Priests/bishops condoning contraception

[Curious_Convert]

Okay, so I know the official teaching regarding contraception and I agree with it. I really don’t need any explanations of what the rules are or why they are that way. Thanks ]

My question is why do the priests who I seek counseling from contradict the teaching of the catechism? Out of the 7 priests that I have talked to from my archdiocese, ALL of them told me that contraception can sometimes be justified in marriage. Three have even told me that there are some situations where an individually has a moral obligation to use it for the good of their marriage! As if that wasn’t enough, the bishop from my my archdiocese (who I won’t mention so as not to scandalize) confirmed the opinion of these 7 priests, stating that there are situations where it is okay as long as the couple is open to children most of the time. Only one non-diocesan Dominican Priest has upheld the teachings of the catechism in our conversations.

How can the average lay person be expected to take this teaching seriously when so many priests and bishops don’t? How can the hierarchs above the bishops expect the lay people to take them seriously when they don’t rebuke the dissenters underneath their authority?

 

[1ke]

Because they are human. Pray for them.

The great John Paul II gave us the great gift of the Catechism. Yes, we can know the truth.

 

[Nate13]

hmm is it possible some were referring to the case where a person’s spouse demands that contraception be used? I believe there are cases where the evil of refusing to have sex with your spouse who is contracepting outweighs the possible evil of causing a divorce and splitting up your family. There is some pastoral leeway in regards to that situation I believe.

It could also be they are referring to when your wife is on the pill or the equivalent for therapeutic reasons and whether its permissible to have marital relations then.

Contracepting (intrinsically evil) can never be justified though so a priest who says that is wrong if they truly believe that. I would hope they are just misstating one of the above cases.

However…yes your completely right. It is hard to expect lay people to follow it when you have so many misguided priests. Fortunately we have a steady constant teaching coming out of the Vatican. Anyone who takes the time to study their faith can’t miss this teaching. Everyone who calls themselves a Catholic should have a Catechism as well.

 

[LaSainte]

Sometimes this makes me think the Varican is telling the priests something besides “official teaching” , giving them freedom to advise us pastorally but maintaining the same official stance. I know this can’t be true, but why would so many priests to against the Church? It doesn’t make sense.

 

[1ke]

but why would so many priests to against the Church? It doesn’t make sense.

The wheat and the weeds grow together.

 

[Curious_Convert]

Agreed on both points about the catechism, but it seems there is a deeper issue here as well.

Nate, I know for sure that they were not referring to those exceptional circumstances, but instead to more ordinary circumstances.

 

[Curious_Convert]

I hear you LaSante, the majority of catholics that I know have had the vast majority of priests that they have talked to tell them that contraception is a matter of their own conscience and is not always intrinsically evil.

 

[Nate13]

Agreed on both points about the catechism, but it seems there is a deeper issue here as well.

Nate, I know for sure that they were not referring to those exceptional circumstances, but instead to more ordinary circumstances.

The priests in my city come down 3 (upholding the Church’s positions) - 2 (probably something less than the Church’s position). I’m in the midwest which may help that ratio to some degree as opposed to where your at.

There were at lot of priests in the 60’s and 70’s that were not taught Church teaching on this matter which is why we have a lot of trouble. It took the Vatican some time to get a handle on some of the seminaries that were not teaching in conformity with the Vatican. I bet you will notice that a lot of the younger priests are much more likely to be on point on this teaching and it should only continue to improve.

I know some diocese’s have people like Janet Smith going around giving talks to the priests in their diocese on the issue and are trying to bring them back into the fold. They could definitely do more of this though.

 

[Curious_Convert]

Glad to hear that most in your area have affirmed the official teaching Nate. I am in the North-east, that might explain a lot of it.

 

[Nate13]

Glad to hear that most in your area have affirmed the official teaching Nate. I am in the North-east, that might explain a lot of it.

We had a great priest named Fr. Larry Richards from somewhere in Pennsylvania who came down and gave a great talk for a Men’s conference this year where I’m at so there are definitely some gems out there In today’s day and age where millions of people can be reached simultaneously thanks to technology you don’t need every priest to be perfect to get your message out thankfully. People aren’t as reliant on their local priest as the only place they can get the Truth of Catholicism.

 

[opus101]

Were the priests approximately in the same age category? It is my experience that you might hear dissent from those who were in the seminary during the 70’s and 80’s. Also, dioceses tend to send their seminarians to the same seminary, or send them to just a few. It could be that they were educated by the same wayward professors.Also, it sounds as if the Bishop is influencing his priests for the worse. Did the Bishop tell you this personally, or is it just hearsay? If he really did say that, then he is not in union with the Pope, the Bishops and those who are faithful to Christ through His Church.

In a way, this HHS mandate issue is a blessing. It is forcing the Bishops to teach the truth, and many people are just learning it for the first time.

 

[Curious_Convert]

Good points Opus. The bishop said it to me personally in a one on one conversation. He said the Church teaching is meant to apply to ‘the big picture,’ not each and every sexual act. As convenient as that would be if correct, I am aware that this is contrary to the Catechism.

To answer your question, the priests ranged in age from late 30’s to 70’s as far as I can tell.

 

[Nate13]

Good points Opus. The bishop said it to me personally in a one on one conversation. He said the Church teaching is meant to apply to ‘the big picture,’ not each and every sexual act. As convenient as that would be if correct, I am aware that this is contrary to the Catechism.

Yeah it would take about two seconds to point out the exact couple sentences in Humane Vitae that completely refute what he said.

 

[coco2]

Whoa. I had three difficult pregnancies, which resulted in being close to death and taking over a year to recover after #3. Each baby, my doctor said no more babies. After the last one, he said I wouldn’t live through the next one. We went to the priest to see if the Church would allow it due to circumstances. My priest said, no birth control. I told my doctor that I can’t use birth control. He said, that the next time I get pregnant, I may have to abort the baby to save my life. ( That stopped me in my tracks, because I could never abort, no matter if I was dying). This problem caused a lot of anguish, and arguing between my husband and myself. My husband didn’t care what the Church said, he didn’t want me dying. I cared what the church said. It was a horrible time in our marriage.

 

[coco2]

Good points Opus. The bishop said it to me personally in a one on one conversation. He said the Church teaching is meant to apply to ‘the big picture,’ not each and every sexual act. As convenient as that would be if correct, I am aware that this is contrary to the Catechism.

To answer your question, the priests ranged in age from late 30’s to 70’s as far as I can tell.

I heard a priest once say during a sermon about marriage and divorce that staying married was the “ideal”. WHAT?! And this he said at a school Mass for kids in kindergarten through 8th grade.

 

[Richard320]

We had a great priest named Fr. Larry Richards from somewhere in Pennsylvania who came down and gave a great talk for a Men’s conference this year where I’m at so there are definitely some gems out there In today’s day and age where millions of people can be reached simultaneously thanks to technology you don’t need every priest to be perfect to get your message out thankfully. People aren’t as reliant on their local priest as the only place they can get the Truth of Catholicism.

He’s great!

I have a CD of his on Confession, and he covers a lot of ground, very well, not wishy-washy, but not preachy either.

 

[choose_to_love]

slightly off-topic, hope you will indulge.

OP, do you read the National Catholic Reporter? I am asking because I have never heard the bishops referred to as “hierarchs” anywhere but the Reporter. I have been meaning to post there that no one else outside of the Reporter combox uses that term, and now you have disproved my theory, I think.

@Nate and Richard: Father Larry has a website, or did in the past. I think you can download homilies from him. He is amazing at retreats.

 

[Curious_Convert]

Choose to love, I don’t regularly read the National Catholic Reporter. I am just relatively new to Catholicism and unaware of whether bishops are supervised directly by the Pope, or if they are overseen by others underneath the Pope. Therefore I just said ‘hierarchs’ to signify whoever is directly above them. I know that they have a direct ruling authority of their own within their diocese, but as is obvious from my personal experience, that is no guarantee that they are held responsible to teach official Catholic teaching regarding faith and morals. Wasn’t it in Canada that a whole conference of Bishops basically told the Pope, ‘we are going to tell couples to decide for themselves on this one.’ ?

 

[sw85]

A lot of our priests are older, and so went through seminaries at a time when they were basically run by open heretics. Father Z on his blog relates several horror stories of his time in seminary, including a student who was expelled for “excessive Marian devotion” (i.e., he was seen praying the rosary) and a priest and nun who ran off together, never to be seen again, after a breathy and sexually-charged reading of the Song of Songs.

So do not be surprised that many of the older priests (i.e., many priests, period) are either ignorant of the Church’s teachings or in thrall to modernism.

Younger priests, you will find, are I think more orthodox, and as time passes and the “biological solution” takes hold (i.e., the old heretic seminary professors die off and are replaced by younger, holier men), the priests coming out of seminary will be increasingly true to the Church and its teachings.

 

[TimothyH]

I heard a priest once say during a sermon about marriage and divorce that staying married was the “ideal”. WHAT?! And this he said at a school Mass for kids in kindergarten through 8th grade.

In terms of civil divorce, it is ideal to stay married but not always possible.

In terms of civil divorce, when one spouse refuses to stop putting the entire family at risk, it is right for the other spouse to have recourse to legal means for protection.

When bank accounts are being drained to facilitate affairs, when people are driving drunk and run the risk of killing someone and the lawsuits that are sure to follow, and when there is abuse, it is right an just for the innocent party to have recourse to the protection of a divorce.

Divorce is always a grave matter, but not always avoidable.

-Tim-