Priests out of uniform

[FrCorey]

Try to be patient you all know i’m learning …
but
if i make it all the way thru to the land of Catholicism. and i’m (heaven forbid) in a wreck. does a priest just walk away if it is his day off or will he give me the last rite biznez? if he is in lay clothing how will i know he is really a priest and not some wacko playing pretend ? if I am supposed to just take his word then i can just accept absolution from anybody who claims priest hood? Or do they carry some kind of ID card? if they do in my dieing moment am i expected to check his ID?
i want to be clear that i do not think they should be with out personal time . it’s not that i think they shouldn’t be allowed to wear civies. i just am not sure how i am supposed to know with out the habit
also if went through school to be a priest i would be proud to wear my habit … just as i would be proud to wear my fatigues if i were a soldier or my white robe were i a doctor. I don’t really understand why everyone is acting as if the collar is lined in spikes… i realize there are down sides to wearing a habit but … it is supposed to be an outward sign of your (a priest, nun, monk) devotion to religious life and god isn’t it? .

I can understand your concerns. While I am an orthodox priest and not a roman, we do not get id cards. Our tradition says we should always be in clerics. If people want a police officer, they look for a uniform. But I can also understand why some take them off once in a while too. Case in point. In las vegas there have been priests arrested for various violent and immoral crimes. I know of a few priests that have been spit on and shoved off of sidewalks. I do not judge them as this is a personal thing they must deal with. Times are getting worse and priests must grin and bear it. While many denoniations wear a black clergy shirt, mostly only catholics wear a habit or cassock. I can see the benefit of secular clothing too. Some orders, like Benedictines do everything in their habits. In these times we need to be in clerics as much as we can, so people can seek us out if they need us. And I am brave, here in las vegas, try wearing a collar shirt in the 125 degree heat, let alone a habit or cassock.

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[PbloPicasso]

I will add this. I knew one monk that confessed to me in private that when he was allowed to go home to visit family, he engaged in using drugs and participated in orgies. I nearly fell out of my chair and suspected he might be fishing to see what kind of man I am. I shook my head at him in disgust and surprise that he’d even tell me his trash. He told me that’s why he joined the monastic order, which is not a reason to make vows. I just got up and moved away from him. Its amazing just how intrusive the secular world has infected all areas of Church life, bishops, priests, deacons, religious and the laity. That’s why we need more tenatious spirited men and women to take on their habits and clerics to stand out boldly, but gentle. One deacon I knew had preppy clerics specially made. I nearly died laughing. How could he have missed the memo on piety? I don’t know if he continued on to become a priest.

 

[PbloPicasso]

I can understand your concerns. While I am an orthodox priest and not a roman, we do not get id cards. Our tradition says we should always be in clerics. If people want a police officer, they look for a uniform. But I can also understand why some take them off once in a while too. Case in point. In las vegas there have been priests arrested for various violent and immoral crimes. I know of a few priests that have been spit on and shoved off of sidewalks. I do not judge them as this is a personal thing they must deal with. Times are getting worse and priests must grin and bear it. While many denoniations wear a black clergy shirt, mostly only catholics wear a habit or cassock. I can see the benefit of secular clothing too. Some orders, like Benedictines do everything in their habits. In these times we need to be in clerics as much as we can, so people can seek us out if they need us. And I am brave, here in las vegas, try wearing a collar shirt in the 125 degree heat, let alone a habit or cassock.

Awe, come on padre, man up. (Just joking.) Surely you’ve seen the new breeze wear clerics? The net material made from virgin cotton and the new fully open collar with a white scarf to drape around the neck. The shorts are wonderful in the fresh California air. You might find yourself on Vogue Magazine. Truly the fashion of the day. LOL. Yes, I hate to wear ties in that kind of weather. It’s not only uncomfortable, its unsafe.

 

[JHow]

…The shorts are wonderful in the fresh California air…

Um, Las Vegas is in Nevada…and it’s crazy hot in the summer.

 

[JHow]

One of the deacons at my parish is retired from the post office. He was a letter carrier and he said he walked the same route for decades (in his postal uniform) and knew most of the people along the route. He said, though, that sometimes he would see people on his route in other contexts out of uniform (like at the grocery, or something) and he would say “Hi” and they wouldn’t recognize him. Sometimes I think, whether you want it to or not, a uniform becomes part of who you are.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

As someone who has worn a uniform (when I was a full time paramedic or working as a volunteer firefighter/medic) my habit is not a uniform.

Lay people may think it is so, but it is much more than that. These jobs who have uniforms do not have rules of life to live nor do they have constitutions to live by.

I am governed by those through my vow of obedience and there are times where I am allowed out of my habit. It does not matter to me in any way that some laity dislike this, as I said before, they are not the authority to which my obedience is given.

 

[ciero]

As someone who has worn a uniform (when I was a full time paramedic or working as a volunteer firefighter/medic) my habit is not a uniform.

Lay people may think it is so, but it is much more than that. These jobs who have uniforms do not have rules of life to live nor do they have constitutions to live by.

I am governed by those through my vow of obedience and there are times where I am allowed out of my habit. It does not matter to me in any way that some laity dislike this, as I said before, they are not the authority to which my obedience is given.

I agree a religious habit is NOT a uniform, but it does serve the same purpose. And just because the constitutions of your order allow for something dosent make it right.

And if I might add…there was no reason for you to make this into a personal attack on you. No one was pointing any fingers but you took things personally. Feeling like your doing something wrong?

And one more thing…how do you know who here is a lay person and who is a religious or a priest? How do I know who you are? I know MANY priests and religious who would totally disagree with you. People here were expressing their own opinions as to if it is better for a priest to wear clericals, every one is entitled to their opinion.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I agree a religious habit is NOT a uniform, but it does serve the same purpose. And just because the constitutions of your order allow for something dosent make it right.

And if I might add…there was no reason for you to make this into a personal attack on you. No one was pointing any fingers but you took things personally. Feeling like your doing something wrong?

And one more thing…how do you know who here is a lay person and who is a religious or a priest? How do I know who you are? I know MANY priests and religious who would totally disagree with you. People here were expressing their own opinions as to if it is better for a priest to wear clericals, every one is entitled to their opinion.

Hmmmm…

ByzCath;7335010:

While these two examples are great, they are not the whole story.

As a religious I respectfully disagree with your opinion.

This thread seems to be just another case of the laity trying to push their wants and needs onto religious rather than respecting us and our ways of life.

Since when is it a vowed religious’ way of life to take off their habits and wear civies?

Sounds like MODERNISM to me.

Seems like a very personal attack.

 

[StTommyMore]

I agree a religious habit is NOT a uniform, but it does serve the same purpose. And just because the constitutions of your order allow for something dosent make it right.

And if I might add…there was no reason for you to make this into a personal attack on you. No one was pointing any fingers but you took things personally. Feeling like your doing something wrong?

And one more thing…how do you know who here is a lay person and who is a religious or a priest? How do I know who you are? I know MANY priests and religious who would totally disagree with you. People here were expressing their own opinions as to if it is better for a priest to wear clericals, every one is entitled to their opinion.

Aparrently everyone is entitled to an opinin…unless they disagree with you , that is. He was just expressing his opinion, which differed from yours, and you jumped all over him.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

And just because the constitutions of your order allow for something dosent make it right.

One thing to add. You are not the judge of this. Neither is anyone not a member of the order to which the constitutions belong. It is a matter for us to decide and Rome to approve.

So it is the Church that judges if something in the constitutions is right, and if it decides that they are not, then we must change them.

As the Constitutions stand today, they are right.

 

[The_Old_Medic]

I had numerous Priests visit me in the 1950’s and early 1960’s, on a social basis. Some wore civvies, and others wore clerical garb. I remember the first time i ever saw a Priest wearing Bermuda shorts and a Hawaiian shirt. I was more than a little surprised.

Yes, Priests CAN wear non-clerical clothing when off duty, on vacation, etc.

 

[FrCorey]

I had numerous Priests visit me in the 1950’s and early 1960’s, on a social basis. Some wore civvies, and others wore clerical garb. I remember the first time i ever saw a Priest wearing Bermuda shorts and a Hawaiian shirt. I was more than a little surprised.

Yes, Priests CAN wear non-clerical clothing when off duty, on vacation, etc.

I thought the shorts were for under the cassock?

 

[Bluegoat]

There is a good reason latitude is given about such things. The priest in question is almost always the best person to make the decision about what is the most appropriate to wear. One priest may find he connects better with people when he is dressed in regular clothes. Others may find more visibility is better. It will depend on the type of work he is doing and his own personality

Some priests may find they need to be have time “off” from being visible more than others - some people really need their private time to recharge, or they can’t do their jobs when they need to. This is especially true in places where there is a shortage.

Most of the Anglican priests I know are fairly traditional, and consider it important to wear their collar or a cassock most of the time in public. OTOH, when they go on vacation, or on their regular day off, they may not, because they know they and their family need some quiet times and time together.

Sometimes I think people don’t get how little time priests get. My priest has no week-day evenings where he gets to have supper with his family. Well, that IS part of being a priest, and I haven’t heard them complain. But we want them to be happy and healthy, and if that means occasionally going without a collar, that is their judgement to make.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

There is a good reason latitude is given about such things. The priest in question is almost always the best person to make the decision about what is the most appropriate to wear. One priest may find he connects better with people when he is dressed in regular clothes. Others may find more visibility is better. It will depend on the type of work he is doing and his own personality

Some priests may find they need to be have time “off” from being visible more than others - some people really need their private time to recharge, or they can’t do their jobs when they need to. This is especially true in places where there is a shortage.

Most of the Anglican priests I know are fairly traditional, and consider it important to wear their collar or a cassock most of the time in public. OTOH, when they go on vacation, or on their regular day off, they may not, because they know they and their family need some quiet times and time together.

Sometimes I think people don’t get how little time priests get. My priest has no week-day evenings where he gets to have supper with his family. Well, that IS part of being a priest, and I haven’t heard them complain. But we want them to be happy and healthy, and if that means occasionally going without a collar, that is their judgement to make.

 

[fkb]

When I started this thread, which happens to be the first one I’ve contributed to on this forum, I had hoped to see a respectful exchange of information and perspectives. No one contributes to these things expecting to change the status quo or to force a change upon anyone. Just as individuals we are not perfect, this issue of clergy attire is not above reproach. So let’s share some ideas – pro and con.

However, the comments have deteriorated into some people taking opinions personally and others making personal attacks. It really denigrates the forum. Can I suggest we get back to keeping to the issue, being polite, and not getting personal.

Thank you.

FKB

 

[fkb]

I think this forum is really great. I’m learning so much, such as I didn’t know there was so many “brands” of Catholicism.

So here is my questions, posed with great respect, because I don’t know the differences among the “brands”:

Could the issue of clergy attire or the laity’s perspective about their clergy’s attire be influenced by among the various sects of the Catholic Church? For example, I note that I am Roman Catholic, but notice contributions by members of the Byzantine Catholic Church, Latin, and Catholic in general. I acknowledge the obvious that attitudes toward attire vary among communities, but didn’t know if there was a more fundamental difference.

Thanks.

FKB

 

[JerrySeibert]

A uniform does not make anyone anything. As the uniform does not “Make a Marine” or a “Collar a Priest”. It is the person who gives tribute to the uniform he or she wears. And by not wearing it, does not take away from the sacrafice he or she endures to wear them.
Forgive me for being so bold, give them some space. A Priest or Nun give a normal life up in service to God. If they do not wear a ‘uniform’ it does not diminish from who they are. As I know in my heart my pastor would step in front of a bullet for anyone in his parish either with or without a collar. He does not wear attire ‘all the time’ but it does not diminish the respect I have of him. He is still a priest with or without a collar. And he has spoken of times he has been ‘clocked in’ during off time. On vacation he gave last rites to someone who was mortally wounded in a car wreck. Now, if God put him on that stretch of road far from home while he was on vacation, at the same time of that accident, do you really think he blessing was made inconsequential due to him wearing shorts and a tee shirt??? That would make no sense to me.
BLESS OUR PRIESTS AND OUR NUNS.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

When I started this thread, which happens to be the first one I’ve contributed to on this forum, I had hoped to see a respectful exchange of information and perspectives. No one contributes to these things expecting to change the status quo or to force a change upon anyone. Just as individuals we are not perfect, this issue of clergy attire is not above reproach. So let’s share some ideas – pro and con.

However, the comments have deteriorated into some people taking opinions personally and others making personal attacks. It really denigrates the forum. Can I suggest we get back to keeping to the issue, being polite, and not getting personal.

Thank you.

FKB

What did you expect? IMHO the title of the thread can be viewed as an opinion and an attack, that priests are “out of uniform”.

I don’t really think this topic can ever be discussed in a neutral manner except for stating what the Church does which is when a priest is working in a ministerial capacity he should be wearing clerical dress, out side of that the Church is silent and leaves up it up to the individual to decide for himself.

Also sometimes, as the Church recognizes, a priest who is not working in a ministeral capacity may be called in to do so and may not be dressed in such a manner.

Other than that, all we have is personal opinion and when some are of the opinion that a priest and/or religious should be dressed in a certain manner 24/7 then it is a personal attack on those who do not do so and on those who disagree, as has been evidenced by this thread.

 

[ciero]

What did you expect? IMHO the title of the thread can be viewed as an opinion and an attack, that priests are “out of uniform”.

I don’t really think this topic can ever be discussed in a neutral manner except for stating what the Church does which is when a priest is working in a ministerial capacity he should be wearing clerical dress, out side of that the Church is silent and leaves up it up to the individual to decide for himself.

Also sometimes, as the Church recognizes, a priest who is not working in a ministeral capacity may be called in to do so and may not be dressed in such a manner.

Other than that, all we have is personal opinion and when some are of the opinion that a priest and/or religious should be dressed in a certain manner 24/7 then it is a personal attack on those who do not do so and on those who disagree, as has been evidenced by this thread.

Once again “Br. David” taking things personal. Get a grip man!

 

[ciero]

One thing to add. You are not the judge of this. Neither is anyone not a member of the order to which the constitutions belong. It is a matter for us to decide and Rome to approve.

So it is the Church that judges if something in the constitutions is right, and if it decides that they are not, then we must change them.

As the Constitutions stand today, they are right.

Boy for someone who has said he was putting me on ignore you certainly have a lot to say! I wonder what your religious superiors would have to say about your postings here?