Priests 'broom fighting' in Bethlehem

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It doesn’t say anything about the RC’s getting involved in this one. Regardless, I can see where it would be easy to come to blows in that situation. Each group claims to have the care of that Church in its hands…it’s a tense situation and they are human, subject to human emotion like the rest of us.
 
It is in the character of dog bites man. They have that fight every year as I recall.
 
Do the Franciscan Friars also have a history fighting with the brooms?
 
JustaServant said:
I know its wrong find humor in this…I have this mental picture of ninja priests…
Oh never mind…😃
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I had a similar mental images when I first heard this incident reported on the local TV news station; then I actually looked at the screen and felt both disappointed and more importantly dismayed.
 
KathleenGee said:
Do the Franciscan Friars also have a history fighting with the brooms?
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No they are not allowed to have brooms, the vow of poverty and that, they have a nasty tendency to take their sandals off and open a can of old school Franciscan discipline 😦

😃 yes I do joke (just in case someone took me seriously) 😛
 
This is sad, and I’m sure just reflects the need for more dialogue and charity.
 
wwolverine said:
Its really shocking to read the news that the priests who are supposed to clean the church ended up fighting with each other.

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2079328/Priests-brawl-Bethlehems-Church-Nativity-clergy-fight-Christmas-cleaning.html#ixzz1hwcPMmEl

Was that Christian, and how can we show we are a peaceful religion? How dows the world see us now?
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Actually, the rest of the world probably doesn’t think any differently about Christianity, because this happens regularly. Not on a weekly basis, but usually every few months.

Basically, the Armenians (Oriental) and the Greeks (Eastern), who aren’t in communion, both claim various holy sites around Palestine. But neither wants to relinquish its hold to the other, for obvious reasons. Thus, they agreed to “share” custodianship of the shrines. But in doing so, they’ve mapped off areas within that the other church can’t go, and they only repair things when all members agree…so nothing, essentially gets done. Fights like this break out when one member of the opposite group attempts to clean or repair a part of the church claimed by the other side. Sometimes even walking or looking at the others incorrectly can cause commotion.

It’s definitly not Christian to act like that, and I think most non-Christians realize it. And those who do say “HA! Christianity is evil! See!? See?!” usually have negative opinions of the religion already and just use this to reinforce their opinions.
 
The really sad thing is that they have to have the Israeli government step in and arbitrate it for them. Somewhere St Paul disapproved Christians who couldn’t settle their problems in house and had to turn to unbelievers for judgement. 😦

Fortunately the Israeli government seems to be doing their part well in this.
 
Mirza19 said:
Actually, the rest of the world probably doesn’t think any differently about Christianity, because this happens regularly. Not on a weekly basis, but usually every few months.

Basically, the Armenians (Oriental) and the Greeks (Eastern), who aren’t in communion, both claim various holy sites around Palestine. But neither wants to relinquish its hold to the other, for obvious reasons. Thus, they agreed to “share” custodianship of the shrines. But in doing so, they’ve mapped off areas within that the other church can’t go, and they only repair things when all members agree…so nothing, essentially gets done. Fights like this break out when one member of the opposite group attempts to clean or repair a part of the church claimed by the other side. Sometimes even walking or looking at the others incorrectly can cause commotion.

It’s definitly not Christian to act like that, and I think most non-Christians realize it. And those who do say “HA! Christianity is evil! See!? See?!” usually have negative opinions of the religion already and just use this to reinforce their opinions.
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I’m curious as to why they get so worked up over it. The Church of the Holy Sepulchre is shared by even more Churches and I don’t hear news of fights breaking out in there.
 
Tyuiop411 said:
I’m curious as to why they get so worked up over it. The Church of the Holy Sepulchre is shared by even more Churches and I don’t hear news of fights breaking out in there.
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news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7718587.stm

telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/3412140/Monks-brawl-at-Jerusalems-Church-of-the-Holy-Sepulchre-site-of-Jesuss-crucifixion.html

Both are of the same event, but the second one states:

“The church in Jerusalem’s Old City, one of the most revered sites in Christianity, is home to six different Christian sects who frequently fight over the rights to maintain and worship in different sections of its hallowed halls.”

Territory, for some reason, equals power. Us Bahá’ís had a similar incident when a group of renegades sued us for the name “Bahá’í” and our Temple in Chicago. There wasn’t any physical brawl, and we “won” the suit, but it still demonstrates that groups would much rather have control over buildings, names, and images rather than actually practice the Faith that lays beneath all those things.
 
wwolverine said:
Was that Christian, and how can we show we are a peaceful religion? How dows the world see us now?
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As someone else mentioned, these sort of brawls are a regular occurrence. They have been happening for centuries, so the fights are nothing new. And not only the Church of the Nativity (in Bethlehem) is involved but also the Church of the Holy Sepulchre (in Jerusalem.)
 
wwolverine said:
Its really shocking to read the news that the priests who are supposed to clean the church ended up fighting with each other.

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2079328/Priests-brawl-Bethlehems-Church-Nativity-clergy-fight-Christmas-cleaning.html#ixzz1hwcPMmEl

Was that Christian, and how can we show we are a peaceful religion? How dows the world see us now?
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There has always been that tension between religious groups.


Saving the Holy Sepulchre
How Rival Christians Came Together to Rescue their Holiest Shrine
Raymond Cohen
 
wwolverine said:
Its really shocking to read the news that the priests who are supposed to clean the church ended up fighting with each other.

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2079328/Priests-brawl-Bethlehems-Church-Nativity-clergy-fight-Christmas-cleaning.html#ixzz1hwcPMmEl

Was that Christian, and how can we show we are a peaceful religion? How dows the world see us now?
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why are you shocked… it seems to be a tradition. I hear it happens often. It’s is actually endeering. Cute.
 
meedo said:
why are you shocked… it seems to be a tradition. I hear it happens often. It’s is actually endeering. Cute.
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Quote from:

home.comcast.net/~acbfp/topten.html

**Which Is The Tradition?

In the village of Omsk all was not well in the local Pokrov Parish. Every year, during Lent, at ‘Blessed art Thou, O Lord, teach me Thy statutes’, half of the congregation would make a metany at the waist, and half would make a full prostration. The little metanists would start whispering sharply, ‘No! No! From the waist!’ To which the great metanists would hiss back even louder, ‘Wrong! Full prostration! Who are you following, the Devil?!’ And fistfights would break out and the service could not even be completed.

Finally the war-weary parishioners decided to ask their priest, Fr Veniamin. ‘Batiushka, what is the tradition? In Lent, at “Blessed art Thou”, do we make a little metany, or a great metany?’ Knowing the rancour attached to the dispute, poor Fr Veniamin trembled, grew pale, then fainted dead away and fell backwards.

So next they went to the Skete of the Forerunner, and asked Fr Onouphry: ‘Batiushka, we want to know, we have a terrible argument at Omsk–what is the tradition? Because half the people say to make small metanies at “Blessed art Thou” now, and half say great metanies. And we start fighting, terrible, terrible. So, tell us, what is the Tradition?’ Seeing the ferocity in their faces, poor Hieromonk Anatoly simply fainted dead away.

Then someone shouted, ‘Let’s go to Elder Ioann and ask him!’ It was a marvellous idea. Surely the elder’s answer would bring peace, for he was respected by all, a native of Omsk, and his hoary 94 years guaranteed a knowledge of what the old tradition had been.

So a large crowd gathered at the elder’s dacha on the outskirts of town. Some 15 men from both sides entered the dacha, and found frail Elder Ioann lying on his bed. As he struggled to draw himself up and offer tea, they cut him off: ‘Elder Ioann, you have to help us! What is the Tradition? Every year in Lent, at “Blessed art Thou, O Lord”, half of the people at Pokrov make little metanies, and half the people great metanies, and we start to argue, and the service doesn’t even finish because of the fistfight!’ Then Elder Ioann said firmly, in his voice shaking with age, and with tears streaming down his joyful face, ‘That…* is*… the Tradition!’ **

😃
 
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