Primary Reasons for People Becoming Orthodox?

[Harpazo]

Do you have a source for this quote? I would like to read it. Thank you.

Yes, I was wondering the same thing because I remember reading that same quote a while back, but it did not say “left or right.”

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[Religio71]

SO true Whenever I went to Vigil over at St. Nick’s OCA in DC, I went on time, and there were like 5 other people. By the end of it, there were about 20-30. I like that no one makes a production/scene about others coming in later.

 

[Mickey]

I recently heard on Catholic Radio that in order to fulfill the Sunday Obligation in the Roman Catholic Church you have to arrive prior to the Gospel Reading. I wonder what the requirement is in the Orthodox Church?

I heard somewhere that you must be at Divine Liturgy before the reading in order to receive communion. I expect that some priests might say that you should arrive prior to the start of Liturgy and perhaps even orthros. Me and my family are always early–probably because of my Roman Catholic upbringing.

There is no “obligation” in the Orthodox Church. Sunday Liturgy is seen as a “privilege” to attend. And we do not have the concept of the “Saturday eve is the same as Sunday”.

Saturday eve is for vespers.

 

[Ghosty]

SO true Whenever I went to Vigil over at St. Nick’s OCA in DC, I went on time, and there were like 5 other people. By the end of it, there were about 20-30. I like that no one makes a production/scene about others coming in later.

Happens in the Melkite Church as well.

Peace and God bless!

 

[Cecilianus]

I love the Orthodox Church, but punctuality is not a virtue practiced by many there. I can’t recall having seen a liturgy where the congregation at the end of Liturgy wasn’t at least twice as large as at the beginning.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone walk in late to my Ukrainian-rite church. (Although, considering how some of the teenagers are dressed, I wonder why they bother.) Liturgy here is only an hour and a half - at most an hour and forty minutes. I have been told that Orthodox liturgies are a full two hours - is this true, and what is the difference?

 

[Cecilianus]

I heard somewhere that you must be at Divine Liturgy before the reading in order to receive communion. I expect that some priests might say that you should arrive prior to the start of Liturgy and perhaps even orthros. Me and my family are always early–probably because of my Roman Catholic upbringing.

There is no “obligation” in the Orthodox Church. Sunday Liturgy is seen as a “privilege” to attend.

My understanding was that missing Liturgy on holy days of obligation was a mortal sin. I think I read this in Pomozansky’s “Orthodox Dogmatic Theology”, but I don’t really remember.

And we do not have the concept of the “Saturday eve is the same as Sunday”.

Saturday eve is for vespers.

As it should be. For both of us. I never did understand the Novus Ordo custom of putting Sunday morning Liturgy during the time for the vigil.

 

[Mickey]

My understanding was that missing Liturgy on holy days of obligation was a mortal sin. I think I read this in Pomozansky’s “Orthodox Dogmatic Theology”, but I don’t really remember.

I have never heard the term, “holy day of obligation” in the Orthodox Church.

Most Orthodox (and some Eastern Catholics I think) do not separate sins into the category of mortal and venial.

But that is for another thread.

 

[Mickey]

I I have been told that Orthodox liturgies are a full two hours - is this true, and what is the difference?

It could be anywhere from one hour to four hours depending on short cuts, length of homily, and clergy cadence.

 

[Madaglan]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone walk in late to my Ukrainian-rite church. (Although, considering how some of the teenagers are dressed, I wonder why they bother.) Liturgy here is only an hour and a half - at most an hour and forty minutes. I have been told that Orthodox liturgies are a full two hours - is this true, and what is the difference?

The Orthodox Divine Liturgies I’ve been to have all been about 1.25-1.5 hours.

But I’m not surprised if there are Orthodox churches with longer Divine Liturgies. I know that when the Divine Liturgy is immediately preceded with Orthros, the Divine Liturgy itself seems longer.

 

[Madaglan]

My understanding was that missing Liturgy on holy days of obligation was a mortal sin. I think I read this in Pomozansky’s “Orthodox Dogmatic Theology”, but I don’t really remember.

As it should be. For both of us. I never did understand the Novus Ordo custom of putting Sunday morning Liturgy during the time for the vigil.

There really is not the same sense of “Holy Days of Obligation” in the Orthodox Church. However, there is the notion that you need to be engaged in the life of the Church–fasting on fast days, attending Pre-sanctified Liturgy during Lent, going to Vespers on Saturday, regular confession, etc. Some priests will not commune you if you have failed to live up to these.

I’ve heard from my priest and have read that if an Orthodox Christian misses Divine Liturgy for three Sundays without good reason, he receives excommunication (similiar to *latea sententiae *in that it is automatic).

 

[Madaglan]

I heard somewhere that you must be at Divine Liturgy before the reading in order to receive communion. I expect that some priests might say that you should arrive prior to the start of Liturgy and perhaps even orthros. Me and my family are always early–probably because of my Roman Catholic upbringing.

There is no “obligation” in the Orthodox Church. Sunday Liturgy is seen as a “privilege” to attend. And we do not have the concept of the “Saturday eve is the same as Sunday”.

Saturday eve is for vespers.

My priest says before the Gospel. I usually arrive around the time of the readings.

It’s much easier to sneak into an Eastern church, as the priest has his back turned to you.

 

[Mickey]

It’s much easier to sneak into an Eastern church, as the priest has his back turned to you.

 

[Madaglan]

I have a friend that is Eastern Syriac Orthodox, so I asked her about the sign of the cross and here’s what she said:

My last priest, an Eastern Orthodox priest, clarified that when we coordinate making the sign of the cross, the forehead and chest = Father, the right shoulder = Son, left shoulder = Holy Spirit.

Making the right shoulder = “Holy” and the left shoulder = “Spirit” is not exactly correct.

 

[Mickey]

My last priest, an Eastern Orthodox priest, clarified that when we coordinate making the sign of the cross, the forehead and chest = Father, the right shoulder = Son, left shoulder = Holy Spirit.

Making the right shoulder = “Holy” and the left shoulder = “Spirit” is not exactly correct.

I copied this from a website:

We mark ourselves with the Sign of the Cross in this way:

      First we touch our foreheads – this signifies that

God is in heaven and we pray that He will enlighten
our mind

Second, we touch our breast (that is our chest) and
this signifies that God is in our hearts (our feelings)
Or
We touch our belly and thus signify that we believe that Jesus came down to earth from heaven and was made Man in the womb of the Virgin Mary
Or
We touch all the way down to the ground ; we especially sign ourselves in this way during the prayers of the Great Fast of Easter when we also prostrate ourselves or give deep bows in front of God in remembrance of our Lord’s suffering and crucifixion – that is how the Holy Martyrs sealed themselves before the trials and tribulations of their martyrdom.

Next we touch our right shoulder, thus asking our Lord and God and Saviour Jesus Christ to place us at His right hand when He comes to judge the world, but also this reminds us that Christ sits at the right hand of the Father (as we say in the Creed “…And ascended into Heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of the Father…”). Then we touch our left shoulder and by so doing we are asking the Holy Spirit to completely cover us.

By this sealing we are also confirming our own voluntary acceptance of our cross through our faith in God.

 

[jimmy]

I have a friend that is Eastern Syriac Orthodox, so I asked her about the sign of the cross and here’s what she said:

The Syriac Orthodox Church is part of the Oriental Orthodox communion which is distinct from the Eastern Orthodox communion. Many (if not all) Oriental Orthodox cross themselves left to right while the Eastern Orthodox cross themselves right to left.

 

[SingleMomMonica]

What is the primary motivation for those born as Catholic to become Orthodox? I’m primarily thinking of those baptized and raised in the Roman Rite of the Church.

Is it a loss of the sense of the Sacred since Vatican II in the Western Church?
Dissatisfaction with the way the abuse crisis was handled?
Marriage?

God Bless.

 

[chrisb]

It could be anywhere from one hour to four hours depending on short cuts, length of homily, and clergy cadence.

Most modern Divine Liturgies are about 2 hours to 2 and a half hours except on special occasions. I’ve never seen one four hours except for one where Matins was included.

I would hope that ‘length of Liturgy’ didn’t so often to assumed as more holy or more devout. Such outward shows of devotion don’t necessarily show anything about a parish, tradition or people. Most Orthodox, that I know, don’t even show up till well into the actual Liturgy and aren’t present at most of the parishes Vespers, Great Vespers, Vigils, etc. From my experience there seems to be a ‘core’ in each Parish who attend these but the vast majority don’t.

I know at my Catholic Parish, there are multiple Liturgies, Matins said which I simply can’t attend due to my work schedule. It I were to add up the hours, it would be far more than the local Orthodox Parish per week yet I am sure that such is not a measure of holiness and devotion. I see too many Orthodox who pridefully point this out of their own tradition and after inquiring into Orthodoxy myself, I’m not sure why.

Within Orthodoxy I see a trend with outward shows of devotion being assumed to be a measure of inward holiness but I’ve been among Orthodox outside of their Divine Liturgy and I don’t necessarily see the fruit of a life in pursuit of virtue anymore than any other tradition.

That leaves me to believe hat ‘traditions’ don’t us ‘holy’… our own individual participation in God’s Grace makes us holy.

 

[dzheremi]

Only slightly on topic, but the first time I attended a Catholic church for anything other than a funeral was at a small local church in rural Mexico, where the service lasted from about 9 in the morning to…well, I don’t know when…we had to finally leave for lunch around 12:30-1 pm after some people in the group I was with (which was all Protestants, because it was Protestant missionary group) complained that they were hungry and it was taking too long!

It certainly doesn’t prove the holiness of the people involved, but then we should feel blessed to spend as much time in the presence of Christ as possible.

 

[chrisb]

It certainly doesn’t prove the holiness of the people involved, but then we should feel blessed to spend as much time in the presence of Christ as possible.

So an elderly gentleman who can’t attend long services is less holy than someone who attends a very long service? Sounds like the Pharisees… having a outward show of religion but were hypocrites because they did not led holy lives.

I can understand one’s desire to ‘establish’ one’s faith through works but I would be careful that we not assume works for faith.

We are ultimately saved by grace through faith… so that we have no reason to boast. Yet I see the opposite happening here and elsewhere…

As I’ve said before, I can appreciate us attempting to establish our faith through works but that was never to be a show of our works to claim one more holy than another? Yet that is what I see, time and time again.

If you want to see holiness, see it within the Virtue of one another not in the lengths of this prayer or that Liturgy or even the length of this fast or the amounts of that Alms-giving.

Virtue is the fruit of true holiness. The first of these is Humility nor Pride.

 

[dzheremi]

Excuse me, I wasn’t aware you were having an argument. I was just sharing a story. I think I left the oven on…pardon me…