Priest's Suits and Cassocks

[Young_Thinker]

You are correct for today’s attire, but a lot of these pieces of clothing started in the late 1700s and early 1800s and they followed the attire of the lay people (e.g. soutane). A greca or cappotto is just a name for an overcoat, not a special clerical grab.

The fact that these names are commonly used it is probably because the Church, like the army, tends to standardize different aspects of the attire of its people. A lot of similar names were standard in the armies of the different states that preceded the unification of Italy in 1860.

I think that today a lot of these pieces of clothing are more part of a tradition (e.g. biretta) than a useful function., the same of some regalia in army uniforms. I still think that it is a real pity to loose some of these traditions/clothing/regalia because of simple convenience.

I certainly agree.

 

[Catholicben]

… At that moment the novice can wear the habit at any time. They may also where the Roman Collar while ministering in a setting where the habit is unacceptable. …

When in the world would a habit be “unacceptable”?

 

[MarkThompson]

When in the world would a habit be “unacceptable”?

China?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

When in the world would a habit be “unacceptable”?

Hospital and jail settings the habit is unacceptable, just to name two.

Both for safety reasons.

 

[GIR]

I have attended the FSSP Mass for 8 years now, and have never seen our priests without cassocks. I personally feel it’s a strong statement in our modern world - our priests wear a sign of their allegiance, and live their vocation. It’s like seeing the leader of an army in battle array.

I don’t know if I said that right.

I wholeheartedly agree. These days it’s like wearing a sign that says “pedophile”, but that’s all the more reason to wear it and invite discussion about the Truth.

 

[malphono]

Hospital and jail settings the habit is unacceptable, just to name two.

Both for safety reasons.

The habit (or cassock, as the case may be) may be impractical in those settings in the US, but it is certainly not “unacceptable” any more than is one of those dismal tongue-depressor shirts. We both know that the habit (or cassock, as the case may be) is still worn elsewhere, even in those settings.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

The habit (or cassock, as the case may be) may be impractical in those settings in the US, but it is certainly not “unacceptable” any more than is one of those dismal tongue-depressor shirts. We both know that the habit (or cassock, as the case may be) is still worn elsewhere, even in those settings.

Most jails and hospitals do not allow the habit to be worn. It is unsafe.

I will leave it at that and we will just have to agree to disagree.

I also do not like your “dismal tongue-depressor shirt” comment, it is a clerical shirt and is acceptable garb for secular clergy as well as for religious without a habit or those with a habit who can not wear it for some reason (I do not say good reason because it is not for you to decide what a “good” reason is, it is up to the individual religious, his superior, and community to decide that).

 

[malphono]

Most jails and hospitals do not allow the habit to be worn. It is unsafe.

I will leave it at that and we will just have to agree to disagree.

It’s no more “unsafe” than a rabbi wearing a kippa and a talith, or a Buddhist in his saffron robes, etc. I’d like to see an institution in the US prohibit them from wearing those: the law suits would go on for years and the institution would lose. And as I said earlier, habits and cassocks are worn in such venues elsewhere, so yes, we will have to agree to disagree on that.

I also do not like your “dismal tongue-depressor shirt” comment, it is a clerical shirt and is acceptable garb for secular clergy as well as for religious without a habit or those with a habit who can not wear it for some reason (I do not say good reason because it is not for you to decide what a “good” reason is, it is up to the individual religious, his superior, and community to decide that).

Let’s just say I have better reasons than you might think to comment on those dreadful shirts, and leave it at that. I’m not even all that thrilled with pontiff collars or rabats, but at least they are more presentable in lieu of habit or cassock. In any case, apparently we will have to agree to disagree on that point as well.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

It’s no more “unsafe” than a rabbi wearing a kippa and a talith, or a Buddhist in his saffron robes, etc. I’d like to see an institution in the US prohibit them from wearing those: the law suits would go on for years and the institution would lose. And as I said earlier, habits and cassocks are worn in such venues elsewhere, so yes, we will have to agree to disagree on that.

Let’s just say I have better reasons than you might think to comment on those dreadful shirts, and leave it at that. I’m not even all that thrilled with pontiff collars or rabats, but at least they are more presentable in lieu of habit or cassock. In any case, apparently we will have to agree to disagree on that point as well.

For me to leave it at that then you must leave the issue of habits being unsafe in certain circumstances.

Again, it is not for you or any lay person to decide.

 

[malphono]

For me to leave it at that then you must leave the issue of habits being unsafe in certain circumstances.

Again, it is not for you or any lay person to decide.

I said best to leave it. My my reasons are, and will remain, my own. I’ll say nothing further.

 

[jeanannemarie]

Is it being said here that it is illegal to go to all or some hospitals and jails in the USA wearing a cassock? I do not want to misunderstand anything.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Is it being said here that it is illegal to go to all or some hospitals and jails in the USA wearing a cassock? I do not want to misunderstand anything.

I never said it was illegal.

Hospitals and jails have guidelines that those who work there must follow.

Many do not allow the wearing of flowing cloths, like cassocks and most habits, for safety concerns. So those who work there and minister there can not wear them.

The safety issues are…

In a hospital the cloths are in issue for blood born pathogens and can carry infections. If they are exposed then one can take it home and infect others in the community as well as themselves and others they visit in the hospital.

In a jail (or a psych ward of a hospital) the cassock and habit are easy for prisoners and patients to get a hold of and they restrict quick movement when it is necessary.

So for safety concerns most of these institutions do not allow them, a clerical shirt with a roman collar is identification enough and can serve as a witness as well as a cassock or habit.

But in the end it is up to the individual religious/secular clergy what they will wear and in regards to clerical dress and the only ones who can truly object are the superiors.

In my community we have our habit but we are allowed to wear a clerical shirt. I do so on occasion when my habit is dirty and I have not been able to wash it (I only have one habit) or when I need to due to a medical condition.

 

[Chatter163]

I never said it was illegal.

Hospitals and jails have guidelines that those who work there must follow.

Many do not allow the wearing of flowing cloths, like cassocks and most habits, for safety concerns. So those who work there and minister there can not wear them.

The safety issues are…

In a hospital the cloths are in issue for blood born pathogens and can carry infections. If they are exposed then one can take it home and infect others in the community as well as themselves and others they visit in the hospital.

In a jail (or a psych ward of a hospital) the cassock and habit are easy for prisoners and patients to get a hold of and they restrict quick movement when it is necessary.

So for safety concerns most of these institutions do not allow them, a clerical shirt with a roman collar is identification enough and can serve as a witness as well as a cassock or habit.

Granted, most priests do not wear cassocks to a hospital (mine do), but I have never heard of any hospital that would prohibit them from dong so…

With traditional Muslims and certain other religious groups that might wear specific garb, especially for females, I believe that the fear of a discrimination claims and resulting bad publicity would discourage any hospital from making such a rule.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Granted, most priests do not wear cassocks to a hospital (mine do), but I have never heard of any hospital that would prohibit them from dong so…

Having never heard of these rules does not mean they do not exist it just means that they have not been told to you as they most likely have nothing to do with you.

Most who minister in the hospital on a regular basis know the rules and abide by them for safety reasons. Again blood born pathogens. This is a class that most who work a significant time in a health care setting are required to take yearly.

With traditional Muslims and certain other religious groups that might wear specific garb, especially for females, I believe that the fear of a discrimination claims and resulting bad publicity would discourage any hospital from making such a rule.

It is not discrimination. It is safety. I know of at least two psych hospitals and every jail I know that has these requirements.

It can not be discrimination when one volunteers. You have a choice, if you do not like the rules one does not volunteer.

But again, it matters not what you or any other lay person thinks of what religious and priests wear. I will follow the guidelines and suggestions of where I chose to minister as long as it does not go against the orders of my superior or against my communities rule and constitutions. Those are what matters.

I could really care less about what others out side of the community think of what I wear.

Having said that, as I stated elsewhere in this thread and on this forum, when I am ministering or when I attend public liturgy I wear my habit but at times I do wear black dress pants with a black clerical shirt with a roman collar (regardless of what others may think of these shirts).

I think I have stated my case well enough to let it be and no longer continue in this discussion.

 

[Young_Thinker]

Granted, most priests do not wear cassocks to a hospital (mine do), but I have never heard of any hospital that would prohibit them from dong so…

But should not a priest be wear a cassock when anointing the sick, if at all possible?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

But should not a priest be wear a cassock when anointing the sick, if at all possible?

A cassock is not called for, it is not liturgical dress necessary for this. A clerical shirt with roman collar can be good enough.

I would see nothing wrong with either.

Also, if the priest is a religious then he would either wear his habit or clerical shirt, a religious priest never wears a cassock unless that is their habit.

Again though, it is easy for lay people to pass judgment on how priests and religious dress when in reality they have no such right to do so.

I know I said in my last post I was done but now I really mean it.

 

[Young_Thinker]

A cassock is not called for, it is not liturgical dress necessary for this. A clerical shirt with roman collar can be good enough.

I would see nothing wrong with either.

Also, if the priest is a religious then he would either wear his habit or clerical shirt, a religious priest never wears a cassock unless that is their habit.

Again though, it is easy for lay people to pass judgment on how priests and religious dress when in reality they have no such right to do so.

I know I said in my last post I was done but now I really mean it.

Very well; I completely understand your perspective.

 

[Chatter163]

It is not discrimination. It is safety. I know of at least two psych hospitals and every jail I know that has these requirements.

It can not be discrimination when one volunteers. You have a choice, if you do not like the rules one does not volunteer.

I never said there was any discrimination; I said a hospital would fear complaints of discrimination and resulting bad publicity.

It can not be discrimination when one volunteers. You have a choice, if you do not like the rules one does not volunteer.

Who said anything about volunteering? I certainly did not. I am thinking of priests and chaplains who visit their flock. You really ought to read more carefully, as you are reading into things ideas that are not there.

Again though, it is easy for lay people to pass judgment on how priests and religious dress when in reality they have no such right to do so.

I must have missed that. Did someone here do so?

 

[jeanannemarie]

I’m glad I asked for clarification. My mind was going in a completely different direction. The idea of “safety issue” immediately made me think of setting oneself up as a sort of target by advertising the priesthood of Catholicism in a cassock. As it turns out, I can see that was not what anyone was referring to at all. I am only posting this to illustrate how quickly things can be misconstrued (especially by me!)

 

[Young_Thinker]

I read before that bishops and cardinals sometimes wear clerical shirts with colored buttons or shirts that are, respectively, purple or red. Does that really occur?