Primacy or Supremacy of the Bishop of Rome

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Randy_Carson said:
the only real interaction I ever see between the EO and Protestants is when they decide to join forces to oppose anything related to the papacy.
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The successor of Peter certainly has his hands full in being the visible sign of unity.
 
Jon_Mallory said:
I think it is because the Roman Church presents a much juicier target. It is more global and so it is the most obvious one to pick on.
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Somehow it always boils down to authority - difficulty trusting authority, rebelling against the authority that exists, whether it is valid or not, and difficulty trusting God sufficiently to submit.

I was reading the post (can’t remember who it was but thanks) with Peter’s admonition to honor the Emperor. Now if he can say that, when Christians were being slaughtered for their faith, how is it that people cannot do the same for the Pope, even if he is less than perfect? To me it boils down to an inability to trust God to work through the authority that exists.

Anyone who has read my posts knows that I can attest there is much dirty laundry in the papacy. I regret the words were ever used that the EO (and in particular Isaiah) is choking over now, but, there they are. Bottom line- can I trust God to keep His promises to the Church, or not?
 
guanophore said:
Somehow it always boils down to authority - difficulty trusting authority, rebelling against the authority that exists, whether it is valid or not, and difficulty trusting God sufficiently to submit.

I was reading the post (can’t remember who it was but thanks) with Peter’s admonition to honor the Emperor. Now if he can say that, when Christians were being slaughtered for their faith, how is it that people cannot do the same for the Pope, even if he is less than perfect? To me it boils down to an inability to trust God to work through the authority that exists.

Anyone who has read my posts knows that I can attest there is much dirty laundry in the papacy. I regret the words were ever used that the EO (and in particular Isaiah) is choking over now, but, there they are. Bottom line- can I trust God to keep His promises to the Church, or not?
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You can trust God’s promises. The question is are you in the Church that He gave those promises to.
 
Isaiah45_9 said:
:rolleyes:

Did I call **him **obscure or the **quote **obscure.

You said I called **him **obscure. I have called no one obscure.
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:ehh:
That quote is definitely obscure or we would have seen it post by you “ad nauseum” in all threads at CAF.
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I had never really looked before, but now that I know Ephraim’s quote is out there… :yup:
 
I would like to apologize for my strong assertion of Rome’s authority. I said some strong words not conducive to calm, steady thinking. I am young and so naturally hot-headed. Forgive me brothers. I should have nothing to say against Orthodoxy. It is not my tradition to critique.
 
Jon_Mallory said:
I would like to apologize for my strong assertion of Rome’s authority. I said some strong words not conducive to calm, steady thinking. I am young and so naturally hot-headed. Forgive me brothers. I should have nothing to say against Orthodoxy. It is not my tradition to critique.
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Ah it’s an internet forum. No one takes it personally (at least they shouldn’t). We say things online we would never say in person.
 
Seraphim73 said:
You can trust God’s promises. The question is are you in the Church that He gave those promises to.
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Even with all the difficulties, I could not bring myself to get out of Peter’s boat.

My studies of the Papacy have led me to conclude that, if God were not protecting the office, the whole thing would have collapsed millenia ago.
 
Seraphim73 said:
Ah it’s an internet forum. No one takes it personally (at least they shouldn’t). We say things online we would never say in person.
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An Orthodox friend told me he met a catholic Franciscan monk while studying abroad in Israel. The monk said the Orthodox Church is like a beautiful woman and Rome her persistent suitor who keeps returning after being friend zoned so often (I made the friend zone up for embellishment).
 
Seraphim73 said:
You can trust God’s promises. The question is are you in the Church that He gave those promises to.
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Im not Guan, but I’d say YES! That reminds me, I have to send an email to my aunt who’s a nun, celebrating her 60th Anniversary. What a blessing she has been to our family unity. Amen.:highprayer:

MJ
 
Jon_Mallory said:
An Orthodox friend told me he met a catholic Franciscan monk while studying abroad in Israel. The monk said the Orthodox Church is like a beautiful woman and Rome her persistent suitor who keeps returning after being friend zoned so often (I made the friend zone up for embellishment).
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And that beautiful woman has always has thing for the bad boy emperor/political leader.
 
Isaiah45_9 said:
Did you read my previous posts with the pertinent sections in regards to the Councils powers?

ETA: Post #551
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Yes I did read it. What is your point? A conciliar movement existed and the spirit of Luther was in the air…dissent. we know. At the time the council was called, there were three claimants to the Papacy (Benedict XIII, Gregory XII and John XXIII). A few years earlier, in one of the first blows to the Conciliar movement, the bishops at the Council of Pisa had deposed the two claimant popes and elected a third pope, claiming that in such a situation, a council of bishops had greater authority than just one bishop, even if he were the bishop of Rome.Which resulted in the below which obviously was scratched quickly by Rome.

Haec Sancta Synodus…
“Legitimately assembled in the holy Spirit, constituting a general council and representing the Catholic church militant, it has power immediately from Christ; and that everyone of whatever state or dignity, even papal, is bound to obey it in those matters which pertain to the faith, the eradication of the said schism and the general reform of the said church of God in head and members.”
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This decree, however, is not considered valid by the Magisterium of the Catholic Church, since it was never approved by Pope Gregory XII or his successors, and was passed by the Council in a session before his confirmation. The Church declared the first sessions of the Council of Constance an invalid and illicit assembly of Bishops, gathered under the authority of John XXIII.
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These are the type of things that happen when we leave you guys alone, I think the Immaculate Conception was approved too. :cool: 🙂
 
Conciliarism was a reform movement in the 14th-, 15th- and 16th-century Catholic Church which held that supreme authority in the Church resided with an Ecumenical council, apart from, or even against, the pope. The movement emerged in response to the Great Western Schism between rival popes in Rome and Avignon. The schism inspired the summoning of the Council of Pisa (1409), which failed to end the schism, and the Council of Constance (1414–1418), which succeeded and proclaimed its own superiority over the Pope. Conciliarism reached its apex with the Council of Basel (1431–1449), which ultimately fell apart. The eventual victor in the conflict was the institution of the Papacy, confirmed by the condemnation of conciliarism at the Fifth Lateran Council, 1512–17. The final gesture however, the doctrine of Papal Infallibility, was not promulgated until the First Vatican Council of 1870.
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google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FConciliarism&ei=WrFtVP-xIJKgyASP7oGoCg&usg=AFQjCNHrs5mYvnvVYkFm4HjeoTLdWm6eRw
 
And yes we know Jesus is the cornerstone. Even Peter said so! 😉 But Jesus said Peter was Rock whom He built His Church upon. And as the great teacher Origen said, “its no small thing He gave Peter the Keys”, to paraphrase
 
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