Priests out of uniform

[Joannm]

;
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I have read a number of things both Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI have written encouraging the clergy and religous to wear their clerical garb. I will try to post it here when I have the time.

padreb

Yet both popes were known to be seen without their clericals. John Paul II was photographed on the ski slopes and hiking in the mountains, and someone just last week posted a picture of our present Pope in a jacket and tie along with his priest brother, also in civvies.

My pastor own his own home outside of the parish and has a boat. He never wears his clericals at home or when boating. He usually wears them around the parish , except if he stops in to the office on his day off to pick up the mail. Does that make him less a priest? I don’t think so.

 

[Aramis]

I would’nt agree with the previous poster who said it is modernism, but 50 years ago you would never see a priest or religious without their clerical dress.

Rev Father,

The portion quoted simply is untrue. There is ample photographic documentation of the Fathers Ratzinger in suit and tie. And they are not the only ones. I’ve seen photos of Dominicans from the 1940’s in bluejeans and work shirts, doing manual labor.

And US Military Chaplains in their Military Uniforms, going back to the first World War or before.

 

[padreb]

Padreb–

Thank you for chiming in. I greatly appreciate having another clergy member contribute to the discussion, in addition to Br. David. The article looks very similar to the one referenced earlier and echoes some of the opinions made by the laity.

Can you cite where I can view the documents or speeches made by our two recent Popes?

Thank you.

FKB

I’ll see if I can find them for you.

 

[PbloPicasso]

Well, father, I have to agree with you because I’ve sent emails to my parish priest dealing with various issues that a “dad” is on duty 24/7 until he dies. Being a husband and a father is a vocation. We don’t get off after 5 or weekends. In fact, we really don’t get vacation. We worry the entire time we’re gone when the kids are young and vulnerable.

So I feel the same way but try to be charitable towards the ones that feel the need to “take off”. Sure, everyone needs a time alone with God, like on a retreat. But just as soon as the children start crying and acting up its time to throw in the towel and go to the aid of our children, our vocation. I feel a lot of clergy and religious would do much better if they understood the nature of their vocation better. Parents don’t change identities to hide or confuse people. Why should religious and clergy?

I have been reading this forum for a few years now, but have never posted before.

After reading this particular post and thinking about it for a few day I felt the need to coment.

I have been a priest for over 25 years, and with all due respect to Br. David OCD I must disagree with him. A priest or religious should always wear his habit or clerical dress. For over 25 years now I have never gone out in public without a cassock or at least a suit with Roman collar. A priest or religious is never off duty, that is the difference between a vocation and a job. In my opinion over the last few decades more and more priests have started seeing the priesthood as just another job. How many times have I heard from parishoners that Fr. X could’nt come to offer the last rites because it was his day off. I’m not saying that a priest or religious should never have a day off, but even on that day off they are still a priest or religious and should dress as such.

If you are going somewhere where clerical attire is not approprate maybe you should’nt be going there.

I would’nt agree with the previous poster who said it is modernism, but 50 years ago you would never see a priest or religious without their clerical dress.

Just my $.02 from many years in the trenches.

Blessings during this Holy Advent season.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

I do not think that priests should wear clerical dress all the time. I think some posters would have their priest go to bed in his choir cassock.

Being a priest is a vocation not a 9-5 job, true. Ordination brings about an ontological change. However, after that ontological change the priest remains a mere mortal human being. He is not changed into superman.

I believe that the overwhelming majority of priests are extremely committed to their vocation. They work long hours although some people think they only work on Sundays. They are also called upon to help people deal with what can be very emotional and harrowing circumstances. Both the hours they put in and the emotional things they have to deal with means that they need some down time.

Unlike us parents who are on duty 24/7 most of us are fortunate to have a spouse to whom we can turn and share both the psychological and physical burden. Priests do not.

Most priests now work single-handedly so they don’t even have a brother priest they could sit down with in the evening and talk about their day.

I have no problem with any priest having a day off and I know most would be quite willing to respond to emergencies on their day off.

If part of the downtime means putting on “civvies” I don’t have a problem with that. I think the character of the man in the clothes is more important than the clothes he wears. If my priest was to sit in the confessional in a pair of jeans and a hoodie I wouldn’t mind because he’s a very good priest. There’s some priests who could wear a black cassock, black sash, white surplice, purple stole, and black biretta and I wouldn’t go to them for confession.

Let’s give our priests the break they deserve!

 

[Bluegoat]

Well, father, I have to agree with you because I’ve sent emails to my parish priest dealing with various issues that a “dad” is on duty 24/7 until he dies. Being a husband and a father is a vocation. We don’t get off after 5 or weekends. In fact, we really don’t get vacation. We worry the entire time we’re gone when the kids are young and vulnerable.

So I feel the same way but try to be charitable towards the ones that feel the need to “take off”. Sure, everyone needs a time alone with God, like on a retreat. But just as soon as the children start crying and acting up its time to throw in the towel and go to the aid of our children, our vocation. I feel a lot of clergy and religious would do much better if they understood the nature of their vocation better. Parents don’t change identities to hide or confuse people. Why should religious and clergy?

I’m a mom with three small kids. My husband works away much of the time. When you are the only parent, you need to take breaks. I am strict about bed time for example because otherwise I would have no time to put my thoughts in order and would go nuts. The grandparents take the kids for a morning or day occasionally. And when their dad is home I try to get a weekend to myself at some point. Of course if your child goes into the ER, you go too. But if you don’t care for your own body and soul you won’t keep up. This is even more true for priests who bear so many spiritual burdens for people.

Even when there are two parents they need to take time for themselves, and for each other. Priests need time alone with God too.

When people can’t do this you get burn-out, or problems like alcoholism or other inappropriate ways of dealing with stress.

And really - if a priest hasn’t enough discernment to judge what he should wear, should he be a priest at all?

 

[Matthew_Holford]

Here is an article I think you might enjoy.

blog.beliefnet.com/deaconsbench/2010/07/why-a-priest-should-wear-the-collar.html

It would be very easy to write 23, and more, counter arguments that would be perfectly valid.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

http://www.theskichannel.com/image/news/20090724_Pope-John-Paul-II.jpg

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Well, father, I have to agree with you because I’ve sent emails to my parish priest dealing with various issues that a “dad” is on duty 24/7 until he dies. Being a husband and a father is a vocation. We don’t get off after 5 or weekends. In fact, we really don’t get vacation. We worry the entire time we’re gone when the kids are young and vulnerable.

So I feel the same way but try to be charitable towards the ones that feel the need to “take off”. Sure, everyone needs a time alone with God, like on a retreat. But just as soon as the children start crying and acting up its time to throw in the towel and go to the aid of our children, our vocation. I feel a lot of clergy and religious would do much better if they understood the nature of their vocation better. Parents don’t change identities to hide or confuse people. Why should religious and clergy?

Granted I don’t know THAT many priests…but isn’t that a different comparison? I don’t know of any priests that would not drop most things to go give the sacrements if they were needed in an emergency. If they had time, they would change.

When you are talking about being a dad…you don’t have a shirt marked DAD do you? Maybe you should have a uniform made that says that and wear it 24/7… Or course most dads have a mom to rely on also…

Hmm…and your kids never go off to school? No one comes and babysits?

 

[ConstantineTG]

How about if Eastern Father X or Anglican Use Father Y decides to take their wife to a romantic dinner? Should the still be in clerical garb? Given that in this part of the world its still unusual to have married priests.

 

[padreb]

How about if Eastern Father X or Anglican Use Father Y decides to take their wife to a romantic dinner? Should the still be in clerical garb? Given that in this part of the world its still unusual to have married priests.

Most Orthodox priests I know would.

 

[Bluegoat]

Most Orthodox priests I know would.

Anglican priests might. They might prefer not to just as a matter of privacy, but if they weren’t able to change it wouldn’t be a big deal.

I think I’ve only seen my priest in his collar, his cassock, and a referee uniform. Never in civies, even at home.

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

I have heard at least one priest say - this being Massachusetts - that they are terrified to go to a men’s room while wearing clericals. All that’s needed to ruin their life is for some teenage boy to decide to come out and claim that “the priest touched me,” and it would be all over. Priests around here seem to wear clericals as little as possible on their free time. Hard to disagree with that reasoning.

 

[PA650]

I do not think that priests should wear clerical dress all the time. I think some posters would have their priest go to bed in his choir cassock.

Being a priest is a vocation not a 9-5 job, true. Ordination brings about an ontological change. However, after that ontological change the priest remains a mere mortal human being. He is not changed into superman.

I believe that the overwhelming majority of priests are extremely committed to their vocation. They work long hours although some people think they only work on Sundays. They are also called upon to help people deal with what can be very emotional and harrowing circumstances. Both the hours they put in and the emotional things they have to deal with means that they need some down time.

Unlike us parents who are on duty 24/7 most of us are fortunate to have a spouse to whom we can turn and share both the psychological and physical burden. Priests do not.

Most priests now work single-handedly so they don’t even have a brother priest they could sit down with in the evening and talk about their day.

I have no problem with any priest having a day off and I know most would be quite willing to respond to emergencies on their day off.

If part of the downtime means putting on “civvies” I don’t have a problem with that. I think the character of the man in the clothes is more important than the clothes he wears. If my priest was to sit in the confessional in a pair of jeans and a hoodie I wouldn’t mind because he’s a very good priest. **There’s some priests who could wear a black cassock, black sash, white surplice, purple stole, and black biretta and I wouldn’t go to them for confession.
**
Let’s give our priests the break they deserve!

Perhaps you should avoid Raymond Cardinal Burke when he hears confessions. He typically would wear a cassock, et al. while hearing confessions as Archbishop of St. Louis.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Perhaps you should avoid Raymond Cardinal Burke when he hears confessions. He typically would wear a cassock, et al. while hearing confessions as Archbishop of St. Louis.

That would be a misreading of Matthew Holford’s post. He did not say he would avoid any priest who wears cassock, et al. He said that merely wearing such things did not automatically make someone a good priest.

 

[PA650]

That would be a misreading of Matthew Holford’s post. He did not say he would avoid any priest who wears cassock, et al. He said that merely wearing such things did not automatically make someone a good priest.

Certainly a valid opinion with some clarification.

 

[PbloPicasso]

When you are talking about being a dad…you don’t have a shirt marked DAD do you? Maybe you should have a uniform made that says that and wear it 24/7… Or course most dads have a mom to rely on also…

Hmm…and your kids never go off to school? No one comes and babysits?

Hmmm. sounds like you have a bone to pick.

And obviously you don’t get our community. I DO have many shirts that say “DAD” and wear them with pride. I wear my wedding ring too, or do you think that’s absurd as well? No offense to anyone, but when I sleep I do take my jewelry off. But during the day, or especially when I go to school with all of the single ladies in my classes I wear my wedding ring. I also wear my college ring and the schools I’ve attended, including a seminary shirt in public places. I also wear my Knights and Pro Life shirts in public places, like school, government buildings, work even. I do a lot of things you would probably define obnoxious simply because I wear the clothing. Unlike Catholics, I always evangelized when I was Protestant. It is something we are called to do. Only proselytizing is out of the question. We stood up to many “elders” and preachers in our previous faith that wanted to proselytize all of your children because we felt that it was wrong and out of sink with charity in that it undermines parental rights.

I’m wearing a Franciscan University t-shirt right now with my San Damiano Cross on the outside. Under my t-shirt is my brown scapular, which I only take off to wash or change or clean. I wear my faith on my shoulders but with grace to be prepare to give an account of why I believe. Why is this so difficult for people to understand. My car is covered in organizations related to my faith and evangelism tools, EWTN, Catholic Radio, Knights of Columbus, Rosary, Rosary hanging on my mirror (which I utilize), children’s schools, etc. I boast of my children pretty constant. People notice that I really love my children and my wife by the way I talk about them. I can’t help myself. I do it even when I’m feeling down about any of them. Why is this so difficult to understand. Or is this just a Catholic problem? Oh, I even wear my former faith t-shirts. I’m not ashamed to be known as “that Christian” or “that Catholic”…NUT! So what? Who matters other than God and my family?

 

[StTommyMore]

Hmmm. sounds like you have a bone to pick.

And obviously you don’t get our community. I DO have many shirts that say “DAD” and wear them with pride. I wear my wedding ring too, or do you think that’s absurd as well? No offense to anyone, but when I sleep I do take my jewelry off. But during the day, or especially when I go to school with all of the single ladies in my classes I wear my wedding ring. I also wear my college ring and the schools I’ve attended, including a seminary shirt in public places. I also wear my Knights and Pro Life shirts in public places, like school, government buildings, work even. I do a lot of things you would probably define obnoxious simply because I wear the clothing. Unlike Catholics, I always evangelized when I was Protestant. It is something we are called to do. Only proselytizing is out of the question. We stood up to many “elders” and preachers in our previous faith that wanted to proselytize all of your children because we felt that it was wrong and out of sink with charity in that it undermines parental rights.

I’m wearing a Franciscan University t-shirt right now with my San Damiano Cross on the outside. Under my t-shirt is my brown scapular, which I only take off to wash or change or clean. I wear my faith on my shoulders but with grace to be prepare to give an account of why I believe. Why is this so difficult for people to understand. My car is covered in organizations related to my faith and evangelism tools, EWTN, Catholic Radio, Knights of Columbus, Rosary, Rosary hanging on my mirror (which I utilize), children’s schools, etc. I boast of my children pretty constant. People notice that I really love my children and my wife by the way I talk about them. I can’t help myself. I do it even when I’m feeling down about any of them. Why is this so difficult to understand. Or is this just a Catholic problem? Oh, I even wear my former faith t-shirts. I’m not ashamed to be known as “that Christian” or “that Catholic”…NUT! So what? Who matters other than God and my family?

I have to wonder about a post that starts with an accusation and spends the rest of it boasting.

 

[PbloPicasso]

I have to wonder about a post that starts with an accusation and spends the rest of it boasting.

Wonder what? The person asked me if I wore a “Dad” shirt. And you’re doug gone tooten that I brag about my wife and kids. I’m proud of my vocation. What’s wrong with that? Maybe I could have worded it better. But why give a well thought out response to something so dense anyway. The lady that posted “against” me posed in an uncharitable way. I thought my post was funny. Sorry you don’t get it. I’m also upset over something else and that may be running over in the form of nuance embedded in adverse feelings over feeling like I wasted my time becoming Catholic to be told that my sacrifice was in vain because no one really wants to answer the Universal Call to Holiness or The New Evangelism. I was told tonight that my vocation to the diaconate was not important. That might as well be saying my vocation to marriage is unimportant.

 

[StTommyMore]

Wonder what? The person asked me if I wore a “Dad” shirt. And you’re doug gone tooten that I brag about my wife and kids. I’m proud of my vocation. What’s wrong with that? Maybe I could have worded it better. But why give a well thought out response to something so dense anyway. The lady that posted “against” me posed in an uncharitable way. I thought my post was funny. Sorry you don’t get it. I’m also upset over something else and that may be running over in the form of nuance embedded in adverse feelings over feeling like I wasted my time becoming Catholic to be told that my sacrifice was in vain because no one really wants to answer the Universal Call to Holiness or The New Evangelism. I was told tonight that my vocation to the diaconate was not important. That might as well be saying my vocation to marriage is unimportant.

The issue was your bragging about your scapular, and your FUS shirt, etc. I guess you have your reward.