspective. Not sure though what he means by “I can look at the menu without ordering.” If he’s saying that he can look at a girl as a sister in Christ, then that’s perfectly ok. :o 🙂
Perhaps this is a good time for you to reflect if this statement:
*" I think it is utterly despicable for any man to “check out” a woman who is not his wife. Sexuality and beauty were created for marriage. If she’s not your wife, then you should never look at her in a way that you wouldn’t if it was your own sister. I know that we all suffer from concupiscence but to wilfully look at a woman in that manner is lust and goes against the ninth commandment which I believe includes any woman you are not married to.

I think this priest is setting a bad example. "*

Was one of those inappropriate judgements we’re told not to make…
 
Perhaps this is a good time for you to reflect if this statement:
*" I think it is utterly despicable for any man to “check out” a woman who is not his wife. Sexuality and beauty were created for marriage. If she’s not your wife, then you should never look at her in a way that you wouldn’t if it was your own sister. I know that we all suffer from concupiscence but to wilfully look at a woman in that manner is lust and goes against the ninth commandment which I believe includes any woman you are not married to.

I think this priest is setting a bad example. "*

Was one of those inappropriate judgements we’re told not to make…
I think it’s a natural first reaction, actually - and even if it were Bishop Sheen, I’d still feel uncomfortable with him evaluating my body parts as items on a “menu”.
 
I think it’s a natural first reaction, actually - and even if it were Bishop Sheen, I’d still feel uncomfortable with him evaluating my body parts as items on a “menu”.
I don’t think that’s a natural first reaction at all. I think immediate conclusion that something is a sin is a sanctimonious and self-aggrandizing reaction which doesn’t even consider the possible other context which was so clearly missing. We have only to look up the catechism section on judging to see that certainty of sin in others where there can be none is condemned by the church.

If you’re not comfortable being looked at, however, they do make all sorts of great hijaabs, burkas, or veils which can be worn. In catholicism, however, we recognize that:
  1. people are made by God and we are all beautiful
  2. it is not wrong to appreciate the fullness of God’s beautiful creations, provided that it is not sexual or lewd in nature (in other words, your twisting the analogy to mean that Bishop Sheen was looking at specific body parts “as items on a menu” would fall under the inappropriate category, because we cannot break down the wholeness of God’s creation into parts. Bishop Sheen understood this very clearly, so you have quite clearly misinterpreted what he meant)
 
Here you go:

youtube.com/watch?v=ip060HngcnY&feature=related

It’s really no big deal. Bishop Sheen is known for his humor. Such a holy man would never give any woman the “once over” or encourage such a thing. He was just admiring a beautiful woman and there is nothig sinful about that.
Thanks for posting this clip. Bishop Sheen was just making a joke, and quite well I might add. Bishop Sheen is one of the funniest men I have ever seen speak.

I will add what I have been told by a priest too though. Father told me the first look may be an accident and nothing to worry about. A second glance might rise to the level off a venial sin. If a man lets his imagination wonder it could even rise to the level of mortal sin. One poster alluded to the difference between men and women. There is definitely a double standard and this is not right. Men should be held to the same standard as women, we should all try and do our best in this regard. And a priest will be held to an even higher standard because he is the shepherd of a parish and so many others would be scandalised. But Bishop Sheen was clearly just joking, and I thought it was very funny.
 
I think it’s a natural first reaction, actually - and even if it were Bishop Sheen, I’d still feel uncomfortable with him evaluating my body parts as items on a “menu”.
I don’t think it’s meant that way. The common expression used by those who are told they shouldn’t be looking at a member of the opposite sex because they are married: “Just because you’re on a diet doesn’t mean you can’t look at the menu.” Just because you’re married - or celibate – doesn’t mean you can’t look at or appreciate the beauty of a member of the opposite sex. Doesn’t mean you’re reducing them to their body parts or comparing them to a plate of filet mignon and chanterelles.
 
I don’t think it’s meant that way. The common expression used by those who are told they shouldn’t be looking at a member of the opposite sex because they are married: “Just because you’re on a diet doesn’t mean you can’t look at the menu.” Just because you’re married - or celibate – doesn’t mean you can’t look at or appreciate the beauty of a member of the opposite sex. Doesn’t mean you’re reducing them to their body parts or comparing them to a plate of filet mignon and chanterelles.
I’m probably just way too literal-minded for an expression like that - you should see what’s going through my mind with the “on a diet” expression. :rolleyes: :eek:
 
AB Sheen was the Ordinary of my diocese and is almost a “folk-hero” here. I have read many of my books, and have talked to priests who served under him, his sense of humor was legendary!

As a married woman, ***and a chef, ***😉
this is actually one of my favorite expressions!

I find it un-natural & un-healthy to think once someone is married, or committed to celebacy, that they should not longer look at or appreciate the beauty of anyone else. Actually, if you really think about it, we are all made in the image & likeness of God, so maybe when I see that really handsome guy who makes my head turn, it’s just God’s way of reminding me that He is everywhere!! 😛
 
seriously people,
thinking someone is beautiful≠wanting to shag them
 
Perhaps this is a good time for you to reflect if this statement:
*" I think it is utterly despicable for any man to “check out” a woman who is not his wife. Sexuality and beauty were created for marriage. If she’s not your wife, then you should never look at her in a way that you wouldn’t if it was your own sister. I know that we all suffer from concupiscence but to wilfully look at a woman in that manner is lust and goes against the ninth commandment which I believe includes any woman you are not married to.

I think this priest is setting a bad example. "*

Was one of those inappropriate judgements we’re told not to make…
Consider, what if the person in the story was your own sister.

“My sister sat down next to me. She is a ravishingly beautiful girl.
Familial relations don’t blind us, you know. I can look at the menu without ordering.”

Doesn’t sound too good, does it? So you can forgive me for having reservations. Yet, Christ called the whole community to live as brothers and sisters in spirit. And I think it IS wrong to “admire” a person’s beauty who is not your spouse. A woman’s or man’s beauty should have no bearing on anyone who is not their spouse.

Now, in this story, I’m not sure what the bishop’s intentions were when he said that, so, yes, I was wrong to jump to conclusions, but I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt.
 
Consider, what if the person in the story was your own sister.

“My sister sat down next to me. She is a ravishingly beautiful girl.
Familial relations don’t blind us, you know. I can look at the menu without ordering.”

Doesn’t sound too good, does it?
I do have several sisters, and they ARE attractive. It’s the reason I own a shotgun (that’s humor, for those who are going to rashly judge that I’m sinning by joking about the possibility of shooting someone). There’s nothing wrong with noting that my sisters are attractive and talking with the younger ones along the way about why this can present them problems with opportunistic guys.
So you can forgive me for having reservations.
I’m not your confessor, nor do I judge you. I merely highlighted that you should check your statement about the bishop against what the catechism says about making rash judgements. Whether or not you have offended truth, as the Catechism puts it, is a matter of your own formation of conscience.
And I think it IS wrong to “admire” a person’s beauty who is not your spouse. A woman’s or man’s beauty should have no bearing on anyone who is not their spouse.
I assume, then, that you can present us with church teaching that says it is wrong to think that someone is attractive? Otherwise I have to reject this as a false personal teaching and not one that has any magisterial authority.
Now, in this story, I’m not sure what the bishop’s intentions were when he said that, so, yes, I was wrong to jump to conclusions, but I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt.
The only thing I was pointing out is that you stated:
  1. The action was dispicable (calling a woman into ministry to lepers in Vietnam is not, generally, considered dispicable)
  2. Was a lustful action and a sin against the ninth commandment (basically, you judged a person as guilty of violating grave matter when they were not)
  3. That this bishop was setting a bad example (scandalizing the bishop)
I hope you can understand how this sort of judgement against a BISHOP is wrong, particularly when you don’t have the full story.

So let’s look at the Catechism, under the section of offenses against truth:

**2477 Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury.[277] He becomes guilty:
  • of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor**;

    2478 To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor’s thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way:
    Every good Christian ought to be more ready to give a favorable interpretation to another’s statement than to condemn it
    . But if he cannot do so, let him ask how the other understands it.
Basically, Rock, the church REQUIRES that you give the benefit of the doubt, particularly in a situation where you don’t know the full story.

I’m not judging you, Rock, I’m merely giving you Church teaching as food for thought in advance of the next time you hear a partial story and are tempted to declare that you think someone is sinning.

More on the subject of rash judgements can be found on THIS thread.
 
The only thing I was pointing out is that you stated:
  1. The action was dispicable (calling a woman into ministry to lepers in Vietnam is not, generally, considered dispicable)
  2. Was a lustful action and a sin against the ninth commandment (basically, you judged a person as guilty of violating grave matter when they were not)
  3. That this bishop was setting a bad example (scandalizing the bishop)
I hope you can understand how this sort of judgement against a BISHOP is wrong, particularly when you don’t have the full story.
If you had read my post, you would know that what I said was “It is despicable for any man (in reply to an earlier post, not specifically referring to the bishop) to look at a woman he is not married to as anything other than a sister in Christ and to do otherwise would be a sin”

And although I did say The bishop is setting a bad example, I meant that assuming the bishop thinks that it is acceptable, then he’s setting a bad example. I think it’s really unfair of you to accuse me of scandalizing the bishop. 🤷
 
If you had read my post, you would know that what I said was “It is despicable for any man (in reply to an earlier post, not specifically referring to the bishop) to look at a woman he is not married to as anything other than a sister in Christ and to do otherwise would be a sin”

And although I did say The bishop is setting a bad example, I meant that assuming the bishop thinks that it is acceptable, then he’s setting a bad example. I think it’s really unfair of you to accuse me of scandalizing the bishop. 🤷
once again
thinking someone is absolutely beautiful≠wanting to shag them
Is it wrong to admire God’s handiwork?
 
once again
thinking someone is absolutely beautiful≠wanting to shag them
Is it wrong to admire God’s handiwork?
I don’t know. You tell me.

This is a parable by St Francis of Assisi
St Francis of Assisi:
A certain pious King sent two messengers successively to the Queen with a communication from himself. The first messenger returned and brought an answer from the Queen, which he delivered exactly. But of the Queen herself he said nothing because he had always kept his eyes modestly cast down and had not raised them to look at her.

The King receives the two messengers
The second messenger also returned. But after delivering in a few words the answer of the Queen, he began to speak warmly of her beauty. “Truly, my lord,” he said, “the Queen is the most fair and lovely woman I have ever seen, and thou art indeed happy and blessed to have her for thy spouse.”

At this the King was angry and said: “Wicked servant, how did you dare to cast your eyes upon my royal spouse? I believe that you may covet what you have so curiously gazed upon.”

Then he commanded the other messenger to be recalled, and said to him: “What do you think of the Queen?”

He replied, “She listened very willingly and humbly to the message of the King and replied most prudently.”

But the Monarch again asked him, “But what do you think of her countenance? Did she not seem to you very fair and beautiful, more so than any other woman?”

The servant replied, “My lord, I know nothing of the Queen’s beauty. Whether she be fair or not, it is for thee alone to know and judge. My duty was only to convey thy message to her.”

The King rejoined, “You have answered well and wisely. You who have such chaste and modest eyes shall be my chamberlain. From the purity of your eyes I see the chastity of your soul. You are worthy to have the care of the royal apartments confided to you.”

Then, turning to the other messenger, he said: “But you, who have such unmortified eyes, depart from the palace. You shall not remain in my house, for I have no confidence in your virtue.
 
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