Priests, Marriage, and Inheritance

[brian24]

Ok, I was discussing priests and the fact that they stay celibate. The person said this
"I’m an atheist. I see no truth in this discussion at all. I’m merely sharing views that I have encountered.

Also, the only reason priests can’t marry in the Catholic Church is because the Church had no interest in their children inheriting church property. That’s seriously it. Don’t dress it up in spiritual hogwash- it’s a fact of history."

To which I responded it is not a fact of history. It is a reason that non-Catholics use to justify their disagreement with the doctrine, but it isn’t factual. I didn’t have anything other than the tracts on this site, which I already linked to him, as an explanation. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Delaine75]

One thing I have learned is that there is zero point in trying to explain something to someone whose mind is not open to receive the facts you present to him/her. I wish I would have learned this loooong ago – sure would have saved me a lot of time and aggravation trying to get through to people who were just humoring me!

I was taught in RCIA class that the priests are married to the Church. Can someone have sex with the Church? No, of course not. Probably why they are celibate! And I have no idea what to say about the inheritance thing… really sounds like this person has too much time on their hands.

 

[wasserfall]

Would it make sense to say that the children of a man who works for IBM have a right to inherit IBM’s property?

True, a priest is not really in an employee relationship with the Church, but surely the principle of distinguishing between individual property and corporate property applies in a similar way.

 

[aicirt]

I’ve heard this too from non Catholics. Yes, it is true that priests are married to the Church. But I’d like a better idea of how the Church obtained property in order to have an intelligent answer.

For instance, a title and the lands of the lord went to the oldest surviving son. Next son became a soldier and went off to make his fortune. Third son maybe became a priest on the fast track to bishop or cardinal.

Interestingly, kings did not read nor write. Maybe they knew how to sign their name but probably used a seal. The priests in court were the ones who read and wrote. I believe Charlamagne was one of the first to insist on learning to read.

During the Prostestant Reformation, Church holdings…abbys, churches, monasteries…were confiscated by the Kings in England and Germany. The Pope was ruler in most of Italy until the 1870s when he was limited to what we now know as the Vatican. Before the Papal States included a large chunk of Italy. With the fall of the Roman Empire, the people ran to the Pope for protection. The Vatican, as we now know it, was not established until 1929 under a treaty with the Pope and Mussolini.

Another fallacy is that citizens of Italy still pay taxes to the Pope. They don’t. They can choose which charitable institution they want to give a portion of their taxes.

I don’t know why they want to push the idea of priests marrying. It is not going to happen. They might like to share how well it works for most ministers. Their wives and children have a difficult time.

 

[Theophorus]

Ok, I was discussing priests and the fact that they stay celibate. The person said this
"I’m an atheist. I see no truth in this discussion at all. I’m merely sharing views that I have encountered.

Also, the only reason priests can’t marry in the Catholic Church is because the Church had no interest in their children inheriting church property. That’s seriously it. Don’t dress it up in spiritual hogwash- it’s a fact of history."

To which I responded it is not a fact of history. It is a reason that non-Catholics use to justify their disagreement with the doctrine, but it isn’t factual. I didn’t have anything other than the tracts on this site, which I already linked to him, as an explanation. Any help would be appreciated.

what nonsense, the children couldn’t inherit church property even if they wanted to. it belongs to the Church not to the priest.

one of the good things that did result from celibacy however was that offices in the church were not inherited. In feudal Europe at the time the son taking over from the father was norm in most trades. One of the by-products of priestly celibacy was to divorce the Church from the feudal system and help to establish independence.

Historically of course celibacy goes back to St. Paul.

 

[aicirt]

Would it make sense to say that the children of a man who works for IBM have a right to inherit IBM’s property?

True, a priest is not really in an employee relationship with the Church, but surely the principle of distinguishing between individual property and corporate property applies in a similar way.

I think the argument is if a priest inherits from his parents, the property or a great portion of it goes to the Church. If the Church allowed priests to marry, his family would want to keep the property and not give it to the Church.

 

[atheistgirl]

How do the Eastern Rite catholic priests manage?

They’re catholic, in full communion with Rome, and they can get married?

So it’s not true to say Catholic priests can’t get married, is it?

Sarah x

 

[aicirt]

How do the Eastern Rite catholic priests manage?

They’re catholic, in full communion with Rome, and they can get married?

So it’s not true to say Catholic priests can’t get married, is it?

Sarah x

I personally don’t know any Eastern Rite Catholics. I believe that those who do marry stay at a certain level and may not move up any higher than perhaps bishop status.

Yes, all the apostles with the exception of John, were married. Christ wasn’t. His Bride is the Church which is us.

 

[jilly4ski]

I personally don’t know any Eastern Rite Catholics. I believe that those who do marry stay at a certain level and may not move up any higher than perhaps bishop status.

Yes, all the apostles with the exception of John, were married. Christ wasn’t. His Bride is the Church which is us.

In the Eastern rites as well as Eastern Orthodox, a married man may become a priest (but he cannot get married after his ordination) and he cannot become a bishop (or anything higher).

Something we must recognize historically is that the majority of priests were actually monks and friars (especially in those areas that were mission fields). Thus as religious they were celibate. This was true for the Latin rite, the Eastern Rites, and the Eastern Orthodox.

 

[aicirt]

In the Eastern rites as well as Eastern Orthodox, a married man may become a priest (but he cannot get married after his ordination) and he cannot become a bishop (or anything higher).

Something we must recognize historically is that the majority of priests were actually monks and friars (especially in those areas that were mission fields). Thus as religious they were celibate. This was true for the Latin rite, the Eastern Rites, and the Eastern Orthodox.

So when did it change for them? When were the Eastern churches allowed to marry?

And what’s the reason why deacons can’t remarry after their wives die? I understand the reasoning with priests but with the shortage of all, why limit deacons?

 

[jilly4ski]

So when did it change for them? When were the Eastern churches allowed to marry?

And what’s the reason why deacons can’t remarry after their wives die? I understand the reasoning with priests but with the shortage of all, why limit deacons?

? What do you mean change? There was a change to priestly celibacy in the Latin rite in the 12th century I believe. So everyone before the 12th century were allowed to marry prior to ordination.

Deacons cannot remarry because they are ordained, and like all who are ordained, it is an impediment to a valid marriage. (And a long standing tradition in both the East and West.

None of that changes the fact that all religious priests (monks and friars) were celibate and made up the majority of those who were ordained during that time.