Priests refuse to give Holy Communion to people kneeling

[Regina7]

My feeling is one of offense as well. Not just for the Priest saying Mass but all the many old religious sisters and brothers you see at Mass who after a lifetime of serving God, always bow and receive in the hand according to the norm. It’s as though some people think all those people aren’t as respectful of the Eucharist as they themselves are.

The bottom line is that we aren’t redeemed by discipline. We are redeemed by the infinite unmerited love of Christ. Pope Francis warned of the temptation of Pelagianism of the ‘restorationists’ for their over emphasis of formalism.

Did you read the OP? The problem is not condemning those who receive in the mouth which, as you say, is perfectly acceptable. The problem is the condemnation of those who want to receive kneeling, which is also acceptable.

I bet if the priest refused to allow communion in the hand, people here woukd be a lot more upset.

 

[Regina7]

I can understand rights and preserving the sacredness and all that, but if one isn’t willing to follow the house rules on receiving then perhaps he isn’t properly disposed to receive in the first place. One isn’t disrespecting the sacrament if he stays in his pew during communion distribution. Being in the state of grace is only one condition of being properly disposed. I think we’ve had this discussion before.

The “house rules” are from the Vatican, which permit kneeling. A priest cannot go against the Vatican.

 

[ProVobis]

The “house rules” are from the Vatican, which permit kneeling. A priest cannot go against the Vatican.

Yes, as long as one doesn’t make a nuisance of himself per Cardinal Arinze video.

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

Wow. Any priest that assaulted me from wanting to receive Communion kneeling would receive a prompt letter from my attorney.

Wow, just wow. We have really sunk pretty low when kneeling before Christ at Communion is looked upon disparagingly.

Or from my Canon Lawyer. My understanding is that the diocesan Tribunal in fact exists for more than just marriage cases, and is empowered as an ecclesiastical court to hear matters involving the violation of Canon Law. Perhaps an action against him in the Tribunal would get the priest’s attention - and I’d lead off with the assault charge.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

In the hand or kneeling on the tongue are both acceptable. Cardinal Arinze warns against people disparaging either form and reminds us that kneeling and on the tongue is the traditional and preferred method. Lately in our parish it has been parishioners who kneel and receive on the tongue who have been vilified.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

My wife and I had to attend Holy Mass at a different parish this past Sunday - our first time at this particular parish, in fact.

The parish we regularly attend only offers the Novus Ordo; but it is rather traditional and conservative in its culture. We, and many others at our parish, receive the Holy Eucharist on the tongue (I also genuflect before hand - not convinced that a mere bow is sufficient).

Anyways, when I went up to receive the Eucharist, the Eucharistic Minister had a look on her that almost made me laugh when I put my tongue out and not my hands. I am willing to bet that we were the only two at Mass that received the Eucharist that way.

The look on her face was priceless, but after a slight hesitation and realizing that I was not going to put my hand out, she placed the Eucharist on my tongue.

Poorly educated Eucharistic Ministers are part of the problem as well.

 

[SyroMalankara]

My feeling is one of offense as well. Not just for the Priest saying Mass but all the many old religious sisters and brothers you see at Mass who after a lifetime of serving God, always bow and receive in the hand according to the norm. It’s as though some people think all those people aren’t as respectful of the Eucharist as they themselves are.

The bottom line is that we aren’t redeemed by discipline. We are redeemed by the infinite unmerited love of Christ. Pope Francis warned of the temptation of Pelagianism of the ‘restorationists’ for their over emphasis of formalism.

I don’t have a particular dog in this argument since we always receive standing and on the tongue as our norm, however why would discipline and the unmerited love of Christ be in opposition? Discipline and Disciple have the same root.

 

[graciew]

Wow. Any priest that assaulted me from wanting to receive Communion kneeling would receive a prompt letter from my attorney.

Wow, just wow. We have really sunk pretty low when kneeling before Christ at Communion is looked upon disparagingly.

No…look at it the other way round…if one were asked to kneel at the moment of Communion , we would…even if the priest had no right… That very moment is not the time for fighting a " right “.
We can always have an apppointment later if necessary and go straightfowardly " Father , what is going on about Communion ? The other day…blabla bla” . Later ,in private. And talk it over.
Or as Pro Vobis said , you see it coming ,you just can t handle it ,remain seated…and ask later.
God gave us the priests too and we are their " family" in the parish .

 

[twf]

My feeling is one of offense as well. Not just for the Priest saying Mass but all the many old religious sisters and brothers you see at Mass who after a lifetime of serving God, always bow and receive in the hand according to the norm. It’s as though some people think all those people aren’t as respectful of the Eucharist as they themselves are.

The bottom line is that we aren’t redeemed by discipline. We are redeemed by the infinite unmerited love of Christ. Pope Francis warned of the temptation of Pelagianism of the ‘restorationists’ for their over emphasis of formalism.

Rome has made it 100% clear that every Latin Catholic anywhere in the world - in any parish, any diocese and at any mass - always has the right to receive kneeling. The appropriate clarifications from Rome have been posted elsewhere on this thread. At my cathedral in my archdiocese both standing and kneeling are considered norms and as I outlined in my previous post both are accommodated at all masses. When I attend mass in other dioceses / parishes where kneeling is not the norm, I have no issue standing… but it is absolutely, without a doubt wrong for a priest to REFUSE holy communion to someone for adopting a posture that is universally allowed.
The desire to kneel is scoffed at as Pelaganianism… what about physically grabbing the faithful and imposing standing with tyrannical rigidness… how is that OK? Forcing standing, one of two postures allowed by the Church, is the very definition of “over emphasis of formalism”.

No one in this thread condemned the practice of receiving communion while standing. There is also no indication that the individual in the OP’s account condemned this practice. The issue here is an individual was REFUSED Holy Communion for electing a posture that Rome has deemed universally acceptable. Its not only traditionalists who get obsessed over external forms…liturgical “liberals” can be just as obsessed over their pet issues as traditionalists are.

 

[mdgspencer]

I see from a video on one of these posts that if you write to the Vatican, you should write to the Congregation of Divine Worship there. (However, you should write to your bishop first, and then write the Congregation, if you wish to, only if he doesn’t act.)

 

[graciew]

. There is also no indication that the individual in the OP’s account condemned this practice. The issue here is an individual was REFUSED Holy Communion.

…and the.person refused to stand up…
Even if a priest had temporary " amnesia" at the very moment of giving Communion to one of us ,either kneeling or standing ,
that makes both priest and person receving , at fault of " amnesia" of the very moment that is going on.
I say yield on the spot.
And later fight it out as you wish with the priest in private.
Until your tongue gets dried. But do not defy him publicly refusing to.stand up at the very moment of receiving Communion.

 

[jschwartz]

Makes me glad I left the Roman Church.

I only go to high church Episcopal parishes where communion is taken kneeling by all, or to EF parishes.

 

[brian_custer]

probably the priest was tired & grumpy

i’d give him the benefit of the doubt

diocesan priests carry such a heavy load

they are the ground troops in the war against atheism

 

[Reuben_J]

She continued to refuse to stand. HE then rushed away from her. She remained kneeling for a long 3 more minutes or so.

Please do not do this. By doing that she was putting the attention on herself. It is not about whether the priest did not give her Communion or not, but that through her stubbornness in her action, she was bringing disrepute to the order of the mass.

Actually this is very simple matter, more so if she was a visitor to the parish. The presider of the mass has full control and he makes the decision during the mass. That would include not giving Communion to your friend if she did not comply with his rule. Your friend should have just received the Holy Communion standing, (there is nothing wrong in receiving it standing up) if that was what the priest wanted. If she was unhappy with it, she could bring the issue up to the Bishop. Demonstrating during the mass is not the way to go about it.

Personally I think the priest was wrong; he should have given Communion to her if she wanted to receive it kneeling down. But by refusing to stand up when the priest asked her to do so, did not make her right.

 

[Brendan]

Actually this is very simple matter, more so if she was a visitor to the parish. The presider of the mass has full control and he makes the decision during the mass. That would include not giving Communion to your friend if she did not comply with his rule. .

That is not true. The Church (Rome) is the one that develops the rules. Certain authority is then given by Rome to the local bishop, to the celebrant priest and to the faithful.

Where the authority is given to the local bishop, the celebrant priest and the faithful have no authority.

Where the authority is given to the celebrant priest, the bishop nor the faithful cannot overrule.

And where the authority is given to the faithful ( such as the position to receive Holy Communion) neither the priest nor the celebrant can overrule them.

Aquinas defined the Virtue of Obedience as conforming one’s will to the will of the one who has the authority in that realm.

It is Virtue of Obedience in each to recognize where the authority lay and to conform one’s will to that.

The Bishop practices the Virtue of Obedience when a celebrant priest chooses to say the Mass under an option provided by Rome to the priests, even when the bishop himself would choose another option.

The faithful practice the Virtue of Obedience, for example, when they stand after the Agnus Dei of the local bishop has declared it to be so in his diocese, even if they would prefer to kneel. Rome gave the local bishop that authority, so we recognize that authority and conform our wills to that.

The priest practices the Virtue of Obedience when he gives Holy Communion to a kneeling recipient, even if they prefer that they stand. Rome gave the authority to kneel (or stand) to the faithful, so the priest is then required, by Obedience, to conform his will to that that decision.

Since we desire Virtuous Priests, we are to desire that they conform their will to the directives of the Church, even if they feel otherwise.

That is the way of the Church and the command from Rome,

The person who kneels (or stands) is practicing Obedience, is it too much to ask the priest to do the same?

 

[sticknstring73]

I don’t know…but I really am offended by people who wish to “school” the priest on the Real Presence.

All these liturgy experts in the pews.
I feel sorry for the good priests.
They have to juggle all kinds of personalities. At Mass no less.

I don’t know if this is a case of schooling a priest as the priest just being flexible with the communicants. If someone wants to receive kneeling so what? I’ve never understood some priests anger at this.

The norm is actually on the tongue actually. This was told to me by my priest.

That said, myself I normally receive on the tongue, specifically because I am holier than most*, but have been known to also receive in the hand if I have a cold or feel I am about to sneeze and truthfully I am very thankful for the option.

(*Actual opinions may vary on this.)

 

[ProVobis]

Makes me glad I left the Roman Church.

I only go to high church Episcopal parishes where communion is taken kneeling by all, or to EF parishes.

You “left” the Roman Church but you still attend the EF parish. Interesting.

 

[ProVobis]

The priest practices the Virtue of Obedience when he gives Holy Communion to a kneeling recipient, even if they prefer that they stand. Rome gave the authority to kneel (or stand) to the faithful, so the priest is then required, by Obedience, to conform his will to that that decision.

Since we desire Virtuous Priests, we are to desire that they conform their will to the directives of the Church, even if they feel otherwise.

That is the way of the Church and the command from Rome,

The person who kneels (or stands) is practicing Obedience, is it too much to ask the priest to do the same?

As a practical matter, however, I’d extend that “command” to allowing kneeling off to the side or altar railings of some kind. Kneeling or genuflecting while people are walking around you can be quite disruptive to the flow, not to mention very prone to many accidents. I can understand why some priests frown on kneeling on the spot, though I don’t agree with it.

 

[kozlosap]

I can understand rights and preserving the sacredness and all that, but if one isn’t willing to follow the house rules on receiving then perhaps he isn’t properly disposed to receive in the first place. One isn’t disrespecting the sacrament if he stays in his pew during communion distribution. Being in the state of grace is only one condition of being properly disposed and one is only required to receive once during the Easter season. I think we’ve had this discussion before.

AMEN.

If the custom at the parish is to receive in the and you did not first notify the priest that you wish to receive kneeling, then there appears to be a problem of narcissistic behavior. To those who wish to make a political statement against V2, then please just head over to the SSPX chapel and enjoy making sure that the other worshippers understand that you are at the same level of abuse as those killed for upholding the teachings of Our Lord.

 

[Brendan]

As a practical matter, however, I’d extend that “command” to allowing kneeling off to the side or altar railings of some kind. Kneeling or genuflecting while people are walking around you can be quite disruptive to the flow, not to mention very prone to many accidents. I can understand why some priests frown on kneeling on the spot, though I don’t agree with it.

They can frown on it all they want, just as a lay person can frown on having to stand during the Agnus Dei. But in each case, they are called to practice the Virtue of Obedience.

The Virtue of Obedience means that the priest cannot impose his own will over that of the Church. The priest is given, by the Church and virtue of his Office, certain authority in the Mass. This case is not among those. He is not given, and thus has no, authority to determine posture.

When the recipient kneels for Communion, they commit no wrong, they are acting in Obedience to the Church, even if the ‘custom’ of a local parish is to receive standing.

If the priest attempts to impose his will on the recipient in that matter, that is an act of Vice and is unbecoming of any Catholic, let alone a priest.