Priest's Suits and Cassocks

  • Thread starter Thread starter Matariel
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I read before that bishops and cardinals sometimes wear clerical shirts with colored buttons or shirts that are, respectively, purple or red. Does that really occur?
Occasionally, yes, but even then it’s more likely a rabat with buttons, and an inset collar (with a splash of color at the bottom). While they may exist, I’ve not seen visible buttons on those depressing shirts with the plastic insert. (The buttons are under the front “tape”.) What I have seen, though, are such shirts in various shades of purple (usually worn by Protestant so-called “bishops”).
 
Occasionally, yes, but even then it’s more likely a rabat with buttons, and an inset collar (with a splash of color at the bottom). While they may exist, I’ve not seen visible buttons on those depressing shirts with the plastic insert. (The buttons are under the front “tape”.) What I have seen, though, are such shirts in various shades of purple (usually worn by Protestant so-called “bishops”).
Thank you. I presume that, if he wishes, a bishop could wear a purple clerical shirt(or the violet vest that is popular among Protestants, as you have said).
 
Thank you. I presume that, if he wishes, a bishop could wear a purple clerical shirt(or the violet vest that is popular among Protestants, as you have said).
I suppose so, but I’ve never seen a bishop (Catholic or Orthodox, for that matter) wear such a shirt. (That doesn’t, of course, mean that it’s never been done, just that I’m unaware of it.) I’ve seen clerics other than bishops wear those shirts in grey or white (not much worse than the black ones, and more comfortable in warmer climates and sin summer), plus a variety of other colors (royal blue, light blue, pale green, etc), normally (but not always) with black trousers. Personally, I am not a fan of those shirts in the first place, but I find the colored ones even less pleasing.

What I have seen (and that so rarely that I can’t recall specifics of who or when) are bishops wearing a purple rabat and pectoral cross with a black suit jacket. Far more common is the black rabat (with or without buttons) with the colored inset at the base of the collar, worn that same way. To my taste, the rabat presents a much more aesthetically pleasing alternative, but of course, as with any vest, it must be worn with a jacket.
 
I suppose so, but I’ve never seen a bishop (Catholic or Orthodox, for that matter) wear such a shirt. (That doesn’t, of course, mean that it’s never been done, just that I’m unaware of it.) I’ve seen clerics other than bishops wear those shirts in grey or white (not much worse than the black ones, and more comfortable in warmer climates and sin summer), plus a variety of other colors (royal blue, light blue, pale green, etc), normally (but not always) with black trousers. Personally, I am not a fan of those shirts in the first place, but I find the colored ones even less pleasing.

What I have seen (and that so rarely that I can’t recall specifics of who or when) are bishops wearing a purple rabat and pectoral cross with a black suit jacket. Far more common is the black rabat (with or without buttons) with the colored inset at the base of the collar, worn that same way. To my taste, the rabat presents a much more aesthetically pleasing alternative, but of course, as with any vest, it must be worn with a jacket.
Exactly.
 
Curiously, though, why do we only see the Pope wearing either a simar or cassock? A white suit with a black clerical vest(while wearing a ring and pectoral cross, of course) or something along those lines would nice sometimes.
 
Curiously, though, why do we only see the Pope wearing either a simar or cassock? A white suit with a black clerical vest(while wearing a ring and pectoral cross, of course) or something along those lines would nice sometimes.
The cassock (or equivalent) is the proper dress of the clergy & religious. While the “clerical suit” (or those shirts of which I am not at all fond) may be common in the US and some other places, it is not all that common in Rome itself. I will admit that “the suit” serves a purpose, but that’s mainly because of societal considerations. But the thought of Benedict XVI wearing such a thing makes me cringe.
 
The cassock (or equivalent) is the proper dress of the clergy & religious. While the “clerical suit” (or those shirts of which I am not at all fond) may be common in the US and some other places, it is not all that common in Rome itself. I will admit that “the suit” serves a purpose, but that’s mainly because of societal considerations. But the thought of Benedict XVI wearing such a thing makes me cringe.
Hahah! I guess that what I am looking for is a little variety in clothing. But maybe by the time a priest becomes Pontiff, he does not care anymore. I know that one’s clothes are certainly not the most important thing in the world. I probably should be ashamed for my worldliness, which I admit is difficult to get rid of. I am in religious/clerical discernment yet I am a strutting dandy by nature(if that makes any sense).
 
Hahah! I guess that what I am looking for is a little variety in clothing. But maybe by the time a priest becomes Pontiff, he does not care anymore. I know that one’s clothes are certainly not the most important thing in the world. I probably should be ashamed for my worldliness, which I admit is difficult to get rid of. I am in religious/clerical discernment yet I am a strutting dandy by nature(if that makes any sense).
Cute. 🙂 And yes, it makes sense (well, sort of …!). OK, yeah, I know what you’re saying. 😉

In any case, to me, at least, there is little that approaches the understated elegance of cassock or habit. The elegance is in its timeless simplicity.
 
Cute. 🙂 And yes, it makes sense (well, sort of …!). OK, yeah, I know what you’re saying. 😉

In any case, to me, at least, there is little that approaches the understated elegance of cassock or habit. The elegance is in its timeless simplicity.
I agree; they are beautiful garments. I wish that more priests wore cassocks in their daily lives. My priest(though this is not meant to disrespect him) appears to be in love with polo-shirts.
 
The cassock (or equivalent) is the proper dress of the clergy & religious. While the “clerical suit” (or those shirts of which I am not at all fond) may be common in the US and some other places, it is not all that common in Rome itself. I will admit that “the suit” serves a purpose, but that’s mainly because of societal considerations. But the thought of Benedict XVI wearing such a thing makes me cringe.
The proper dress for a religious is their habit, not the cassock.
 
Hahah! I guess that what I am looking for is a little variety in clothing. But maybe by the time a priest becomes Pontiff, he does not care anymore. I know that one’s clothes are certainly not the most important thing in the world. I probably should be ashamed for my worldliness, which I admit is difficult to get rid of. I am in religious/clerical discernment yet I am a strutting dandy by nature(if that makes any sense).
Actually, when he was a theology professor, Josef Ratzinger wore a shirt and tie. That’s variety. 😃

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
The proper dress for a religious is their habit, not the cassock.
Brother is right. However, there are religious orders and congregations that never had a habit. Two come to mind right away: The Society of Mary (Marianists) and the Missionary Brothers of Charity (Mother Teresa’s brothers). Then there are the societies such as the Jesuits, who never had a habit. They wore whatever the secular man wore. Their clerics wore the clothing of the diocesan priest (even though the Jesuits are religious) and their brothers wore the clothing of the secular lay man (they too are religios).

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
The proper dress for a religious is their habit, not the cassock.
Yes I know that. It’s precisely why I added the parenthetical “or equivalent” in my earlier post. And while I cannot speak for him, I believe the person addressed know the difference, too.
 
I know that if I was elected pope one of the things I would do is to have all priests wear the cassock and all traditional clerical clothing would be reinstated.
 
Yes I know that. It’s precisely why I added the parenthetical “or equivalent” in my earlier post. And while I cannot speak for him, I believe the person addressed know the difference, too.
Sorry, I apologize, I did not see the “or equivalent”.
 
I read before that bishops and cardinals sometimes wear clerical shirts with colored buttons or shirts that are, respectively, purple or red. Does that really occur?
As others have metioned, this is not the practise in the Catholic Church - at least, in the Latin Church.

The reason why in other denominations bishops wear the purple shirt is because purple has become for them, the de facto colour of the episcopate - thus, more “Catholic minded” or “higher” bishops in those denominations will wear a purple cassock.

However, in the Catholic Church, the clerical suit takes the place of the ordinary day to day cassock or the simar. Both of these are black and only trimmed with the appropriate colour for cardinals and bishops. The fully coloured cassocks are worn with what is called “choir dress” - only if the bishops participates in a liturgical ceremony, especially when he does not celebrate but only assists.
 
Curiously, though, why do we only see the Pope wearing either a simar or cassock? A white suit with a black clerical vest(while wearing a ring and pectoral cross, of course) or something along those lines would nice sometimes.
I suppose it is not really appros to the idea of the Pope as the inherietor of a tradition. i mean, this is why all religious leaders keep their somewhat antiquated garments, is it not? The Dalai Lama does wear a suit either - because the robes link them to something more than just the present.

Besides, the Pope would then look like Benny Hinn or something… ugh…
 
I know that if I was elected pope one of the things I would do is to have all priests wear the cassock and all traditional clerical clothing would be reinstated.
Though actually, outside very Catholic countries like France and Spain, the cassock was never worn on the street. Not even in Rome did the particular law oblige it for secular clergy. What the wore was (surprise, surprise) a clerical suit. Even cardinals, until the end of the 19th century had a special cardinalatial suit, trimmed in scarlet, with red stockings and all.
 
I know that if I was elected pope one of the things I would do is to have all priests wear the cassock and all traditional clerical clothing would be reinstated.
The pope only has that kind of authority over religious, not over the diocesan and other secular clergy. They do not make any vows of obedience to him, only to the local bishop and it is restricted to matters pertaining to ministry, not personal things such as dress. There are some bishops who have dress codes while their priests are on duty. They can do that.

View attachment 8556 If you look around the internet you will find pictures of the pope’s secretary and him walking and praying the rosary. Don Giorgio is wearing a clerical shirt with grey pants and brown shoes. They look grey. 🤷

As far as religious are concerned, the pope can demand whatever he wants of us, under holy obedience, except one thing. He cannot order that religious disobey their rule or their founder. Once the holy rule is approved by a previous pope, it must first be changed by the pope. The pope cannot command against the rule. He would be commanding religious to sin. If the rule and constitutions call for secular dress, then the religious must comply until the rule or constitutions are changed. Some founders prohibited the use of habits or identifying garb.

Mother Teresa forbade it among her male religious and her sisters may only wear the Indian Sari. Males and females have a very explicit mandate that they are to avoid any semblance of European or Western religious life. That’s why their practices and their habit are very Hindu. The brothers are to dress and behave like Indian men, regardless of their national origins or the place where they live and work. If you visit their general house in Rome, they all wear the same white shirt the working Indian man wears, with slacks and sandals. But when you look at the faces they are a mix of Westerners and Indians.

The founder of the Brothers of Mary prohibitted habits way back in the 17th century. They wore the common dress of teachers in their day. The idea was to be anonymous.

St. Vincent de Paul also wrote habits out of the statutes of his Daughters of Charity. They always referred to it as a custom, not a rule. That’s how they got around the point and wore the blue with the coronette. He also mentioned anonymity in their statutes.

For our nuns, St. Clare wrote that the abbess alone should decide what constituted a religious garb. That’s why you do not find two Poor Clare houses that wear the same habit. In each house the abbess decides or calls for the sisters to vote on it.

In the case of our friars, St. Francis said that it had to be a tunic with a hood, but it was not to be rigidly enforced across the order. Each Minister was to decide what was best in keeping with poverty, culture and comfort. When you get a few hundred Franciscan men together you see many variations on the same theme. The one common thread (no pun intended) is the chord. We have worn that since 1209. It began because it was a symbol of chastity. It has been preserved in honor of St. Francis.

The Dominicans, on the other hand, had very explicit directions in their constitutions. St. Dominic described every detail of the habit. However, he too left the priors the freedom to adopt other clothing according to culture and climate.

Any pope who would want to impose some kind of habit on every religious would have to first go back and overrule the founders, which a pope can do. But I doubt that any pope would want to do so.

As far as secular deacons, priests and bishops are concerned, these men are not consecrated men. The dress rules for them are going to depend on the diocesan bishop and only as it pertains to work, not to what they wear when they are off duty. If a pope took to governing the dress of secular deacons, priests and bishops, then he would be imposing something on them that is not appropriate to their secular state.

These matters are not as simple as they appear on the outside. That’s why the Church speaks about them in generalities, allowing each person to act and choose according to the statutes that are appropriate for his state in life.

Father Mitch Pacwa once said it best, “If God had wanted me to be like the friars, he would have called me to be a friar, instead of a clerk regular.” He was responding to someone who called his show and asked a similar question about why the Jesuits were not like the Franciscans on EWTN. I believe that he appeared a little taken aback by the question, almost surprised that a Catholic would not know this answer.

Let’s not make the pope’s job more complicated than it already is.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top