Priests are dying of AIDS at a rate at least four times that of the U.S.populatation

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GloriaPatri4

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A friend’s husband who is a physician worked at a hospital in San Diego during the late 80’s and early 90’s. During his employment there he noticed a large of proportion of priests admitted to the hospital with AIDS related illnesses sadly he also witnessed many priests dying as a result of AIDS.
FROM
Article from Kansas City Star

kcstar.com/projects/priests/

Read the followup to this series

PART ONE:

The Rev. Dennis Rausch, a priest who has AIDS, celebrates Mass at St. Maurice Catholic Church in Fort Lauderdale, Fla. “You can survive as a priest with AIDS,” Rausch says. “Your life hasn’t ended.” At left is Ron Gouthro, a deacon.Catholic priests are dying of AIDS, often in silence
Hundreds of Roman Catholic priests across the United States have died of AIDS-related illnesses, and hundreds more are living with HIV, the virus that causes the disease. It appears priests are dying of AIDS at a rate at least four times that of the general U.S. population.
Priests speak out in national survey
Six of 10 Roman Catholic priests in The Kansas City Star’s survey know at least one priest who died of an AIDS-related illness, and one-third know a priest currently living with AIDS.
• About The Star’s survey
AIDS, gay-related issues trouble many denominations
The Roman Catholic church may be the nation’s largest denomination, but it isn’t the only one grappling with the issues of homosexuality and AIDS. Many denominations have lost clergy to AIDS, and numerous churches are mired in battles over whether to ordain homosexuals or to perform same-sex marriages.
Homosexuality, AIDS and celibacy: the church’s views
The Roman Catholic Church has no national policy on dealing with priests who have HIV or AIDS. Nor does the church have specific guidelines on educating priests about sexuality. Priests and seminarians are expected to rely on church doctrine on homosexuality and celibacy and to follow their bishop’s or superior’s lead in ministering to colleagues afflicted with AIDS.
Florida priest finds acceptance after devastating news
In early 1989, the Rev. Dennis Rausch was thinking about leaving the priesthood. Though ordained for nearly a decade and serving as Catholic chaplain at a Florida university, Rausch felt unfulfilled. Then he tested positive for HIV.

continue reading
kcstar.com/projects/priests/
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This “news” story is 5 years old and the “study” was highly suspect to begin with.

Add to the fact that they say that they questioned priests, which are solely an adult male group, and then they attempt to compare it to society in general which is made up of male and females, both adult and children.

Trash science at its best.
 
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GloriaPatri4:
A friend’s husband who is a physician worked at a hospital in San Diego during the late 80’s and early 90’s. During his employment there he noticed a large of proportion of priests admitted to the hospital with AIDS related illnesses sadly he also witnessed many priests dying as a result of AIDS.
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I guess the phenomenon was only limited to San Diego.:rolleyes:
 
Priests with HIV (before it develops into AIDS) should go about their daily lives as normal. When they start to actually get sick (which can be several years, thanks to modern medicine), they should retire from ministry, and go to a hospice or hospital (preferably one that is somewhat isolated, so no one bugs them).
 
Sarah Jane said:
Aids and the News Media
by Archbishop Charles Chaput
catholiceducation.org/articles/media/me0013.html

Bad News on Priests and AIDS
by David Murray & S. Robert Litcher
catholiceducation.org/articles/media/me0011.html

Kansas City Star Survey Claims Priests More Likely to Have Aids: Report Not Scientifically Accurate
catholiceducation.org/articles/media/me0010.html
Click to expand...

**Review confirms more than 300 AIDS-related deaths **

By JUDY L. THOMAS - The Kansas City Star
Date: 11/04/00 22:15

To document the number of priests who have died of AIDS-related illnesses, The Kansas City Star first obtained death certificates from states where they were available.

Those states accounted for 42 percent of the nation’s total priest population. The states were California, Georgia, Illinois, Kentucky, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, Ohio, South Dakota, Vermont, Washington and Wisconsin.

In addition, the newspaper confirmed the AIDS-related deaths of more than 150 priests in several states that did not have open death records, including Colorado, Florida, Hawaii, Kansas and New York. These deaths were confirmed through interviews with family members, clergy, health-care workers and others.

Of the more than 300 AIDS-related deaths among priests nationwide that The Star confirmed, the earliest occurred in 1983. The most recent was this fall. The priests ranged in age from 28 to 73, but most were in their 40s and 50s.

The Star’s policy is not to identify priests who have died of AIDS without permission from the families or previous public disclosure, such as obituaries. Because the newspaper opted to preserve the privacy of the more than 300 priests whose dea ths were documented for this story, The Star asked the deans of two major university schools of journalism to review the documentation of the deaths.

The review, conducted under strict confidentiality, was done by Dean Mills, dean of the University of Missouri school of journalism, and James K. Gentry, dean of the University of Kansas school of journalism. Both deans confirmed the authenticity of th e death records and other documentation.

Because death certificates are not public records in two-thirds of the states – and because it is known that some certificates failed to accurately report AIDS as the priests’ cause of death – experts said the number of AIDS-related deaths among prie sts was certainly higher than the 300-plus deaths reviewed by the deans. But the exact toll will never be known.

Although there are many ways to calculate death rates, The Star used a method recommended by Richard Selik, a medical epidemiologist and AIDS expert at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta. The CDC agreed to provide statisti cal advice but doesn’t comment on or endorse recommendations others might make based on the results.

The newspaper consulted with Selik to help calculate the death rates of priests between 1987 and 1998 in the states where death records were available. Before 1987, death certificates did not have a specific system for recording HIV infection as a caus e of death.

To make sure men who had left the priesthood were not included, the newspaper confined its search to priests listed in the Official Catholic Directory. Each year, the directory lists the names of priests in every state, as well as those who have died. For instance, the 1999 directory lists about 47,000 priests in the United States, along with about 1,000 who have died.

The findings: The average annual AIDS death rate for priests in the states where death records were available was 6 per 10,000, which is more than double that of the adult male population in those states and more than six times that of the general popu lation in those states.

Because of the large population sample, the AIDS death rates for adult males and the general population in those states remained the same when projected out to the entire United States. If the death rate for priests also was representative, Selik said, that would translate into about 28 AIDS-related priest deaths per year nationwide, based on available records.

read more
kcstar.com/projects/priests/folo4.htm
 
Again, 2000, five years old.

Old story.

One that has been questioned greatly.

These authors didn’t even publish it in a professional journal, they went with some second rate newspaper.

Trash science just to attack the Church.
 
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GloriaPatri4:
A friend’s husband who is a physician worked at a hospital in San Diego during the late 80’s and early 90’s. During his employment there he noticed a large of proportion of priests admitted to the hospital with AIDS related illnesses sadly he also witnessed many priests dying as a result of AIDS.
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While this is a very old story – you should have pulled up with it the follow up that the report was totally flawed, many priests in the same diocese knew the same one or two priests and so the total would be two priests, not four, that kind of thing. Very, very, old news.
 
Sounds like alot of anti-Catholic nonsense. The angle of course in these “stories” being that we Catholics dissapprove of homosexuality yet most of our priests are either homosexual, insatiable perverts, or IV drug users.
Besides the story being old, the stats seem very dubious.

Thanks for buying into it though! We could sure use more bad press!
 
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ByzCath:
Again, 2000, five years old.

Old story.

One that has been questioned greatly.

These authors didn’t even publish it in a professional journal, they went with some second rate newspaper.

Trash science just to attack the Church.
Click to expand...
Is it trash science simply because you don’t like the results?

The lowest estimate I have seen in print puts the population of homosexuals in the priesthood at 10 percent; the highest at 80%. While I am inclined not to believe the 80% figure, and while I am no fan of Mr. Rose and his “Goodby Good Men” book - lousy writing and even lousier research - and I think Lukedis’ book amounts to a witch hunt, let’s assume that the statistic of 10% is accurate; statistically, that would put the presumed death rate from AIDS at 3 to 5 times the rate in the general population of men, given the real statistics of male homosexuality in the general population is about 2 to 3% (not 10% as the urban myth dictates - Kinsey is known to have lied).
 
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otm:
Is it trash science simply because you don’t like the results?

The lowest estimate I have seen in print puts the population of homosexuals in the priesthood at 10 percent; the highest at 80%. While I am inclined not to believe the 80% figure, and while I am no fan of Mr. Rose and his “Goodby Good Men” book - lousy writing and even lousier research - and I think Lukedis’ book amounts to a witch hunt, let’s assume that the statistic of 10% is accurate; statistically, that would put the presumed death rate from AIDS at 3 to 5 times the rate in the general population of men, given the real statistics of male homosexuality in the general population is about 2 to 3% (not 10% as the urban myth dictates - Kinsey is known to have lied).
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Whenever you have to make an assumption, it is trash science. And statistics can be very devious. For instance, as a white male I have been a minority in the workplace for well over 10 years now, due to the fact that white males make up less than 50% of the work force when all other groups are combined.
 
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otm:
Is it trash science simply because you don’t like the results?
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No, it was trash science becasue, as HagiaSophia pointed out above that the survey was very flawed. It was so flawed that the authors of the survey decided not to attempted to have it published in a peer reviewed professioinal journal and instead had is printed in a second rate local newspaper.
The lowest estimate I have seen in print puts the population of homosexuals in the priesthood at 10 percent; the highest at 80%. While I am inclined not to believe the 80% figure, and while I am no fan of Mr. Rose and his “Goodby Good Men” book - lousy writing and even lousier research - and I think Lukedis’ book amounts to a witch hunt, let’s assume that the statistic of 10% is accurate; statistically, that would put the presumed death rate from AIDS at 3 to 5 times the rate in the general population of men, given the real statistics of male homosexuality in the general population is about 2 to 3% (not 10% as the urban myth dictates - Kinsey is known to have lied).
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I do no know of these surveys you speak of. 80% of the priests are homosexuals. First you must define the word. If you are laying on the definition of just showing effeminate behaviors. Even 10% sounds high but even if it is true you are makeing the assumption that they are sinning by having sex.

A great step.

And again, you are looking at the rates incorrectly. If the rate of homosexual in the general population is 2% or 3% and the rate in the priesthood is 10% you can not compare those percentages becuase the general population is exponentally larger than the population of the priesthood.

Then add to the fact that the rate of AIDS as reported by this “survey” was severely falwed to begin with.

Its garbage.
 
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otm:
Is it trash science simply because you don’t like the results?
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No, it is trash because it was immediately seen through and commented on by both religious and secular sources as being seriously flawed, journalistically dishonest and of no help whatsoever in disseminating either news about AIDS or priests afflicted with it.
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otm:
let’s assume that the statistic of 10% is accurate;
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That is not science – that’s your guess. Below for your ready reference are just a few of the comments made upon release of the article. The paper left the the scene with egg on their face as I recollect.

From skeptic.com
January 30, 2000. The Kansas City Star is spreading fear by making claims about an AIDS epidemic among Catholic priests in the U.S. The Star is basing its baseless claims on a few anecdotes and a very, very unscientific survey which they did themselves. There are some 50,000 priests in the U.S. The Star made no effort to do a random sampling and get a good cross-section of that population for its survey. Instead, the Star bases its claims on the 801 responses it got to a survey about priests and their sexual behaviors that had been mailed to 3,000 priests.

How serious the AIDS problem is among priests will not be discovered by studying the Kansas City Star’s report.

sfbay.org (SF Catholic newspaper)
A Flawed Survey
The assertions about the demographics of AIDS among priests are based on a survey that the newspaper sent out to 3,000 priests, both diocesan and religious, from all over the country. A total of 801 priests responded, only 27%. This makes the survey a self-selected group, already making
the results suspect.

Given that the survey was confidential, after this self-selection, it is impossible to know if all the respondants came from one part of the country or shared some other demographical trait. It is even possible that priests who weren’t HIV positive would have felt that the survey didn’t apply to them and ignored it. All of these factors make the results at the very least questionable.

Four Times More Likely?
The Kansas City Star’s survey indicates that 0.5% of the respondants have AIDS – 4 priests out of this group. Another 3 priests said they were unsure and hadn’t been tested. In its analysis, the newspaper assumes that this means that 0.9% of all U.S. priests have AIDS. This represents four times the AIDS rate in the general public, according to the article, citing figures from the Center for Disease control (CDC).

However, the numbers don’t seem to match up. The CDC estimates that there are between 650,000 and 900,000 Americans with AIDS: 0.25-0.35% of the general population (cf. 1997 World AIDS Day Pamphlet). This would seem to justify the newspaper’s assertion that priests are four times more likely to have the disease, if we take the lowest estimates for the
general public and the highest estimates for priests.

When one considers that most AIDS patients are men (women represent only 20% of new AIDS cases), the CDC figures would have to fall very close to or above the 0.5% figure of priests who actually reported having the disease. Furthermore, since children make up a relatively small group among AIDS victims, the percentage of adult males suffering from AIDS
would be even higher, possibly even exceeding the rate seen among priests in the survey. At any rate, a far cry from the four times higher rate of HIV cited in the article. [Editor’s note: The Editor of the Kansas City Star wrote to ZENIT to say that the “four times” figure was based on “official sources,” and not the results of their survey, whose importance he downplayed. At any rate, citing the survey results next to the CDC figures for the general population was clearly a misleading use
of statistics.]

The article strongly emphasizes the figures that 58% of respondants personally knew “priests who died of an AIDS-related illness” and 30% “know priests with HIV or AIDS.” These figures could, however, point to nothing more than the intimacy of dioceses and religious orders. Priests
within the diocese tend to know one another, and this is even truer among the religious. It is not clear that there is anything unusual involved here at all. The article only provides the figures – presented in the lead paragraph as the most important fact in the article – and leaves it up to the reader to determine their meaning.
 
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mjdonnelly:
Whenever you have to make an assumption, it is trash science. And statistics can be very devious. For instance, as a white male I have been a minority in the workplace for well over 10 years now, due to the fact that white males make up less than 50% of the work force when all other groups are combined.
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As Bishop Chaput points out — a real loser of an amateurish attempt to pretend to run a serious study without much thought behind the entire thing.

Bishop Chaput
Denver Catholic Register February 16, 2000 issue,

One has to wonder if the paper really cared about the accuracy of its statistics, however, because this was not a story about AIDS. It was a story about sex. More specifically, it was a creative way to campaign against Catholic teachings on homosexual behavior, and also priestly celibacy. By elevating examples of sin among priests, it apparently sought to shame the Church into changing her teaching, or at least to expose Catholic doctrine as hypocritical.

A questionable agenda
If you weren’t reading with a critical eye, this agenda may not have been immediately apparent. The writer did a good job of weaving together anecdotal evidence and questionable statistics, all of which gave the impression that priests are contracting HIV at a devastating rate.

At times, though, the underlying motivation of the series was transparent. For example, consider the following statements:

“Many priests and behavioral experts argue that the church’s adherence to 12th century doctrine about the virtues of celibacy and its teaching on homosexuality have contributed to the spread of AIDS within the clergy.”
“Experts say that until the church starts encouraging a more healthy understanding of sexuality, priests will continue to die of AIDS.”

I do not know to which priests and “experts” the reporter was referring. But if there are people out there who believe the Catholic Church’s teaching on sexuality is somehow “unhealthy,” they owe it to themselves to take a closer look. In truth, there is no healthier understanding of sexuality, from both spiritual and physical perspectives. Which is why, when sexual intimacy is reserved for marriage — faithful, loving, lifetime commitment between one man and one woman —a the sexual transmission of disease becomes much less likely.

GAY PRIESTS AND GAY MARRIAGE
But what of priests and the promise of celibacy? The articles suggest that most priests are either breaking their promise of celibacy or suffering severe psycho-sexual consequences. Those who know priests can tell you this is nonsense…"
 
Maybe this is one of the ways that the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church.

Or not.

Alan
 
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AlanFromWichita:
Maybe this is one of the ways …
Alan
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I am ashamed of that last post, and I am very sorry for having made it. I apologize. 😦

Alan
 
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otm:
Is it trash science simply because you don’t like the results?
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Even a former Catholic like me who (as Byz likes to say) has an “axe to grind” can see that this is trash science. The story is five years old and would have spread like wildfire if it were true. Major news outlets would have relayed the story around the world.

I’ve read dozens of books that attempt to estimate the homosexual population in the clergy. It is impossible to estimate the numbers other than to say that it is indeed very likely that there are some gay priests. Still, a priest that is gay can remain celibate.

Are there gay priests? I think so. Are some of them sexually active? No doubt. Have some contracted AIDS? It is likely. Is this the greatest challenge the RCC faces? Not even close.

Nohome
 
Nohome,

If you have an axe to grind against the church then you definitely left it by the wood shed in your post. Thanks for the objectivity.
 
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otm:
The lowest estimate I have seen in print puts the population of homosexuals in the priesthood at 10 percent; the highest at 80%.
Click to expand...
On my morning run I got to thinking about this. Let’s suppose for a moment that the high end estimates were correct. That would make the priestly population 30 to 35 times more gay than the general population. If this were the case, this news report would actually be showing a REDUCED incidence of AIDS in the clergy.

I know this is absurd as I tend to get absract while on a long run, but it does show how bad data can be manipulated to say whatever you want. This isn’t my line, but statistics don’t lie, people do, using statistics.

Nohome
 
Read Chapter 13 of St.Matthew (Latin Vulgate edition)about scandlers:

13:41 The Son of man shall send his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all scandals, and them that work iniquity.
13:41 mittet Filius hominis angelos suos et colligent de regno eius omnia scandala et eos qui faciunt iniquitatem

13:42 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
13:42 et mittent eos in caminum ignis ibi erit fletus et stridor dentium 😦 RC
 
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