Priests refuse to give Holy Communion to people kneeling

[naylordaisy]

All that is perfectly fine. The issue begins when the Priest quietly asks her to stand… and she chooses a position of defiant protest essentially. In the moment and the setting of Mass; the commemoration of the docile and humble acceptance of an unfair judgement upon Him, Jesus demonstrates a personal disposition most pleasing to the Father. St Mary MacKillop acquiesced to an unfair order of excommunication pronounced upon her with the attitude that God was testing her humility and obedience. We all know the position of ‘protest’ belongs to another denomination.

Thank you folks for these insights.
In the second incident regarding my male friend, he actually did stand up after the PP requested him to so as to avoid any problems. He was obedient even though he knew the PP was wrong.

Whatever about the woman choosing to remain kneeling or another person deciding it is best to stand upon request, overall the issue remains.

Most regular parishioners here have accepted the position of the PP but mostly because they think it actually is the legal situation from Rome. Most folks here do not check out
Canon Law.
Those that do know it is legally correct to receive communion by kneeling just remain silent.

Tourists will have no idea what the norm is at our church except by observing what the locals do. But this does not guarantee that newcomers will not kneel on occasion.
How they react is unpredictable. Of course causing a scene or the possibility of scandal
is not welcomed.

In most cases, talking directly to the parish priest to try to resolve amicably the situation
would seem best but here that avenue is not available as the PP refuses to discuss the situation with me.

Anyway, thank you for the exchanges.
God Bless
Neil

 

[Augustine3]

Although it was the lady’s right to receive communion kneeling, perhaps it was imprudent of her to remain kneeling for a further 3 minutes.

Some said “let’s give her the benefit of the doubt” and “let’s not judge her”. I have been in a similar situation and the priest asked me to stand. I know if I continued to kneel for an additional 3 minutes I would really have to guard myself against the temptation of spiritual pride under the guise of humility.

What about the 4th commandment to Honour Your Father and Mother? The priest, her spiritual father asked her to stand; if she stood up would that have harmed or dishonoured the dignity of the Holy Eucharist? No. If Mary saw Jesus in the temple praying on his knees and asked him stand to pray, would He have denied her?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Although it was the lady’s right to receive communion kneeling, perhaps it was imprudent of her to remain kneeling for a further 3 minutes.

Some said “let’s give her the benefit of the doubt” and “let’s not judge her”. I have been in a similar situation and the priest asked me to stand. I know if I continued to kneel for an additional 3 minutes I would really have to guard myself against the temptation of spiritual pride under the guise of humility.

What about the 4th commandment to Honour Your Father and Mother? The priest, her spiritual father asked her to stand; if she stood up would that have harmed or dishonoured the dignity of the Holy Eucharist? No. If Mary saw Jesus in the temple praying on his knees and asked him stand to pray, would He have denied her?

Well, first, we’re relying on an observer’s conception of time (I don’t think a stopwatch or anything was used). It could have been less than ‘3 minutes’. Or it could have been 3 minutes or more.

And we don’t know the mind of the woman kneeling. Sometimes if something happens to me that I don’t expect, I am so shocked or stunned that it takes me a while to, well, move or respond. What if that’s what happened to the woman? What if she was thinking,"wait, what’s happening, I don’t understand, this has never happened to me, did I misunderstand the priest, what should I do now, God, I don’t know what to do, my legs feel a little shaky, I don’t want to fall down, I’m so confused, I’m so hurt, was I wrong? Should I say something after? I just wanted to receive You, Lord, but was I wrong? What should I do? Should I apologize? Am I in the way? I don’t want to cause any trouble. . . Where should I go? . . ".Get the idea? That’s a lot to process and take in.

 

[zab]

Hello,
Can anyone please advise me on this issue.
A week before Christmas one of the priests at our parish church refused to give Holy Communion to a woman who was kneeling. She was the last person in line so was not causing any obstruction to people. She was refused by the priest. He asked her to stand, She refused. Then to my shock he tried to force her to stand by grabbing her arm.
I was serving as Eucharistic minister at hat particular mass. She continued to refuse to stand. HE then rushed away from her. She remained kneeling for a long 3 more minutes or so.
It was heart-rending to see her. The priest claimed t was in the rules of the Catholic Bishops Conference of Japan that people had to stand as he rushed away from her.
But this is not so. The guidelines for Japan clearly say not to refuse anyone who is kneeling.

Then last Saturday week my English friend visiting Japan from South Korea came to mass at our parish church and he was refused the Holy Communion because he was kneeling. In this case it was our parish priest. However my friend decide to stand when requested by the priest.

But when I was leaving the church this parish priest essentially admonished me for my friend’s kneeling behaviour and with that my friend came over to us and told the priest that he was in error about kneeling. The priest said he was not. In the short exchange, the priest went on to tel my friend never to come back to our church even as my friend was being polite but firm with him in this exchange. My friend turned away and the this priest spoke disparagingly to me about my friend. He also made clear in the exchange that he did not want to receive any emails from me nor my friend that would show he was in error. I finally spoke and defended my friend as being an honourable person and that in fact the priest was in error.
In all of this this priest was very rude.

Both of these experiences have left me with a feeling of shock and frankly disgust.
The priests are from America as we are an international Catholic Church.

There have been other issues too including heterdoxical teachings.

But right now, the immediate reason I write this message is to ask for advice from anyone about what to do.
I know Canon Law says contact our local bishop who is Japanese but what if the bishop here does not take any action?

Another question is has anyone ever had such an experience with priests who behave like this?
I am still trying to come to terms with their behaviour.
Am I wring to believe that they are in error, that their behaviour seems mist un-Christ-like and all this in the Jubilee Year of Mercy?

God Bless
Neil

Since your parish priest (pastor?) has made it clear that he does not want to talk to you about it, nor receive any letters or email on this topic, my advice to you is to take the next step and write to your bishop. Do not be afraid that he may not take action. Most likely you will receive a response from the bishop’s office but be aware that it could take a few weeks even months to receive a reply. Listen to the advice that you receive from the bishop. Until then, I would do as your parish priest tells you. As far as your friends are concerned, if it is a matter of receiving Jesus or being right, I would choose to receive Jesus.

 

[Augustine3]

Well, first, we’re relying on an observer’s conception of time (I don’t think a stopwatch or anything was used). It could have been less than ‘3 minutes’. Or it could have been 3 minutes or more.

And we don’t know the mind of the woman kneeling. Sometimes if something happens to me that I don’t expect, I am so shocked or stunned that it takes me a while to, well, move or respond. What if that’s what happened to the woman? What if she was thinking,"wait, what’s happening, I don’t understand, this has never happened to me, did I misunderstand the priest, what should I do now, God, I don’t know what to do, my legs feel a little shaky, I don’t want to fall down, I’m so confused, I’m so hurt, was I wrong? Should I say something after? I just wanted to receive You, Lord, but was I wrong? What should I do? Should I apologize? Am I in the way? I don’t want to cause any trouble. . . Where should I go? . . ".Get the idea? That’s a lot to process and take in.

I get the idea but I humbly disagree with you.

Your argument is possible but improbable…was she shocked? Perhaps but not for approx. 3 minutes on her knees…

 

[Reuben_J]

Once again Reuben, thank you.

Your summary is exactly the situation we have here. It is indeed a personality issue.
People are too afraid to confront the parish priest even if there are things being done which they feel are wrong. There are two sides. Those who support him and those who are too fearful to raise the issue and who remain silent. Those who have tried to confront him, find no compromise is possible, have left our congregation and moved on to other parishes.

I guess this situation will remain thus for the near future.

Talking a little more philosophically about the issue of trying to receive communion by kneeling, and being refused, this would seem to put the communicant on the same level as those people who cannot receive communion because they are divorced or because they support abortion.
It just seems rather ironic to me that in this situation ‘kneelers’ could be treated as though they were say supporters of abortion.
Just thinking aloud here.

I have been trying to gain a deeper knowledge of our faith to help defend the Church.
I had thought the battlegrounds would be with atheists but never expected that
I would be writing a difficult situation here with a Catholic priest.

Anyway, I am grateful to have had a chance to air this experience and to have had
fresh ideas and (name removed by moderator)ut as to how to go forward.

Many thanks and God Bless
Neil

I can understand how you guys have to endure the situation which is not agreeable to you. We have undergone such experiences and especially as church leaders, one can take it quite personal especially if one is pushing for a personal agenda.

No, I am not saying that you are. It is quite a legitimate complain. On the other hand, if the issue is just about receiving Communion standing, well, it could be an emotional thing but it is not the end of the world. You all still can receive it standing and I do not agree that those who prefer kneeling are akin to being divorced or supporters of abortion. Goodness, Neil, isn’t that taking it too far?

Bottom line, they still can receive Communion albeit standing, the posture that is not their preference, but they still can receive Jesus. And they would not receive Him any less. Jesus would sure understand their situation; it is not their fault, it is the priest that did not want to give them Communion kneeling down.

We have known better and in a situation where there are differences with the local clergies, the best thing to do is just be nice to them. Show that you support them. They have probably more headache than you do. Bring/invite them to dinner; support them in their pet projects. Sometimes kindness will go a long way. Many times it is a matter of understanding and trust. That will usually come with friendship. Priests are people too. At least we have family – wives, children. For them, their families are the parishioners. Love them. And eventually, it is easier to work together. When things are done on the decision of one who makes it, usually it is not cast in stone. Good relationship is usually a good ice breaker, to break stubbornness and unopeness.

That is the reason why I do not agree with what the woman did. She might have a valid reason of her own but her action is deemed a defiant of the celebrant. That would be the last thing for the priest, who has already made up his mind, to relent to her request.

I am not telling you what to do but as one Catholic to another, I can only say that much. Love that priest, which is very scriptural, and see what happen. St Paul says love never fail. In any case that is our way, the small and the narrow road, not the easy one which human likes to go through.

God bless.

Reuben.

 

[Augustine3]

I can understand how you guys have to endure the situation which is not agreeable to you. We have undergone such experiences and especially as church leaders, one can take it quite personal especially if one is pushing for a personal agenda.

No, I am not saying that you are. It is quite a legitimate complain. On the other hand, if the issue is just about receiving Communion standing, well, it could be an emotional thing but it is not the end of the world. You all still can receive it standing and I do not agree that those who prefer kneeling are akin to being divorced or supporters of abortion. Goodness, Neil, isn’t that taking it too far?

Bottom line, they still can receive Communion albeit standing, the posture that is not their preference, but they still can receive Jesus. And they would not receive Him any less. Jesus would sure understand their situation; it is not their fault, it is the priest that did not want to give them Communion kneeling down.

We have known better and in a situation where there are differences with the local clergies, the best thing to do is just be nice to them. Show that you support them. They have probably more headache than you do. Bring/invite them to dinner; support them in their pet projects. Sometimes kindness will go a long way. Many times it is a matter of understanding and trust. That will usually come with friendship. Priests are people too. At least we have family – wives, children. For them, their families are the parishioners. Love them. And eventually, it is easier to work together. When things are done on the decision of one who makes it, usually it is not cast in stone. Good relationship is usually a good ice breaker, to break stubbornness and unopeness.

That is the reason why I do not agree with what the woman did. She might have a valid reason of her own but her action is deemed a defiant of the celebrant. That would be the last thing for the priest, who has already made up his mind, to relent to her request.

I am not telling you what to do but as one Catholic to another, I can only say that much. Love that priest, which is very scriptural, and see what happen. St Paul says love never fail. In any case that is our way, the small and the narrow road, not the easy one which human likes to go through.

God bless.

Reuben.

Well said!

 

[graciew]

The procession is moving forward exactly as the Church intents, with the recipient choosing if they wish to stand or to kneel.

The invitation that the priest extents includes, by definition, those who wish to kneel to receive.

You might, as you state, prefer that everyone comply with your view on how the procession proceed, but they are under no obligation for them to do so.

Certainly not.
Only just bear in mind procession implies moving along and not remaining kneeling or standing in front if the altar.
So a procession, procedes.
But I will let go. Never seen anything even close.to this situation in all my life. Not even an issue ever at Mass.

 

[naylordaisy]

I can understand how you guys have to endure the situation which is not agreeable to you. We have undergone such experiences and especially as church leaders, one can take it quite personal especially if one is pushing for a personal agenda.

Thanks as always for taking time to reply.

No, I am not saying that you are. It is quite a legitimate complain. On the other hand, if the issue is just about receiving Communion standing, well, it could be an emotional thing but it is not the end of the world. You all still can receive it standing and I do not agree that those who prefer kneeling are akin to being divorced or supporters of abortion. Goodness, Neil, isn’t that taking it too far?

No I don’t think kneelers are on the same level as those who support abortion, say. It is just that it can look like they are being penalized in a similar way just because they have knelt down.

Bottom line, they still can receive Communion albeit standing, the posture that is not their preference, but they still can receive Jesus. And they would not receive Him any less. Jesus would sure understand their situation; it is not their fault, it is the priest that did not want to give them Communion kneeling down.

That’s true.

We have known better and in a situation where there are differences with the local clergies, the best thing to do is just be nice to them. Show that you support them. They have probably more headache than you do. Bring/invite them to dinner; support them in their pet projects. Sometimes kindness will go a long way. Many times it is a matter of understanding and trust. That will usually come with friendship. Priests are people too. At least we have family – wives, children. For them, their families are the parishioners. Love them. And eventually, it is easier to work together. When things are done on the decision of one who makes it, usually it is not cast in stone. Good relationship is usually a good ice breaker, to break stubbornness and unopeness.

Yes all true too.
For over three years now, I and others have made efforts to be so.
Even as over time I could see other questionable activities, I remained silent and even have been praying for our PP. He is also in pain in recent months because of hip problems where IU suggested to my elder priest friend there that prayers be offered in the Book of Intentions for our PP.
It has been a challenge to pray for the PP to be honest considering the behaviour I have see over the past three years (charity prevents me from listing them here) but that is one of the challenges of our faith.
I had to do much wrestling with myself to even start writing this thread in the first place.
What finally got me writing here and to my EMHC manager is the thought that doing nothing and remaining silent may just be as bad. Our faith says it is an act of mercy to another person to help him/her see their faults and weaknesses.
Of course we must also see our faults too lest we become arrogant.
So a bit of an inner struggle for me as to what course of action to take.
Is this the Lord challenging me with such situations? Those type of thoughts come to mind.

That is the reason why I do not agree with what the woman did. She might have a valid reason of her own but her action is deemed a defiant of the celebrant. That would be the last thing for the priest, who has already made up his mind, to relent to her request.

Yes of course it can seen this way too.
I think the question though leads to what if such situations happen again with other people and that it can be unpredictable as to how they react.
The challenge would be to try and reduce the possibility of future ‘confrontations’.
Unfortunately my PP made it clear that he is not interested in discussion on this topic.

I am not telling you what to do but as one Catholic to another, I can only say that much. Love that priest, which is very scriptural, and see what happen. St Paul says love never fail. In any case that is our way, the small and the narrow road, not the easy one which human likes to go through.

As I indicated above, I do pray for him and have been silent till now about what I have seen.
I have been trying to avoid getting involved in any controversial issue with him and largely just try to be as polite as possible to him whenever I see in the church building.

After he banned my friend (not the woman, the person involved in the second incident) from coming to the church that day, I felt I had to speak up for my friend.
Anyway, there you have it.

God bless.

Reuben.

Cheers and God Bless
Neil

 

[zab]

Cheers and God Bless
Neil

Just a tip- Above the reply box are things that you can do such as changing the font, color of of text, bold, italicized, indent, quote etc. It would help if you at least changed the color of your responses so we could know your response from the post you are responding too.

 

[naylordaisy]

Just a tip- Above the reply box are things that you can do such as changing the font, color of of text, bold, italicized, indent, quote etc. It would help if you at least changed the color of your responses so we could know your response from the post you are responding too.

Sorry about that.
I thought the system allowed for also comments on a paragraph-by-paragraph basis.

I will resend my previous response as a separate integral response shortly.

Many thanks
Neil

 

[zab]

Sorry about that.
I thought the system allowed for also comments on a paragraph-by-paragraph basis.

I will resend my previous response as a separate integral response shortly.

Many thanks
Neil

You still have a little time to delete the old post. top of edit page.

 

[naylordaisy]

I can understand how you guys have to endure the situation which is not agreeable to you. We have undergone such experiences and especially as church leaders, one can take it quite personal especially if one is pushing for a personal agenda.

No, I am not saying that you are. It is quite a legitimate complain. On the other hand, if the issue is just about receiving Communion standing, well, it could be an emotional thing but it is not the end of the world. You all still can receive it standing and I do not agree that those who prefer kneeling are akin to being divorced or supporters of abortion. Goodness, Neil, isn’t that taking it too far?

Bottom line, they still can receive Communion albeit standing, the posture that is not their preference, but they still can receive Jesus. And they would not receive Him any less. Jesus would sure understand their situation; it is not their fault, it is the priest that did not want to give them Communion kneeling down.

We have known better and in a situation where there are differences with the local clergies, the best thing to do is just be nice to them. Show that you support them. They have probably more headache than you do. Bring/invite them to dinner; support them in their pet projects. Sometimes kindness will go a long way. Many times it is a matter of understanding and trust. That will usually come with friendship. Priests are people too. At least we have family – wives, children. For them, their families are the parishioners. Love them. And eventually, it is easier to work together. When things are done on the decision of one who makes it, usually it is not cast in stone. Good relationship is usually a good ice breaker, to break stubbornness and unopeness.

That is the reason why I do not agree with what the woman did. She might have a valid reason of her own but her action is deemed a defiant of the celebrant. That would be the last thing for the priest, who has already made up his mind, to relent to her request.

I am not telling you what to do but as one Catholic to another, I can only say that much. Love that priest, which is very scriptural, and see what happen. St Paul says love never fail. In any case that is our way, the small and the narrow road, not the easy one which human likes to go through.

God bless.

Reuben.

Thanks as always for taking time to reply.
No I don’t think kneelers are on the same level as those who support abortion, say. It is just that it can look like they are being penalised in a similar way just because they have knelt down.

For over three years now, I and others have made efforts to be patient and forgiving of a host of different issues.
There are those who left our parish cherub because they had had enough. This includes two other priests who had issues with the PP.

Even as over time I could see other questionable activities, I remained silent and even have been praying for our PP. He is also in pain in recent months because of hip problems where I suggested to my elder priest friend here that prayers be offered in the Book of Intentions for our PP.
It has been a challenge to pray for the PP to be honest considering the behaviour I have seen over the past three years (charity prevents me from listing them here) but that is one of the challenges of our faith.
I had to do much wrestling with myself to even start writing this thread in the first place.
What finally got me writing here and to my EMHC manager is the thought that doing nothing and remaining silent may just be as bad. Our faith says it is an act of mercy to another person to help him/her see their faults and weaknesses.
Of course we must also see our faults too lest we become arrogant.
So a bit of an inner struggle for me as to what course of action to take.
Is this the Lord challenging me with such situations? Those type of thoughts come to mind.

Whatever about the woman who remained kneeling, and the second occasion where my friend was refused communion till he stood up,
I think the question leads to what if such situations happen again with other people and that it can be unpredictable as to how they react.
The challenge would be to try and reduce the possibility of future ‘confrontations’.
Unfortunately my PP made it clear that he is not interested in discussion on this topic, at least with men anyway.

As I indicated above, I do pray for him and have been silent till now about what I have seen.
I have been trying to avoid getting involved in any controversial issue with him and largely just try to be as polite as possible to him whenever I see him in the church building.

After he banned my friend (not the woman, the person involved in the second incident) from coming to the church that day, I felt I had to speak up for my friend.
Anyway, there you have it.

God Bless
Neil

 

[LongingSoul]

Thank you folks for these insights.
In the second incident regarding my male friend, he actually did stand up after the PP requested him to so as to avoid any problems. He was obedient even though he knew the PP was wrong.

Whatever about the woman choosing to remain kneeling or another person deciding it is best to stand upon request, overall the issue remains.

Most regular parishioners here have accepted the position of the PP but mostly because they think it actually is the legal situation from Rome. Most folks here do not check out
Canon Law.
Those that do know it is legally correct to receive communion by kneeling just remain silent.

Tourists will have no idea what the norm is at our church except by observing what the locals do. But this does not guarantee that newcomers will not kneel on occasion.
How they react is unpredictable. Of course causing a scene or the possibility of scandal
is not welcomed.

In most cases, talking directly to the parish priest to try to resolve amicably the situation
would seem best but here that avenue is not available as the PP refuses to discuss the situation with me.

Anyway, thank you for the exchanges.
God Bless
Neil

Is your male friend from a congregation or culture that kneels for Communion or does he identify as ‘traditionalist’ fairly exclusively making his choice to kneel a statement to that effect?

 

[CatholicRaven]

Is your male friend from a congregation or culture that kneels for Communion or does he identify as ‘traditionalist’ fairly exclusively making his choice to kneel a statement to that effect?

I don’t think we should be attempting to read minds and assign motive/intent here.

In practice, it generally wouldn’t matter–the priest isn’t likely going to be able to tell outwardly which it is, and therefore should not be denying the Eucharist to those who kneel to receive, simply because they are kneeling.

If the priest has other reasons for denial of the Sacrament, that is generally between that person, the priest, and God. I don’t know if this priest had other reasons. However, I still think this should be brought (charitably) to the attention of the Bishop, because the priests’ words and actions are confusing people, and the priest refuses to discuss the issue to clarify.

 

[LongingSoul]

I don’t think we should be attempting to read minds and assign motive/intent here.

In practice, it generally wouldn’t matter–the priest isn’t likely going to be able to tell outwardly which it is, and therefore should not be denying the Eucharist to those who kneel to receive, simply because they are kneeling.

If the priest has other reasons for denial of the Sacrament, that is generally between that person, the priest, and God. I don’t know if this priest had other reasons. However, I still think this should be brought (charitably) to the attention of the Bishop, because the priests’ words and actions are confusing people, and the priest refuses to discuss the issue to clarify.

But really I think by making an issue of the incident the OP and friend are ascribing motives to the Priest. Diocese’ have the power to decide a norm for reception of Communion in accordance with a number of considerations. One of the considerations is ‘restorationist’ agitators and I know that from local experience. I know myself if I was choosing a position outside the norm because I loved the tradition of kneeling, I would be very careful to respect the legitimate norm in the spirit of obedience and humility, if asked to stand in an unfamiliar parish but that parish Priest.

I think that it is interesting that Pope Benedict devised the guideline for the kneeling allowance because whether inadvertently or cannily, it exposes the true traditionalists from traditionalist ideologues.

 

[zab]

But really I think by making an issue of the incident the OP and friend are ascribing motives to the Priest. Diocese’ have the power to decide a norm for reception of Communion in accordance with a number of considerations. One of the considerations is ‘restorationist’ agitators and I know that from local experience. I know myself if I was choosing a position outside the norm because I loved the tradition of kneeling, I would be very careful to respect the legitimate norm in the spirit of obedience and humility, if asked to stand in an unfamiliar parish but that parish Priest.

I think that it is interesting that Pope Benedict devised the guideline for the kneeling allowance because whether inadvertently or cannily, it exposes the true traditionalists from traditionalist ideologues.

Where is the source for the guideline you are referring to? When the Sacred Congregation clarified that a communicant should not be refused Communion for kneeling nor should they be accused of disobedience, they (the Sacred Congregation) did not take away the bishops authority to set the posture nor did they require that a choice of postures be made available. The set posture is to stand. Any choice that may occur is a personal decision made by some communicants and by some pastors whether or not to provide kneeling aids. Pope Benedict chose to provide a prie dieu and those who were privileged to receive Communion from the pope, ( Pope Benedict) were asked to kneel.

 

[CatholicRaven]

But really I think by making an issue of the incident the OP and friend are ascribing motives to the Priest.

I agree with you that we cannot assume the priest’s intent, either. And perhaps the woman and/or the OP’s friend could have chosen better responses, I don’t know.

However, this priest’s actions have confused his parishioners, regardless of his intent. At least twice these issues have happened publicly. Other priests in the same parish/diocese don’t make an issue of someone kneeling to receive. The priest has stated that he (understandably) does not want to discuss it further–but this is not a private issue anymore (if it ever was). If this is a misunderstanding about a communicant’s right to kneel to receive, and it is not corrected, then similar events are very likely to happen in the future. That is why I think the Bishop should be notified of the facts (not assumptions about motive or subjective opinion, etc.) and asked to clarify what the appropriate practice should be.

Contacting the Bishop should not be about trying to get the priest “in trouble.” It’s about protecting the rights of the members of the Church, and about not causing scandal.

 

[zab]

I agree with you that we cannot assume the priest’s intent, either. And perhaps the woman and/or the OP’s friend could have chosen better responses, I don’t know.

However, this priest’s actions have confused his parishioners, regardless of his intent. At least twice these issues have happened publicly. Other priests in the same parish/diocese don’t make an issue of someone kneeling to receive. The priest has stated that he (understandably) does not want to discuss it further–but this is not a private issue anymore (if it ever was). If this is a misunderstanding about a communicant’s right to kneel to receive, and it is not corrected, then similar events are very likely to happen in the future. That is why I think the Bishop should be notified of the facts (not assumptions about motive or subjective opinion, etc.) and asked to clarify what the appropriate practice should be.

Contacting the Bishop should not be about trying to get the priest “in trouble.” It’s about protecting the rights of the members of the Church, and about not causing scandal.

Good post.

 

[naylordaisy]

I agree with you that we cannot assume the priest’s intent, either. And perhaps the woman and/or the OP’s friend could have chosen better responses, I don’t know.

However, this priest’s actions have confused his parishioners, regardless of his intent. At least twice these issues have happened publicly. Other priests in the same parish/diocese don’t make an issue of someone kneeling to receive. The priest has stated that he (understandably) does not want to discuss it further–but this is not a private issue anymore (if it ever was). If this is a misunderstanding about a communicant’s right to kneel to receive, and it is not corrected, then similar events are very likely to happen in the future. That is why I think the Bishop should be notified of the facts (not assumptions about motive or subjective opinion, etc.) and asked to clarify what the appropriate practice should be.

Contacting the Bishop should not be about trying to get the priest “in trouble.” It’s about protecting the rights of the members of the Church, and about not causing scandal.

Thank you Amy.
I cannot speak for the Filipino woman as to her motives as I do not know her. We have a large Filipino community here but we also have many Filipinos who visit Japan that come to our church. I am told that in the Philippines it is very common for people to kneel. I did not recognise this woman so I cannot say if she was visiting or if she is resident here in Japan and at our church for the first time.
But trying to figure out someone’s motives in a live situation is next to impossible if we don’t know the person. My assumption was that this was her way to receive holy communion because that is how she was brought up.

As for my male friend, he is from the UK but based in South Korea. He was visiting Japan for a week and I had not seen him for 3 years. He is a devout Catholic and for him
kneeling shows the greatest respect to your Lord and it is the very minimum our Lord is due. He did not come with an agenda. When the parish priest asked him to stand, he did so and could receive holy communion.
That would have been the end of it except that as I was leaving the church after mass,
the parish priest reprimanded me because my friend had knelt. As I mentioned I did not know this had happened at the time as I was not sitting with my friend. The parish priest saw us come to the main chapel though, before mass ,with two of our other friends so he knew we were friends.
As the parish priest was reprimanding me, my friend who was waiting for me outside came over and he and the PP began a discussion on the rights of kneeling.
It was a very civil yet firm discourse from my friend but the PP ended up telling him not to come to our church anymore. So it was then I spoke up.

In all of this, your observation about confusion and what happens if such an incident should occur again, is spot on.
It is for these reasons that I wished to get advice from others, not just from this list, so as to know how to resolve this peacefully. I spoke with another priest from another nearby bigger parish last night and he was genuinely shocked at what happened.
He acknowledged that I was in a difficult situation as to whether I should stay in my parish church or leave for another parish.

It would be best to be able to charitably discuss this with the PP but as I said he shut the door to this avenue. I will try again through third parties and have made one attempt
already via our EMHC manager. But the PP has not responded.

If finally these attempts come to no avail I will contact our Bishop and if necessary Cardinal Sarah who is in charge of such issues in Rome.

God Bless
Neil

p.s. Every Sunday we greet newcomers to our church at the end of mass. We have folks every week from different parts of the word from the US, Europe and Asia and Australia.