Priests are allowed to "look at the menu"?

[EasterJoy]

Reading this thread almost makes me furious. OK, not exactly. But it’s basically pointless to keep on arguing. Rock_91 seems to want to imply that basically every time a man looks at a woman (that is not his wife) he sins - let him think that if he wants, especially if he refuses to want to believe otherwise. Every time you give him a quote or something that correctly says that it IS in fact ok, he is just going to find something “wrong” with it. He is being way too literal, or something - I don’t even know.

It’s silly to say that it is wrong or especially that the bishop was wrong. As plenty of people have said, it CAN be wrong, but it does not have to be wrong. Nothing anyone says is going to change anything - well, at least for me! Women can be externally (and of course internally, but that’s not what’s in question) beautiful and I thank God for that!

This will be helpful:

Jimmy Akin --senior Apologist of Catholic Answers:

jimmyakin.org/2009/01/appreciating-beauty-vs-concupiscence.html

(see also: forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8289565&postcount=84)

The Jimmy Akin treatment of the question is spot-on. So maybe the only thing going on with Rock_91 is that he personally needs a little more personal management with regards to this temptation, and simply can’t cope with the idea that some men objectively do not need such strict boundaries in order to keep themselves in bounds.

But as you say, the point has been made and the horse is beaten well past death, past tenderized, and has become a mushy mound of hamburger. Enough, already.

 

[DeoJuventute]

So let’s see… what if a straight woman looks at another woman and says “wow, you’re really pretty”? Is that sin?

What if a homosexual male looks at a woman and says “Wow, you’re really pretty”? Is that sin?

…

The problem is that I’m neither a woman nor a homosexual man. So when I see a really pretty woman, I don’t see them the say same that a homosexual or a woman would. I actually take delight in their attractiveness. And what doesn’t make sense is when that delight turns into lust.

 

[DeoJuventute]

Reading this thread almost makes me furious. OK, not exactly. But it’s basically pointless to keep on arguing. Rock_91 seems to want to imply that basically every time a man looks at a woman (that is not his wife) he sins - let him think that if he wants, especially if he refuses to want to believe otherwise. Every time you give him a quote or something that correctly says that it IS in fact ok, he is just going to find something “wrong” with it. He is being way too literal, or something - I don’t even know.

It’s silly to say that it is wrong or especially that the bishop was wrong. As plenty of people have said, it CAN be wrong, but it does not have to be wrong. Nothing anyone says is going to change anything - well, at least for me! Women can be externally (and of course internally, but that’s not what’s in question) beautiful and I thank God for that!

I can’t speak for him, but I don’t think that’s what he’s arguing. I think he’s saying that any time you look at a woman because it gives you pleasure, or delight, or whatever you want to call that sensation you get when you see a very attractive woman, that it is that intent to derive pleasure that is sinful.

The argument to the contrary seems to be that, well, you can look at their face, or look at them like a homosexual would, or just cooly, casually, objectively note their beauty like you would an adonis or painting.

Are you kidding me? Let me tell you, as a man in his 20s, there’s a whole heaping differerence between a marble statue and a living, breathing, and incredibly attractive woman. I don’t know any man who could honestly just happen to “notice” a gorgeous woman and then either pretend that there’s no serious sexual attraction or “admire” her like you would a well-executed double play at Yankee Stadium.

 

[Bookcat]

The problem is that I’m neither a woman nor a homosexual man. So when I see a really pretty woman, I don’t see them the say same that a homosexual or a woman would. I actually take delight in their attractiveness. And what doesn’t make sense is when that delight turns into lust.

As I noted one does need a reasonable custody of the eyes.

But as for when things turn in to lust…

Lust: for example you seek to arouse yourself, or consent to sexual pleasure, or you engage in lustful thoughts, imaginations or desires.

Lust is not just that one happened to notice a pretty woman…or even noticed a well proportioned woman. Or even happened to look a second time per se.

But one does need to take virtuous care. Many in our culture dress in a rather immodest way. And and one needs that reasonable custody of the eyes. And the other things I noted before.

It is a serious concern…but also one that one should not overly stress over either…for such can make matters worse.

 

[promethius]

I can’t speak for him, but I don’t think that’s what he’s arguing. I think he’s saying that any time you look at a woman because it gives you pleasure, or delight, or whatever you want to call that sensation you get when you see a very attractive woman, that it is that intent to derive pleasure that is sinful.

The argument to the contrary seems to be that, well, you can look at their face, or look at them like a homosexual would, or just cooly, casually, objectively note their beauty like you would an adonis or painting.

Are you kidding me? Let me tell you, as a man in his 20s, there’s a whole heaping differerence between a marble statue and a living, breathing, and incredibly attractive woman. I don’t know any man who could honestly just happen to “notice” a gorgeous woman and then either pretend that there’s no serious sexual attraction or “admire” her like you would a well-executed double play at Yankee Stadium.

Your confusion is applying your conscupience to as though it’s a general standard that all suffer from.

The conscupience of a 20 something single male hanging around bikini’d girls at the beach and who is interested in getting married is just SLIGHTLY different than that of a fifty something archbishop talking about ministry to a fully clothed and well covered flight attendent.

That is why we are called to personal formation of our conscience and to avoid those things which are specifically near ocassions of sin for us. Because not all single (or married), heterosexual males look lustfully at women.