Priests' opposing views on Latin Mass

[childofmary1143]

renewamerica.us/columns/abbott/071017

What sticks out the most in this Priest’s tirade is where he says “I fault the use of Latin as partly responsible for the rise and success of Hitler and his neo-pagan mythology which was obviously the religion he was supporting and that actually managed to capture the German imagination.”

I think the Motu Proprio is probably the best thing that has ever happened to the Church in a long time as it is bring certain clergy’s strange and heretical views into the open where it can be dealt with.

 

[HenryV]

renewamerica.us/columns/abbott/071017

What sticks out the most in this Priest’s tirade is where he says “I fault the use of Latin as partly responsible for the rise and success of Hitler and his neo-pagan mythology which was obviously the religion he was supporting and that actually managed to capture the German imagination.”

I think the Motu Proprio is probably the best thing that has ever happened to the Church in a long time as it is bring certain clergy’s strange and heretical views into the open where it can be dealt with.

What a daft priest latin had nothing to do with the SS and Hitler more like old german and norse languages.

 

[BobP123]

I’ve heard a lot of anti-Latin (it takes a lot of effort, can’t use it, etc.) comments in my life but that certainly takes the cake. How old is this priest? Did he know Hitler personally?

 

[Walking_Home]

The MP is bringing out the wolves in sheeps clothing–but I would wager there are many others still in hiding under the sheep skin.

 

[havemercy]

Eugh…Come on Father! You could at least give us some sources.

 

[SaintMaker]

First of all regarding original post, that is ridiculous! Amen to that. Now my question/comment may sound a bit Naive, but I attended a latin mass a couple of weeks ago. I was struck by it’s beauty but at the same time I did not feel like I was at Mass. More like a lovely service but give me my Mass back please. I’m not very young but too young to have the connection to Latin mass that others do. Please someone, open my mind, help me to understand why it would be so great to go back to Latin. This was btw, a very traditional Mass. We wore veils, His back was to us, we had to genuflect sometimes once, sometimes twice, etc. Thoughts?

 

[KnightforChrist]

**I **did not feel like I was at Mass."

My thoughts only.

Watch out for the “I” part and the “feeling” as it relates to one’s mortal senses.

Think about what it is you are receiving, not the senses, and what it is you are truly bringing before Christ.

If one, is fully aware and I mean fully that they are about to be receiving the body of Christ, we should have no other focus, especially on our personal mortal senses.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I agree with the above-“feeling” shouldn’t have anything to do with it. That’s the error that many of our Separated Brethren have fallen into in regard to their services and theology.

I didn’t have any connection to the Latin Mass either, other than the fact it was the Mass that my grandparents attended. By the time I was old enough to attend the Mass was in English.
However, when I attended my first Latin Mass a few years ago, I knew that there was a reason that God had led me there.

I have always felt that the miracle of the Eucharist was downplayed in the modern Mass. If Christ appeared to me right now-I wouldn’t be standing, I wouldn’t be thinking about anything else but falling to my knees in worship. That’s what happens at the Latin Mass and that’s why I’m still going there every week.

 

[otjm]

I agree with the above-“feeling” shouldn’t have anything to do with it. That’s the error that many of our Separated Brethren have fallen into in regard to their services and theology.

I have always felt that the miracle of the Eucharist was downplayed in the modern Mass. If Christ appeared to me right now-I wouldn’t be standing, I wouldn’t be thinking about anything else but falling to my knees in worship. That’s what happens at the Latin Mass and that’s why I’m still going there every week.

I have bolded and underlined what you wrote. Did you read it?

I ahve read through any nunmber of posts about the EF, and resoundingly, post after post, are people’s feelingsabout the EF.

To tell the poster that she should not be addressing the EF vs. OF based on her feelings flies in the face of so much that has been said in favor of the EF. Is your comment based on the fact that she didn’t feel as you think she should have? Or do you really say that liking the EF over the OF is not based on feelings?

I can relate to her post, not because of a Mass I attended under the EF, but because of a Mass I attended periodically in the OF said in Latin, and with a schola which has won intenational acclaim. I felt, after a Mass of Palistrina sung in prfessional 4 part harmony, that I had been to a concert rather than a Mass. It was a bit too professional, a bit too polished, and way too ornate.

Don’t misuderstand; the music was gorgeous; but I found it distracted from the Mass rather than added to it. Others may have felt (there we go with that word again!) otherwise. I can, however, understand her feelings.

 

[Ad_Deum]

Isn’t Hitler and his party hated the Catholic Church and killed many priests, nuns and believers (e.g. St. Maximilian Kolbe).
If that is the case, why this priest was crying about latin had something to do with Hitler’s heretical and hellish ideology, and paganistic religion. :dts: Hmmm… It seems the smoke of satan did really entered the Church after all. :knight2: I think this is the time for another inquisition to correct the heretical priests and nuns who only thinks of relativistic ideas and twisted progressive beliefs.

Pax

Let us keep and defend the TRUE FAITH revealed in the Holy Scriptures and pray for those who rebels against it.

 

[KnightforChrist]

Let us keep and defend the TRUE FAITH revealed in the Holy Scriptures and pray for those who rebels against it.

What about the magisterium ???

Does’t it contain truth relating to faith as well ??? Thought that relating to matters of faith and morals it was without error ?? Just curious as to whether this is only limited to Holy Scriptures.

 

[SaintMaker]

"otjm:

To tell the poster that she should not be addressing the EF vs. OF based on her feelings flies in the face of so much that has been said in favor of the EF.

Thanks for taking the time to understand what I was saying. You said it better than I. Peace.

I agree with the above-“feeling” shouldn’t have anything to do with it. That’s the error that many of our Separated Brethren have fallen into in regard to their services and theology.

I have always felt that the miracle of the Eucharist was downplayed in the modern Mass. If Christ appeared to me right now-I wouldn’t be standing, I wouldn’t be thinking about anything else but falling to my knees in worship. That’s what happens at the Latin Mass and that’s why I’m still going there every week.

Ahem, if you are going to point fingers at me for using the word “feel” … then I think the same should apply to you.

I am sad that you have misunderstood me. I am not one to travel to other parishes to find the church that makes me “feel” good. I know what I wrote did not imply that at all.

I was raised in a non-Latin Mass. I have never experienced Latin Mass before, though it was a lovely service it did not remind me of Mass. Does that help you to understand what I said?

I am a very traditional Catholic. I’ve never wavered in my faith. If the Pope said today, “All Masses Must be Latin.” I’d be there.

I was giving you the opportunity to open my mind, as well as others. I am evangelical by nature. I try to convert everyone. If I had the insight that you apparently have about Latin Mass I would want to share it and not shun someone because they asked.

Our faith should not be exclusive, it should be inclusive. We are a very privileged lot. Much has been given and much is expected. We are expected to share God’s message with everyone. I would never have been able to help with conversions if I took this approach.

KnightforChrist:

Watch out for the “I” part and the “feeling” as it relates to one’s mortal senses.

Think about what it is you are receiving, not the senses, and what it is you are truly bringing before Christ.

I’ll try to say this nicely. This is just plain insulting. What am I, five? I’m still not sure what I did to deserve this sort of thrashing. Maybe your intention was something else…?

 

[KnightforChrist]

No thrashing from me whatsoever. Not meaning to upset you, just pointing that out to you and anyone else reading.

Just that when one sees wording like “give me my Mass back”, we’ll one can’t help but question whether the central focus of the mass has been lost.

The eucharist you receive is the same Jesus, same body of Christ at all masses.

 

[Ad_Deum]

Let us keep and defend the TRUE FAITH revealed in the Holy Scriptures and pray for those who rebels against it.

The Magisterium of the Church came from the Holy Scriptures, for without Christ and His teachings revealed in the Bible we would not have the Church. True faith revealed in the Holy Scriptures may include the magisterium.

Pax

 

[KnightforChrist]

The Magisterium of the Church came from the Holy Scriptures, for without Christ and His teachings revealed in the Bible we would not have the Church. True faith revealed in the Holy Scriptures may include the magisterium.

Pax

ummm…didn’t Christ send the Holy Spirit at Pentecost to the Apostles before the first stroke of New Testament was written ??? The church was sent forth before the holy scriptures had been completed in full.

Weren’t disputes that were being resolved by the guidance of the holy spirit through the apostles, for instance , the instance with Peter happening before the first writing of new testament scripture ???

When the apostles were sent forth to teach all nations, did they have a complete leather bound bible in hand or was it the Holy Spirit who had come to guide them ???

So are you only referring to the old testament part of holy scripture or both new and old ???

Are you sola scripture by the way ???

 

[Brennan_Doherty]

First of all regarding original post, that is ridiculous! Amen to that. Now my question/comment may sound a bit Naive, but I attended a latin mass a couple of weeks ago. I was struck by it’s beauty but at the same time I did not feel like I was at Mass. More like a lovely service but give me my Mass back please. I’m not very young but too young to have the connection to Latin mass that others do. Please someone, open my mind, help me to understand why it would be so great to go back to Latin. This was btw, a very traditional Mass. We wore veils, His back was to us, we had to genuflect sometimes once, sometimes twice, etc. Thoughts?

SaintMaker,

Thanks for your post. And don’t worry, I think it is ok to use the word “feel”. After all, God did give us emotions. I also am too young to have an attraction to the Traditional Latin Mass (TLM) based on growing up with it. Nevertheless, I have become quite attached to it via learning more about it and its prayers, and assisting at a TLM a number of times.

It is understandable that one might feel a bit out of place attending the TLM the first time. It’s often not just that the language is different but the entire environment (Priest facing liturgical East, altar rails, incense, Gregorian chant, etc.) is different.

My only suggestion is to take a bit of time to familiarize yourself with it a bit more and perhaps even attend again as it takes a bit of time to be able to follow along as well as those who have been going longer.

If you don’t have a TLM missal, here is a link where you can read the prayers in English:

sacred-texts.com/chr/lmass/ord.htm

Also, as far as why the TLM, here is a link to an article by Dietrich von Hildebrand called “The Case for the Latin Mass”:

latin-mass-society.org/dietrich.htm

God bless.

 

[palmas85]

The Magisterium of the Church came from the Holy Scriptures, for without Christ and His teachings revealed in the Bible we would not have the Church. True faith revealed in the Holy Scriptures may include the magisterium.

Pax

The bible as we know it wasn’t fully set forth until the 300s. Prior to that there were numerous different books floating about in use by the various churches. The first books of the New Testament weren’t even written yet when the initial evangelization movement began. Paul for instance didn’t preach from scripture, he preached from divine revelation and old testament scripture which had prophesized the coming of the Messiah.

The Church existed long before scripture came on the scene and new testament scripture itself was approved and codified by the Church.

 

[KnightforChrist]

The bible as we know it wasn’t fully set forth until the 300s. Prior to that there were numerous different books floating about in use by the various churches. The first books of the New Testament weren’t even written yet when the initial evangelization movement began. Paul for instance didn’t preach from scripture, he preached from divine revelation and old testament scripture which had prophesized the coming of the Messiah.

The Church existed long before scripture came on the scene and new testament scripture itself was approved and codified by the Church.

Thanks palmas85 !!!

Also as Catholics we refer to the Catechism which illustrates our point that the authority given to the Church comes from Christ.

874 Christ is himself the source of ministry in the Church. He instituted the Church. He gave her authority and mission, orientation and goal

 

[Godi]

renewamerica.us/columns/abbott/071017

What sticks out the most in this Priest’s tirade is where he says “I fault the use of Latin as partly responsible for the rise and success of Hitler and his neo-pagan mythology which was obviously the religion he was supporting and that actually managed to capture the German imagination.”

I think the Motu Proprio is probably the best thing that has ever happened to the Church in a long time as it is bring certain clergy’s strange and heretical views into the open where it can be dealt with.

Hitler’s minions core anti-semitism came from Martin Luther and remember Martin Luther was a Priest (talk about heretical). I’m sure the thousands of Priests & Religious sent to the Concentration Camps would beg to differ.