Priests more into psychology than Jesus..

[distracted]

I have heard some very worldly advice coming from priests these days, whether in homilies or in the confessional or wherever…

This one priest, during confession, got very irritated w/ me because i wouldn’t agree to take psych drugs… When i said that (something to the effect of) i would rather carry my cross… He got angry and said something about … that i was inflicting crosses on others… Little does he know… I don’t socialize much, so can’t inflict too much of my cross on anyone… & when i do socialize, i try not to do such things…

anyway… another priest suggested i get counseling about this issue i brought up… Then he kept bringing up an issue from my distant past, went on and on about how i need to be healed of tht, even though i told him, in effect, that Jesus had already healed me and was continuing the process of healing… He seemed to ignore the issue i thought was most important… to focus on what he thought was important…

It just seems that priests nowadays (a lot of them) are more into psychology than spiritualiity… and True Psychology comes from Jesus… the one who knows us perfectly…

Have you experienced this or something like it??

 

[jfoges]

The gospel does not replace the medical science of psychology, anymore then the gospel replaces the medical sciences in general. There is a sect, the Christian Scientists who do not go to the doctor because they believe God will heal them of whatever health problems they have. You sound like one of these people. If you have something psychologically wrong with you, then you should recieve medical treatment. I don’t know about your situation personally, but your reasoning seems all wrong.

 

[Ahimsa]

…and True Psychology comes from Jesus… the one who knows us perfectly…

Have you considered the possibility that Christ inspired the science of medical psychology, so that it could help people?

 

[Salonika]

While we can never be sure of all the reasons that priests, and other people close to us, suggest particular methods of becoming healthier spiritually, psychologically and physically, usually they have our best interests at heart. I think we have the obligation to listen to their suggestions/recommendations and to consider them with an open mind. In the end the decision to act on their suggestions is ours.

To me spirituality and psychology go hand in hand and reinforce each other so it is unwise not to use both. Counselling can help us identify issues and plan how to overcome them more quickly than we would otherwise.

I am grateful for a number of psychological insights that have made my life easier and more fulfilling. Probably the most was being assured that introverts and extraverts have their strengths and weaknesses and that my way of socialising (I’m an introvert who prefers one to one discussions or discussions in small groups) is only different not better or worse.

Also keep in mind that Jesus knew a thing or two about psychology.

 

[OnlyAmbrose]

My favorite confessor offers a nice mix of both… we DO live in the world, after all, and in this world past experiences and genetic tweaks do cause problems. A priest is well within his territory, I think, to suggest psychiatric help for something he thinks has to do with that.

 

[SanJudas]

One hundred-and-some years of “psychotherapy” and people nowadays are crazier than ever! A good Father Confessor can do anything a therapist can do and do it better, because he has the grace of Our Lord Jesus Christ operating through him. Many, if not most, psychiatrists and psychologists are confirmed atheists and arrogantly dismiss as “primitive superstition” any mention of sin, guilt, or demonic influence. They mistakenly believe that the brain activities they so earnestly measure are the cause, not the result, of a patient’s emotions, thoughts, and attitudes.

Having said that, I will also say, before someone starts comparing me with Tom Cruise, that there are legitimate cases of chemical imbalances, trauma to the brain or nervous system, and organic dysfunctions originating in other parts of the body, which may indeed have a medical solution. I would further argue, however, that any doctor or psychiatrist who does not possess an understanding of the teachings of the Catholic Faith and believe in them, will ultimately be ineffective, unless God wills it otherwise.

 

[LilyM]

One hundred-and-some years of “psychotherapy” and people nowadays are crazier than ever! A good Father Confessor can do anything a therapist can do and do it better, because he has the grace of Our Lord Jesus Christ operating through him. Many, if not most, psychiatrists and psychologists are confirmed atheists and arrogantly dismiss as “primitive superstition” any mention of sin, guilt, or demonic influence. They mistakenly believe that the brain activities they so earnestly measure are the cause, not the result, of a patient’s emotions, thoughts, and attitudes.

Having said that, I will also say, before someone starts comparing me with Tom Cruise, that there are legitimate cases of chemical imbalances, trauma to the brain or nervous system, and organic dysfunctions originating in other parts of the body, which may indeed have a medical solution. I would further argue, however, that any doctor or psychiatrist who does not possess an understanding of the teachings of the Catholic Faith and believe in them, will ultimately be ineffective, unless God wills it otherwise.

Not so much, in my experience. I’ve candidly told doctors, psychiatrists and psychologists that I seriously practice my Catholic faith and they’ve never been anything less than accepting. Some have even been encouraging, being at least in general aware of the many psychological benefits of practicing a religious faith.

As one example, a psychologist wanted to give me an audio recording of so-called ‘mindfulness’ exercises. She took care first to state that at a more advanced level mindfulness practices are linked to Buddhist religion/philosophy, but that I would likely find nothing in what she was giving me that would conflict with my faith. Her tone at least suggested that if I found it did I was free to not use them.

 

[KingAlfred]

I have heard some very worldly advice coming from priests these days, whether in homilies or in the confessional or wherever…

This one priest, during confession, got very irritated w/ me because i wouldn’t agree to take psych drugs… When i said that (something to the effect of) i would rather carry my cross… He got angry and said something about … that i was inflicting crosses on others… Little does he know… I don’t socialize much, so can’t inflict too much of my cross on anyone… & when i do socialize, i try not to do such things…

anyway… another priest suggested i get counseling about this issue i brought up… Then he kept bringing up an issue from my distant past, went on and on about how i need to be healed of tht, even though i told him, in effect, that Jesus had already healed me and was continuing the process of healing… He seemed to ignore the issue i thought was most important… to focus on what he thought was important…

It just seems that priests nowadays (a lot of them) are more into psychology than spiritualiity… and True Psychology comes from Jesus… the one who knows us perfectly…

Have you experienced this or something like it??

Yes and no. Only you will know, in the end. Spirituality plays a huge part in emotional and psychological recovery and/or coping, and that’s something many professional mental healthcare providers can’t gage, and are hesitant to recognize as a cure or final form of treatment. Your priests are probably just echoing that concern – that is, that while spirituality is vital, you must ensure you’ve given professional care every opportunity to help you before terminating treatment.

Be that as it may, sometimes there’s only so much therapy one can undergo before it becomes counter-productive. Sometimes it’s best to keep your own ‘outcomes’ and ‘conclusions’ to yourself. Every therapist has his or her own opinion on everything, and it can get very confusing if one believes everything that’s said literally.

I have a speech-block, which is an emotional issue few psychologists understand. While they can give good counselling on how to cope with its side-effects (ie, low self-esteem, anxiety when speaking, nerviousness, etc., etc.), they don’t know much about how it develops and molds one’s personality. The most knowledgeable types in this field are speech pathologists. Once I realized that, I was able to manage my own problem. Psychologists and shrinks just don’t study it, and therefore don’t know anything about it. Listening to them on this matter can actually be harmful.

 

[bpbasilphx]

This one priest, during confession, got very irritated w/ me because i wouldn’t agree to take psych drugs… When i said that (something to the effect of) i would rather carry my cross… He got angry and said something about … that i was inflicting crosses on others.

**Even from childhood I suffered from clinical depression, though I didn’t know to call it that.

In the last few years I have been on antidepressants. The one I was taking was changed to another when I was diagnosed with kidney trouble, and I’m still doing fine.

Every day when I take my pill, I thank God for the provision He’s made for me.

If the right medicine will work for you, then HUMBLE YOURSELF and accept it as God’s provision and healing for you.

As far as not inflicting your cross on others, we had a saying in the monastery: Beware of the brother whose humility you’re always tripping over. You shouldn’t climb your way to heaven on the backs of others.

A word to the wise…**

 

[distracted]

Have you considered the possibility that Christ inspired the science of medical psychology, so that it could help people?

yes i have… but i am not going to take advice from a priest who 1) interrupted me before i could tell him much of anything and 2) get irritated so easily and 3) goes on and on about his own psych problems and how he himself is on drugs… Was he just trying to justify his own use (over use?) of drugs? Who knows? he just seemed to be in his own little world. And also, if Jesus seems to be tellingme to stay away from drugs and bear my cross… i am going to listen to him… over mere men…

 

[distracted]

The gospel does not replace the medical science of psychology, anymore then the gospel replaces the medical sciences in general. There is a sect, the Christian Scientists who do not go to the doctor because they believe God will heal them of whatever health problems they have. You sound like one of these people. If you have something psychologically wrong with you, then you should recieve medical treatment. I don’t know about your situation personally, but your reasoning seems all wrong.

i don’t know if i want to responde to a poster who says thins like “your reasoning seems all wrong”…

 

[distracted]

While we can never be sure of all the reasons that priests, and other people close to us, suggest particular methods of becoming healthier spiritually, psychologically and physically, usually they have our best interests at heart. .

i probably should have told more of the story about the priest… He was incredibly rude, didn’t listen, and when i got agitated… because of what he was saying… I asked if i could have some time to gather my thoughts about my actual sins… he just siad i could take all the time i want because he was leaving… and he left.

Another thing is that my PTSD is so bad that i don’t trust Anyone… i been burnt by psych doctors in the past and i cannot trust any of them… (LOng story that i don’t really want to get into…but basically, this one distorted what i said, BADLY [in his report] )…

 

[distracted]

Yes and no. Only you will know, in the end. Spirituality plays a huge part in emotional and psychological recovery and/or coping, and that’s something many professional mental healthcare providers can’t gage, and are hesitant to recognize as a cure or final form of treatment.

That is FOR SURE… This priest and another i am htinking about… seem to focus only on the psychological aspect of a person’s problems… They made no mention of the benefits to be derived form spending time with Jesus at the Blessed Sacrament. It is almost like priests and many other Catholics have forgotten about the Real Presence… What better healing can you get than from Jesus Christ hismefl?

Of course, a lot of that “healing” is lost when one goes away form his presence… but then i just try to remember, when outside his presence, the messages he gave me when i was… Not always easy… but anyway…

Your priests are probably just echoing that concern – that is, that while spirituality is vital, you must ensure you’ve given professional care every opportunity to help you before terminating treatment.

If i told you all that i have been through you would understand why i do not trust psych doctors…Therefore, it is NOT an option for me to go to conventional therapy. Maybe that is one reason Jesus gave us the Real Presence?? I mean, wouldn’t he KNOW that some people just could not trust other humans?? He knew sin better than anyone… and its consequences… He knew how fragile we can be… etc…
It just seems tha a lot of Catholics (and most Protestants) do not appreciate fully the Real Presence…

. Sometimes it’s best to keep your own ‘outcomes’ and ‘conclusions’ to yourself.

SO, so true… It is true for me… What is that saying “this above all: To thine own self be true”… ?

Once I realized that, I was able to manage my own problem. Psychologists and shrinks just don’t study it, and therefore don’t know anything about it. Listening to them on this matter can actually be harmful.

i am glad someone understands… Every person has their own unique problems/crosses… (etc). We can never say that one form of treatment is best for all… In a way, i probably should have felt insulted by the priest’s suggestions to take drugs… (instead of handling the problems of my life my own way)… which i believe(d) were Christ’s way (the way of the cross)… Americans are always trying to relieve suffeirng… instead of accepting it… Mabye that is why we have so many neurotic people in this country… can’t accept suffering… and no, i am not saying that all suffering should be calmly accepted without doing anything abuot it. I definitely think a person should do something about any kind of pain… just not necessarily (always) what some so-called professional decides…Also, whatever happened to that great american god, Choice?? I should have the choice of NOT going to therapy… (to someone who doesn’t know me from Adam)… which brings me back to the point - that no one knows a person better than Jesus.)

 

[distracted]

My favorite confessor offers a nice mix of both… we DO live in the world, after all, and in this world past experiences and genetic tweaks do cause problems. A priest is well within his territory, I think, to suggest psychiatric help for something he thinks has to do with that.

normally, i would agree but… well, if you read my other posts here, you may understand my posiiton better…

 

[Layman]

I have the impression that priests are very busy these days. I’d guess they have to deal with a lot of ‘oxygen-thiefs’ or ‘psychic vampires’ as well. So I wouldn’t expect a lot from them. After all, I’m not paying them by the hour!

Also, as men, they are solution-oriented.

1. 
   *]Got a problem?
   *]Hmmm, here’s my solution.
   *]Not acceptable?
   *]Ok, NEXT!
   
   Heh, heh, after a few sessions in the confession box with middle-aged-ladies-with-problems I wonder how saintly I’d be [grin].
   
   I just want them to give me the absolution. I was in a cathedral a few days ago, the priest must have heard a hundred confessions that day; he was tired. I didn’t want to take up too much time. He still gave me a thoughtful penance, for which I was grateful.

 

[distracted]

One hundred-and-some years of “psychotherapy” and people nowadays are crazier than ever!

Couldn’t have said it better…

.A good Father Confessor can do anything a therapist can do and do it better, because he has the grace of Our Lord Jesus Christ operating through him. Many, if not most, psychiatrists and psychologists are confirmed atheists and arrogantly dismiss as “primitive superstition” any mention of sin, guilt, or demonic influence.

Again, very well said…

I would further argue, however, that any doctor or psychiatrist who does not possess an understanding of the teachings of the Catholic Faith and believe in them, will ultimately be ineffective, unless God wills it otherwise.

i have been to so-called Catholic therapists… and… i know i am going to get jumped on by others reading this but… She didn’t say or do anthign “wrong”… yet i still felt it was wrong to go to her & tell her all my “stuff”…

Sometimes you just can’t put a finger on why you feel something is wrong… But you know, it could be the Holy spirit telling you… and i don’t want to go against the HS… I have done that in the past and the result was disastrous…(duh:banghead: :hypno: uch: ) In fact, i suppose sin, generally speaking, can be defined as going against the HS…

I have often had the feeling i should do or not do something and when i went against that feeling, i suffered…

 

[distracted]

I
Heh, heh, after a few sessions in the confession box with middle-aged-ladies-with-problems I wonder how saintly I’d be [grin].

.

uh… not to be difficult or anything… but why the focus on middle-aged ladies with problems? Does no other age group or gender group have “problesm” that could… lead to you not being “saintly”??

 

[snhs]

i probably should have told more of the story about the priest… He was incredibly rude, didn’t listen, and when i got agitated… because of what he was saying… I asked if i could have some time to gather my thoughts about my actual sins… he just siad i could take all the time i want because he was leaving… and he left.

Another thing is that my PTSD is so bad that i don’t trust Anyone… i been burnt by psych doctors in the past and i cannot trust any of them… (LOng story that i don’t really want to get into…but basically, this one distorted what i said, BADLY [in his report] )…

I think perhaps you should show a little more charity towards the Priest. To begin with part of some psychological problems can be misunderstanding people’s motives/why they do/say things, I know I do it often enough myself and as far as I’m aware I don’t have any diagnosed problems. The Priest was probably just trying to help you, and by telling you about his own experiences he was quite possibly attempting to reinforce the fact that it’s perfectly possible to take the medication which is available and still do God’s work.

Another thing to remember is that a Priest is not trained as a psychologist nor to provide professional (medical) counselling. They can grant absolution, but if what you are telling them about is psychological/medical/personal/marital etc problems or backstory from your past, unless it is directly relevant to the sins, then often the only thing they can do in good conscience is to try to refer you to someone who is more qualified to help. Some will have saintly patience and sit there while someone recounts what they got for shopping last Tuesday or about how sinful Mrs. Jones down the road is but they almost always have other things to attend to, either related to the Parish/Diocesan/Charity/Personal matters. If it seemed best to him to leave you alone to calm down and think things over then I could see why he might do so.

From the advice here, you may want to look at none medication treatments, like the CBT and EMDR, but those require a pyschotherapist. If you do feel the need to consult a Priest about it you might be better choosing one you feel more comfortable talking to and arranging a time outwith the normal times for Confession.

It is understandable if you’ve had bad experiences with psych doctors in the past, but at the end of the day from what you’ve said they seem to be the people most qualified to help you. Your energies might be better spent finding one you feel you can trust rather than avoiding them entirely. A few bad psych doctors aren’t representative of all doctors any more than one or two bad Priests are representative of all Priests.

 

[Layman]

uh… not to be difficult or anything… but why the focus on middle-aged ladies with problems? Does no other age group or gender group have “problesm” that could… lead to you not being “saintly”??

It’s my opinion women want to talk more about their problems than men. At length. And** they don’t necessarily want a solution from you. The talking is enjoyable in itself.**

As a man, I feel tired even typing this [grin].

I once timed a female friend talking about her problems to me. I think she went on for a good 45 mins. I also found that as long as I said ‘um’ or ‘I see’ every so often, she was happy. Every time I suggested a solution to her problems, she wasn’t interested.

Nowadays I try to be blunt, but polite. I’m not obliged to waste my time and energy on those who don’t really want my advice.

My strategy is to quickly jolly them out of their funk if I can, and if I can’t, head for the hills. I think of the word ‘joviality’, and behave like a benevolent English Lord. I strive to be manly, and ‘Cut the Gordian knot’ of nonsense.

Never let other people wear you down with their negativity. Always leave 'em laughing, or just leave. [grin]

 

[Salonika]

Layman:

It’s my opinion women want to talk more about their problems than men…they don’t necessarily want a solution from you.

Yes, think it is an art to know if someone wants us to suggest a solution or whether they want to talk about a problem.

Also I think that many people, women included, talk to other people about their problems mainly to clarify them. If we misunderstand that and start giving advice prematurely then it can seem they don’t want a solution.

Some times describing a problem can also help us see the answers. And occassionally the person we have been talking to thinks we have given them the answer, when it has comes from within.

In the same way that priests should do, we should not go beyond our our experience and expertise as we can do damage.